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Post by Bob on Dec 23, 2020 17:10:28 GMT -5
I've got 3 of 12lb ones and 3 of 6lb ones. Not all were bought in the beginning. I started in summer of 2014 and have gradually added. But some are now well over 5 years old and running constantly.
With the lid liners, I've learned how to make them last 2-3 years. When I get the barrel, I grind down the top of the nut to almost nothing, then epoxy some over it to create a very low and smooth bulge under the liner. This really slows down liner wear. But if a hole opens up in the middle, I have learned how to patch it quickly and get another year. So I don't have to replace liners anymore until they are just too thin overall.
My two oldest barrels have had bottoms get so thin in the middle that I felt maybe down to 1mm and I was afraid to run another batch of rough. I've easily poured in new bottoms using in one case a certain version of Liquid Nails, and recently Flex Seal. The Liquid Nails is going fine after maybe 9 months, but it has porous areas so I would not use it except in rough grind to not risk grit contamination on finer grits. It makes the bottom very stiff which I like. The Flex Seal was fun as I had never used that product. Like the liquid nails, I added about 1/4" of new bottom. It looks so much like the original bottom that it's hard to even remember that barrel has been repaired at all. It was easier to do than the Liquid Nails. I've not run it with enough batches though to be certain if the place where it seals against the original rubber is a perfect bond or not. But even if it isn't, I can just dedicate it for one grit size.
Except for those things, I'm not sure I can tell if the barrels have worn any at all, even the one now in it's 7th year. This seems remarkable to me. I would have to caliper the sides to know for sure but I've not bothered.
But...there is trouble in paradise. The older the barrel, the more the following is happening. I open up a batch, and find that the lid liner during the week didn't remain sealed all the way down against the barrel lip. At first, I though this was because some big rocks had hit the lid hard on the inside, or I had failed to tighten right, but now that it's happened over and over I know those aren't the explanations. Plus I've not suddenly forgotten how to properly tighten the lid after years and thousands of batches.
This started happening from time to time maybe a year ago. It doesn't cause a disaster, just a bit more cleanup time on the barrel between batches. In some cases, the crack opens up maybe 1mm and few times maybe as much as 2mm. Of course all kinds of broken material gets jammed in there. I've noticed the metal lids are also looser and don't require as much of a press down on the workbench to seat. Rarely, a little slurry comes out under the metal lid but not enough to be annoying.
I have a theory about what is happening but before I post that wondering if anyone else sees this and is way ahead of me on figuring it out and dealing with it?
It hasn't happened yet on any 6lb barrels, but only on the 12lb.
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Post by rmf on Dec 24, 2020 3:24:35 GMT -5
What type of tumbler barrels are you talking about?
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kyoti
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2020
Posts: 542
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Post by kyoti on Dec 24, 2020 9:43:26 GMT -5
I've only had this happened one time on my 3 lb Barrel. I thought it might be a little bit of broken chips that had worked their way into the barrel shoulder that caused it.
One odd thing that's happened quite a bit lately on all my barrels is that the lid liner sort of inflates inside of the barrel. I'm not sure if it's because of the colder temperatures in my garage or something else.
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Post by rmf on Dec 24, 2020 10:24:31 GMT -5
I see the title that I missed earlier. I had to replace the rubber inner gaskets on 12# drums I purchased used but have never come close to wearing out a drum even though I use 46/70 grit.
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chapslv
having dreams about rocks
Member since June 2020
Posts: 56
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Post by chapslv on Dec 24, 2020 11:16:26 GMT -5
Which Flex Seal product did you use?
I have thinning in the bottom of one of my Lortone barrels and would like to prolong its useful life if possible.
I also finally sprung a leak in the bottom of a plastic Mini-Sonic barrels. I wonder if the Flex Seal would adhere to plastic. I might have to try it out.
Thanks for the useful information.
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Post by Bob on Dec 24, 2020 11:16:48 GMT -5
rmf, perhaps I should have mentioned the tumbler brand Lortone also in the thread instead of just in the subject line.
kyoti, on the liner inflating, I don't know why this happens sometimes, and it used to annoy me. However, I don't mind a little inflation on it now at all and it lessens how much the rock bangs against the metal lid nut and so lessens the center of the lid liner wearing out. I say that not knowing if a 3lb barrel has a lid nut like the 12lb or 6lb.
I will post what I think is happening for others to react to soon.
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Post by Bob on Dec 25, 2020 11:40:48 GMT -5
I just used the black Flex Seal that came in a can. I did a little test pour of one spoonful just to see what the product was like and was impressed. So I cleaned the bottom well by scrubbing with copper kitchen scrubber. It's like having brand new barrel bottom. Rather that several thin pours that would have cured in only 1 day each, I wanted one so it took a week to cure hard. I really like it so far and am thinking of other uses for Flex Seal.
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller 
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,722 
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Post by Fossilman on Dec 25, 2020 12:26:48 GMT -5
I replace the rubber lid liners every few years...
