waterboysh
spending too much on rocks
Member since April 2021
Posts: 386
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Post by waterboysh on Dec 6, 2022 9:28:39 GMT -5
I just glue a piece of rubber or neoprene onto it with the adhesive E6000. Just make sure the adhesive is fully in the mating surface, with no empty areas. That way as the patch eventually gets worn through it doesn't matter and you can redo later. I'm still running the same liners now in 10th year. Can you elaborate a little for me? I just want to make sure I get the right kind of rubber. Is something like this what I would want? EDIT: Because I think the link probably won't work, you may need to copy/paste the URL: smile.amazon.com/6x6-Inch-Neoprene-Plumbing-Material-Protection/dp/B018H9CCPG |
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Post by Bob on Dec 6, 2022 16:09:04 GMT -5
I just glue a piece of rubber or neoprene onto it with the adhesive E6000. Just make sure the adhesive is fully in the mating surface, with no empty areas. That way as the patch eventually gets worn through it doesn't matter and you can redo later. I'm still running the same liners now in 10th year. Can you elaborate a little for me? I just want to make sure I get the right kind of rubber. Is something like this what I would want? EDIT: Because I think the link probably won't work, you may need to copy/paste the URL: smile.amazon.com/6x6-Inch-Neoprene-Plumbing-Material-Protection/dp/B018H9CCPGYes, I buy that in 1'x4' sheets, in 1/4" and 1/8" thicknesses. The 1/4" I use for my 20lb and 40lb barrel gaskets and gasket repairs and new barrel bottoms. The 1/8" I use for same on my 12lb and 6lb barrels. It's easy to cut up with heavy duty scissors and sheet metal shears. I put in a new barrel bottom when the existing gets about 1mm thin in the middle. I don't replace it per se, but glue in a new bottom over the old one, completely from side-to-side perfect fit. I added that info even though I know you were posting about patching the lid liner. |
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waterboysh
spending too much on rocks
Member since April 2021
Posts: 386
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Post by waterboysh on Dec 6, 2022 21:50:21 GMT -5
Do you glue the rubber to the inside or outside of the liner?
My liner has a small hole in it. I'm assuming that no matter which you do as a preventative I need to patch the outside to keep the hole from growing.
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Post by Bob on Dec 7, 2022 14:39:52 GMT -5
Do you glue the rubber to the inside or outside of the liner? My liner has a small hole in it. I'm assuming that no matter which you do as a preventative I need to patch the outside to keep the hole from growing. As I process barrels over the next week or so, I'll take a few pics for you. The patch is glued to the inside (toward rocks) of the liner. That particular adhesive seems to have a wear rate that is similar to the rubber itself. By not having any voids in the adhesive, I don't have to worry about any grit particle contamination between batches. To give you some idea of the size of a patch, for a 6 or 12lb Lortone barrel my liner patch is probably 3-4" in diameter. It seems to me like most of the liner wear is in the center by far, so by patching one up the liners just seem to keep going fine. I think some of my patched lid liners are now in their 4th year. If you have Lortone barrels, you can grind down (if you have a grinder) that bolt head leaving only maybe .5mm left and this greatly decreases liner wear. |
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Post by Bob on Dec 8, 2022 10:22:43 GMT -5
 Closeup of how bolt head was ground down to .5mm and then epoxy spread over it a ways. This really slows down liner wear.  A patch that is probably 2 years old and still fine. The liner rubber has pores/holes in the material meaning it was manufactured with defects. That's one reason all liners are only used always with only 1 grit size in case they get grit embedded.  A patching job done a week ago and not yet used. After gluing it on, I also put a few beads of adhesive around the edge. Takes about 2-3 days to do a good patching job.   All lids are color coded to be used only in a certain grit size. This also means that when I open a barrel I don't even have to refer to a log sheet, I know by the color what size grit is in there. The red for instance means the load has 80.  |
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waterboysh
spending too much on rocks
Member since April 2021
Posts: 386
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Post by waterboysh on Dec 8, 2022 10:45:00 GMT -5
Thanks for the pictures. My rotary barrels are only used for coarse so I'm not really worried about grit contamination.
Last set of questions.
1. I just realized you said you use 1/8" for a 6lb barrel. I was initially planning on getting 1/16". Do you think the extra thickness is needed?
2. I'm seeing different kinds of rubber and know absolutely nothing about them. I see some just say rubber, I see neoprene rubber, I see some that say sponge foam rubber, I see silicone rubber... I don't know the differences between any of these. What kind do you use?
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Post by Bob on Dec 8, 2022 16:23:57 GMT -5
Thanks for the pictures. My rotary barrels are only used for coarse so I'm not really worried about grit contamination. Last set of questions. 1. I just realized you said you use 1/8" for a 6lb barrel. I was initially planning on getting 1/16". Do you think the extra thickness is needed? 2. I'm seeing different kinds of rubber and know absolutely nothing about them. I see some just say rubber, I see neoprene rubber, I see some that say sponge foam rubber, I see silicone rubber... I don't know the differences between any of these. What kind do you use? I would not waste my time on something thin like 1/16". My patches on 6lb and 12lb barrels have been 1/8" to 3/16". Stay away from foam rubber and silicon which isn't rubber. I go with neoprene or regular rubber but to be honest I don't remember exactly what it is. I use tire truck flaps for my 20 and 40lb barrels for rough grind only as they have embedded fibrous structures that might trap grit in finer stages. |
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hypodactylus
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2021
Posts: 478
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Post by hypodactylus on Aug 12, 2023 16:45:55 GMT -5
BobAfter a few years experience dealing with wearing barrels, did you prefer the Flex-Seal barrel bottom patch method or the rubber sheet barrel bottom patch method? Thinking of doing something with mine to keep them going longer as they get thinner on the bottom. Thanks!
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Post by Bob on Aug 19, 2023 11:28:22 GMT -5
Since this thread, I've also added new bottoms to one of my 20lb rubber barrels. I made a cardboard template of the hexagon and cut it very close and glued it in with E6000 from Walmart.
The Flexseal bottom had held up extremely well, not even sure if there has been any wear. However, the edges of it became loose for several millimeters, kind of a tight flap. So I've been afraid to use a Flexseal bottom with grit smaller than 80 if 80 or larger has ever been used in that barrel after the new Flexseal bottom was poured.
The patches using E6000 adhesive and cut rubber sheeting have also held up super well. I'm kind of leaning toward using only that in the future because of how disappointed I was to find my leftover 50% full can of Flexseal had turned to solid in only 1 year and it's not cheap. The E6000 seem to have another advantage that the edge of it doesn't become loose so I'm not afraid to use successively smaller grits in it.
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Post by velodromed on Aug 19, 2023 14:32:59 GMT -5
Since this thread, I've also added new bottoms to one of my 20lb rubber barrels. I made a cardboard template of the hexagon and cut it very close and glued it in with E6000 from Walmart. The Flexseal bottom had held up extremely well, not even sure if there has been any wear. However, the edges of it became loose for several millimeters, kind of a tight flap. So I've been afraid to use a Flexseal bottom with grit smaller than 80 if 80 or larger has ever been used in that barrel after the new Flexseal bottom was poured. The patches using E6000 adhesive and cut rubber sheeting have also held up super well. I'm kind of leaning toward using only that in the future because of how disappointed I was to find my leftover 50% full can of Flexseal had turned to solid in only 1 year and it's not cheap. The E6000 seem to have another advantage that the edge of it doesn't become loose so I'm not afraid to use successively smaller grits in it. Thank you for posting this Bob. I had been thinking of trying to repair some tears in rubber lid liners using tire patches. Your idea is far better. I already have e6000 for other projects so I ordered some rubber sheets. Starting out with 1/16th thick because the barrels in question are three pounders. Much appreciated, I love a good hack! |
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Post by Bob on Aug 21, 2023 13:53:37 GMT -5
Since this thread, I've also added new bottoms to one of my 20lb rubber barrels. I made a cardboard template of the hexagon and cut it very close and glued it in with E6000 from Walmart. The Flexseal bottom had held up extremely well, not even sure if there has been any wear. However, the edges of it became loose for several millimeters, kind of a tight flap. So I've been afraid to use a Flexseal bottom with grit smaller than 80 if 80 or larger has ever been used in that barrel after the new Flexseal bottom was poured. The patches using E6000 adhesive and cut rubber sheeting have also held up super well. I'm kind of leaning toward using only that in the future because of how disappointed I was to find my leftover 50% full can of Flexseal had turned to solid in only 1 year and it's not cheap. The