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Post by Mel on Dec 27, 2020 13:45:30 GMT -5
Bob Thank you for the tips! I have an ooooold 3A that's starting to get kind of thin on the bottom -- this machine is my achilles heel. I'm convinced it was put in my shop to test my patience! Going to try these out.
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Post by Bob on Dec 30, 2020 17:15:47 GMT -5
Whenever I buy a rubber barrel, I carve a notch into the bottom corner. The first one has 1 notch and so is barrel 12A in my tumbling record log. The last one I bought is 12D and has 4 notches and so forth. The notches get gray rock slurry in them and so are easy to ID even when the barrels are rotating on the bases because they notches are almost white.
Since I posted this message all 4 of my 12lb barrels have been recharged and I examined this problem closely. Last night I did 12A, my first one purchased in the fall of 2014, now 6+ years old. And it is the worst with this problem. To post my theory on what is happening I will make a drawing on paper, photograph it, and post soon.
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Post by Bob on Dec 31, 2020 15:47:25 GMT -5
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Post by Bob on Dec 31, 2020 15:59:56 GMT -5
So this is what I think is happening. See image I just sketched out above.
The Lortone lid seals by pressing the top lip of the barrel inward as the metal lid cover is pressed down. This inward press causes the lid to sort of be locked into place from above. Somehow, this problem just has to be caused by the lid being allowed to rise. See the arrow pointing to the wear point that I think is the culprit.
I clean the inside lip before doing a new batch. And I clean the outside of the barrel, after the metal lid cover is secured, before putting it back on the shafts in the tumbler base. But I have not been cleaning the inside of the metal lid cover unless some slurry somehow got up there. Nor have I been cleaning the outside of the rubber barrel in the place the lid cover goes down on it. Thus, the wear I have sketched out is occurring. I have exaggerated the curve so it's easily seen. I measured it last night on my oldest barrel and this wear point ranged from .04 to .06"at various places around the rim. I wouldn't have thought that would be enough to allow the inner lid to not be sealed tight enough, but apparently it is. The metal lid cover has a swaged curve in this area formed by the mandrel when it was formed. I'm guessing my wear almost perfectly matches that swaged curve now, so it's just not working. And tightening the nut more than usual makes no difference.
I went to looking as to how it's possible this wear could occur. The inside of the metal cover is pretty clean. But the rubber surface isn't on many of my barrels. Except for when I've been traveling, this 6 year old barrel has been recharged weekly. Not adjusting for travel, means 312 times that it has been pressed down against that dirty rubber. I guess that's enough times for that rock dust slurry on the rubber to wear it down enough.
If anyone thinks I'm on the wrong track, let me know. I'm going to start cleaning the rubber in this area. I might even try building it up a little bit with a smear of Flex Seal liquid rubber. If this doesn't work, I think I have to buy a new barrel even though otherwise the barrel is great.
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Post by Bob on Feb 19, 2021 12:46:39 GMT -5
An update on two things.
First, the new Flex Seal bottom on the barrel has been working great. One can see the line of the joint where it didn't truly "merge" with the rubber of the barrel. If I poke that line with my fingernail, and try to pry it apart, it seems to be doable. So, this might mean grit could be carried there and contaminate a finer grit load. I'm going to keep an eye on this area and see how it wears down if it does.
Second on my theory about the lid seals wearing, what I've observed since Dec supports I'm on the right track. I have four 12lb barrels, each coded by age, so I know which are older and newer, and the older the more this problem is visible. So I'm going to pull the oldest one (2014) out of processing and attempt to rebuild the barrel lip a little bit. After thinking about it some, my first try to going to be to put a band of black electrical tape (plastic or rubber) around the top of that barrel lip, maybe 1/4" wide, and maybe glued on. This should be just enough to maybe make up for the worn off rubber and might go back to properly clamping the inner lid again. I have switched to cleaning the outside of the rubber lip on the barrel, and the inside of the metal cover lip, on each load since hopefully to stop this wear when shoving the lid down. Another idea I have, is after this cleaning, smearing a little bit of silicon grease inside of the metal lid lip to help it slide on w/o wearing off the rubber. But of course doing that risks it not clamping as well and maybe increasing chances of blowouts. I don't mind spending $70 or whatever to replace a barrel every 6 years or so, but it's also kind of fun to attempt to make it last a bit longer too.
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Post by Bob on May 3, 2021 13:13:43 GMT -5
...I clean the inside lip before doing a new batch. And I clean the outside of the barrel, after the metal lid cover is secured, before putting it back on the shafts in the tumbler base. But I have not been cleaning the inside of the metal lid cover unless some slurry somehow got up there. Nor have I been cleaning the outside of the rubber barrel in the place the lid cover goes down on it...Well, I've now been doing the underlined part above for 4 months. It was a pain to bother with at first, but now it's become reflex. I put in the lid liner, and dip a paper towel in water and wipe carefully around the outside of the rubber lip, which is always dirty looking. Then I wipe the inside of the metal lid, which is almost never dirty but I do it anyway. It does I guess often have a slight grey film from a tiny bit of thin slurry that got up there. There are been two results, one expected and one not. The one expected is that this seems to be stopping entirely the wear of the rubber part--the outside lip--of that barrel. It least the metal lids seem to not be decreasing in how hard they are to press down, even on new barrels. So this is good and was my goal. The unexpected thing is even on the older barrels, the problem of the inner lid rising by the end of the week allowing some crud under it has stopped. I can figure out why, but obviously this is great. Cleaning what I've been cleaning would seem to have nothing to do with the fit between the inner lid and the inside of the barrel lip. |
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Post by Bob on Jul 30, 2021 13:13:25 GMT -5
...First, the new Flex Seal bottom on the barrel has been working great. One can see the line of the joint where it didn't truly "merge" with the rubber of the barrel. If I poke that line with my fingernail, and try to pry it apart, it seems to be doable. So, this might mean grit could be carried there and contaminate a finer grit load. I'm going to keep an eye on this area and see how it wears down if it does.... As an update, I remember how carefully I cleaned that barrel and even used sandpaper and lacquer thinner to make a surface onto which the top of the Flex Seal might mate with well. Months later, this new barrel bottom is just great. I can't tell that it has worn at all, but that mating edge never sealed perfectly, the new Flex Seal did not merge with the old rubber and so there is a small crack there into which little tiny rocks get hung in from time to time. So, it works, but I'm not using a barrel that has been "rebottomed" this way with any grits finer than 220 in case a large grit particle were to get carried in that crack and come out later. All that makes me wonder what holds the Flex Seal bottom in at all. It if never actually adhered, maybe it's just a loose disk of rubber than could be pulled out if I really tried. I'm not going to bother checking because it seems to be working okay even if so. |
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Benathema
has rocks in the head
God chased me down and made sure I knew He was real June 20, 2022. I've been on a Divine Mission.
Member since November 2019
Posts: 703
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Post by Benathema on Aug 2, 2021 22:09:06 GMT -5
One of my gasket fixes crapped out. The gasket already had a hole in it when I did the repair. I got a couple months out of it before the center wore loose and got crammed full of rocks. This caused it to separate more, but it didn't leak. That's been set aside, but the other 2 I did for the 12lb barrels are still going. Definitely seems like a fix that should be done as a preventative step, rather than a repair.
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Post by Bob on Aug 4, 2021 10:31:47 GMT -5
Sorry that happened. Yes, I do patch them when the rubber gets thin in the middle, maybe 1mm, which I can feel.
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waterboysh
spending too much on rocks
Member since April 2021
Posts: 386
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Post by waterboysh on Dec 1, 2022 2:00:34 GMT -5
What do you patch the lid liner with? My 6 lb Lortone barrel I use for coarse only just developed a small hole right in the center. I've had it about 1.5 years. I haven't had time to look around on the web, but both The Rock Shed and Kinsley North are sold out of liners.
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Post by Bob on Dec 3, 2022 14:25:20 GMT -5
I just glue a piece of rubber or neoprene onto it with the adhesive E6000. Just make sure the adhesive is fully in the mating surface, with no empty areas. That way as the patch eventually gets worn through it doesn't matter and you can redo later. I'm still running the same liners now in 10th year.
I usually make the patch to cover maybe 50% to 75% of the liner. And I do it before the hole is worn through. Once the liner feels like it's less than 1mm or so in the middle, I get ready to patch soon.
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Post by Bob on Dec 3, 2022 14:28:07 GMT -5
...I clean the inside lip before doing a new batch. And I clean the outside of the barrel, after the metal lid cover is secured, before putting it back on the shafts in the tumbler base. But I have not been cleaning the inside of the metal lid cover unless some slurry somehow got up there. Nor have I been cleaning the outside of the rubber barrel in the place the lid cover goes down on it...Well, I've now been doing the underlined part above for 4 months. It was a pain to bother with at first, but now it's become reflex. I put in the lid liner, and dip a paper towel in water and wipe carefully around the outside of the rubber lip, which is always dirty looking. Then I wipe the inside of the metal lid, which is almost never dirty but I do it anyway. It does I guess often have a slight grey film from a tiny bit of thin slurry that got up there. There are been two results, one expected and one not. The one expected is that this seems to be stopping entirely the wear of the rubber part--the outside lip--of that barrel. It least the metal lids seem to not be decreasing in how hard they are to press down, even on new barrels. So this is good and was my goal. The unexpected thing is even on the older barrels, the problem of the inner lid rising by the end of the week allowing some crud under it has stopped. I can figure out why, but obviously this is great. Cleaning what I've been cleaning would seem to have nothing to do with the fit between the inner lid and the inside of the barrel lip. FYI, I've been cleaning the lid and barrel lip now every time for what I guess is about 2 years. It worked, and I think it completely stopped the wear on the barrel lips. |
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