E6000 seem to have another advantage that the edge of it doesn't become loose so I'm not afraid to use successively smaller grits in it. Thank you for posting this Bob. I had been thinking of trying to repair some tears in rubber lid liners using tire patches. Your idea is far better. I already have e6000 for other projects so I ordered some rubber sheets. Starting out with 1/16th thick because the barrels in question are three pounders. Much appreciated, I love a good hack! I didn't discover E6000 until about a decade ago, but man do I use it a lot for many things. Last night I had the big 40lb Lortone barrel come due. I make replacement top seals out of mudflaps, and this one had grown thin in the middle about a year ago and I glued in a patch using the same material and E6000. This material is almost 1/4" thick. What I do is I first spiral lines of the adhesive such that when the patch is pressed down it will be complete adhesive w/o any air pockets. To accomplish this also means sort of rotating and smearing the patch a bit after pressing on it. Then I weigh the whole thing down overnight under a dinner plate with considerable weight of whatever it takes to get the size right. Then, I take 2-3 days to put more and more adhesive around the edge of the patch to make a good filet "weld" instead of leaving a sharp inside corner, smearing it with my finger each time. The proof that this works well was very visible last night. The edge of the patch has worn down and is no longer a corner. The adhesive showing is now maybe 1/4" wide or a bit wider, but holding tight and wears similar to the patch itself and is very solid thus allowing successive finer grits if needed. So lucky this works well and so lucky we have that great adhesive to use with remains flexible! |
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Post by velodromed on Aug 21, 2023 14:04:25 GMT -5
Thank you for posting this Bob. I had been thinking of trying to repair some tears in rubber lid liners using tire patches. Your idea is far better. I already have e6000 for other projects so I ordered some rubber sheets. Starting out with 1/16th thick because the barrels in question are three pounders. Much appreciated, I love a good hack! I didn't discover E6000 until about a decade ago, but man do I use it a lot for many things. Last night I had the big 40lb Lortone barrel come due. I make replacement top seals out of mudflaps, and this one had grown thin in the middle about a year ago and I glued in a patch using the same material and E6000. This material is almost 1/4" thick. What I do is I first spiral lines of the adhesive such that when the patch is pressed down it will be complete adhesive w/o any air pockets. To accomplish this also means sort of rotating and smearing the patch a bit after pressing on it. Then I weigh the whole thing down overnight under a dinner plate with considerable weight of whatever it takes to get the size right. Then, I take 2-3 days to put more and more adhesive around the edge of the patch to make a good filet "weld" instead of leaving a sharp inside corner, smearing it with my finger each time. The proof that this works well was very visible last night. The edge of the patch has worn down and is no longer a corner. The adhesive showing is now maybe 1/4" wide or a bit wider, but holding tight and wears similar to the patch itself and is very solid thus allowing successive finer grits if needed. So lucky this works well and so lucky we have that great adhesive to use with remains flexible! Thank you for the additional details! I was figuring it needed to be weighted down, and I noticed how you trim the edges so it didn’t have a high sharp corner. I used to use shoo goo and concrete board tape to increase the strength of my RC car bodies. I discovered early this year that e6000 is very similar, if not better, and also comes in large caulking tubes for only 11 bucks. So I immediately switched and have a good amount. How long do you let a cure after you’re done? When I would use it, it would cure in 24 hours because it’s exposed to the air. But since it’s underneath the rubber patch, does it need longer? Maybe three or four days? Many thanks Bob! |
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Post by southernlakehuronguy on Aug 21, 2023 14:45:38 GMT -5
I used tire patches on my 3 pound tumblers, done in minutes and have held up well for 6 months now.
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Post by Bob on Aug 22, 2023 10:24:12 GMT -5
"Thank you for the additional details! I was figuring it needed to be weighted down, and I noticed how you trim the edges so it didn’t have a high sharp corner. I used to use shoo goo and concrete board tape to increase the strength of my RC car bodies. I discovered early this year that e6000 is very similar, if not better, and also comes in large caulking tubes for only 11 bucks. So I immediately switched and have a good amount.
How long do you let a cure after you’re done? When I would use it, it would cure in 24 hours because it’s exposed to the air. But since it’s underneath the rubber patch, does it need longer? Maybe three or four days? Many thanks Bob!"
Had no idea it came in such large containers. I find that an opened tube starts setting up and getting a bit too thick after 4+ months in my drawer, so I just buy the relatively inexpensive tubes at Walmart, which I suppose maybe hold a bit more or bit less than a large tube of toothpaste. I have never used Shoogoo but I've heard amazing stories about it from fellow backpackers who have used it to fix boots in the wild that were falling apart. The neat thing about E6000 is how fast it works. It shrinks down within hours. I never bother to let it go more than one overnight before putting it to use in tumbling. On my method of filling that inside corner, I sometimes can do 3-4 smears in one day because it shrinks and dries so fast.
I've never done it, but the next time I need to repair the bottom of a 6lb or 12lb barrel, which are the same size, I might even try just squirting a whole tube of the stuff in the bottom and letting it level out and dry! I would not be surprised that it works well, and that would only cost me about $4 or so. Admit to be so curious about the factories that make such sticky adhesive like this. Must be some pretty tricky processes and work to keep things clean.
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Post by Bob on Aug 22, 2023 10:26:30 GMT -5
I used tire patches on my 3 pound tumblers, done in minutes and have held up well for 6 months now. The owner of Lortone told me years ago that the barrels were made out of the same material that most tires are made out of, so I guess no surprise. Do you mean a vulcanizing (heat is applied to raw rubber) patch or a "cold patch"? |
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Post by southernlakehuronguy on Aug 22, 2023 10:52:03 GMT -5
Cold patch.
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michiganpebbler
spending too much on rocks
Member since April 2023
Posts: 344 
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Post by michiganpebbler on Aug 22, 2023 10:55:54 GMT -5
I've only had this happened one time on my 3 lb Barrel. I thought it might be a little bit of broken chips that had worked their way into the barrel shoulder that caused it. One odd thing that's happened quite a bit lately on all my barrels is that the lid liner sort of inflates inside of the barrel. I'm not sure if it's because of the colder temperatures in my garage or something else. My tumblers do that as well. I have no idea if it’s ‘normal’ or not. The lid liner doesn’t poof out (technical term lol) real tight, just a bit squishy. |
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Post by Bob on Aug 22, 2023 14:13:06 GMT -5
I've only had this happened one time on my 3 lb Barrel. I thought it might be a little bit of broken chips that had worked their way into the barrel shoulder that caused it. One odd thing that's happened quite a bit lately on all my barrels is that the lid liner sort of inflates inside of the barrel. I'm not sure if it's because of the colder temperatures in my garage or something else. My tumblers do that as well. I have no idea if it’s ‘normal’ or not. The lid liner doesn’t poof out (technical term lol) real tight, just a bit squishy. I have discovered that a bit of air in there slows down the wear of the liner a little bit, so I don't press it all out. Ideally about 1/8" of air bubble in the middle. Not sure why this works. |
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Post by velodromed on Aug 22, 2023 14:21:15 GMT -5
My tumblers do that as well. I have no idea if it’s ‘normal’ or not. The lid liner doesn’t poof out (technical term lol) real tight, just a bit squishy. I have discovered that a bit of air in there slows down the wear of the liner a little bit, so I don't press it all out. Ideally about 1/8" of air bubble in the middle. Not sure why this works. Actually, that makes a lot of sense. Little bit of air will cushion the blow as opposed to rocks hitting against a solid surface. Much like air filled Styrofoam does inside a bike helmet. I’m sure there’s a better explanation, but being a former cyclist, that’s all I can think of. |
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Post by Bob on Aug 23, 2023 16:51:40 GMT -5
I have discovered that a bit of air in there slows down the wear of the liner a little bit, so I don't press it all out. Ideally about 1/8" of air bubble in the middle. Not sure why this works. Actually, that makes a lot of sense. Little bit of air will cushion the blow as opposed to rocks hitting against a solid surface. Much like air filled Styrofoam does inside a bike helmet. I’m sure there’s a better explanation, but being a former cyclist, that’s all I can think of. I also like it for another reason. The first thing I do, especially in warm weather, is place the lid liner in a 5 gal bucket of water and twirl it to get the cleaning of it started while I pour off the barrel slurry. The air bubble keeps it from sinking in that water and I can take my time working the barrel until coming back to finish cleaning the lid which is now mostly clean and floating. |
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