jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 30, 2020 6:00:57 GMT -5
Tumbling was popular 50 years ago. The Vibrasonic vibe is one testimony to this. This is an experiment done in 2015 using BB sized raw almandine garnets mined as an abrasive at Emerald Creek Idaho. A 50 pound bag of old stock almandine garnets was purchased for $25. Freshly chipped and sawn coral found in south Georgia was used for the target tumble. The Vibrasonic hopper has a 14 pound capacity hopper when loaded with quartz(quartz at 2.7 grams/milliliter density. And a 20 pound capacity when loaded with high quality BB sized garnets(almandine garnets at 3.8 grams/milliliter). 18 pounds of garnets and 1.5 pounds of coral was loaded into the hopper. No abrasives were added, just a sugar slurry. This is a 14 pound load of coral polished in the Vibrasonic using various grades of aluminum oxide. Standard procedure. Polish accomplished. This is 1.5 pounds of coral loaded with 18.5 pounds of garnet and run for 3 weeks. The raw garnets after 3 weeks showing signs of smoothing. The coral and garnets at clean out. A thin 5" long coral slab that survived with out breaking due to the padding of the small garnets. The surface finish of the coral smoothed. Closer. Polyp fingerprints exposed on surface of slabs that were sawn across the coral polyp tubes. Unexplainable. Coral is loaded with capillaries for a lack of a better term.
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Post by orrum on Dec 30, 2020 7:37:17 GMT -5
Like iij ng those garnets!
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Post by HankRocks on Dec 30, 2020 8:12:41 GMT -5
I have about 25 pounds of those garnets. Looks like it might be a way to polish Botryoidal without removing too much material. Might test run it.
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quartzilla
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Post by quartzilla on Dec 30, 2020 8:57:37 GMT -5
Prettiest slurry in history!
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kyoti
has rocks in the head
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Post by kyoti on Dec 30, 2020 9:28:17 GMT -5
Now that was a very cool experiment! I'd much prefer to have a pretty slurry like that to the grey concrete looking for a place to happen we usually use 😀😀 Did you use the sugar and aluminum oxide polish in each step or just the final? I'm guessing the garnets will last a long time because of their hardness?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 30, 2020 11:14:33 GMT -5
Now that was a very cool experiment! I'd much prefer to have a pretty slurry like that to the grey concrete looking for a place to happen we usually use 😀😀 Did you use the sugar and aluminum oxide polish in each step or just the final? I'm guessing the garnets will last a long time because of their hardness? Yes, garnets are real hard and also tough(like steel). Garnet Knoop hardness is 1300, harder than topaz at 1100. Quartz down at Knoop 820. Not sure about agate but rest assured some of it is harder than 820. Knoop and Mohs similar, Knoop is used heavily in ceramics industry. Note ceramic AO is harder than white AO. There are many garnets, Almandine about the hardest. Love the sugar. Yes, used aluminum oxide 220-AO 500-AO 14,000. 3 steps. Sugar all 3 steps. Unlike Borax, sugar dissolves easily with warm water which helps collapse the aluminum oxide that gets caked in our rocks.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 30, 2020 11:19:22 GMT -5
Prettiest slurry in history! Lol, pretty slurry. Tasty too. It likes to leave spots after rinsing. Best is to use a dash of dish washing detergent with rinse water. To thicken slurry simply add sugar, to thin add water. It does not dry out quickly.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 30, 2020 11:24:55 GMT -5
I have about 25 pounds of those garnets. Looks like it might be a way to polish Botryoidal without removing too much material. Might test run it. The company I bought these from sells like 300 and coarser grit garnets for water purification processes Henry. They go in some type of a reversible back wash filter. The high density plays a role some how. orrum. He has a pallet of these old BB sized garnets that have been sitting in the back of the warehouse for 30 years. He said you can no longer get these larger garnets. He has no use for them so the cheap $25 price. It is one heavy 50 pound bag.
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Post by orrum on Dec 31, 2020 4:42:03 GMT -5
Way cool J9m.
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Post by amygdule on Dec 31, 2020 19:45:01 GMT -5
It's nice to see you posting Rocks again jamesp Happy New Year !!!
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Post by jasoninsd on Dec 31, 2020 23:26:00 GMT -5
jamesp - I always enjoy reading your posts. Seeing the results you get is outstanding!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 1, 2021 8:56:22 GMT -5
It's nice to see you posting Rocks again jamesp Happy New Year !!! Like you I love being outdoors amygdule. Winter is approaching making the keyboard a better place lol. Nice to see your ocean side photos and findings. Love that raw west coast and it's brutal surf. A very Happy New Year to you. And a special Happy New Year to dearest rockpickerforever !!
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 1, 2021 9:11:28 GMT -5
jamesp One question, Why did you use a sugar slurry in the Garnet load? Cushioning maybe? Or more movement maybe? Henry
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 1, 2021 9:23:32 GMT -5
jamesp - I always enjoy reading your posts. Seeing the results you get is outstanding! Thanks Jason, there is many ways to skin the cat. Many ways to fail at it too lol. I try to do unbiased experiments. In most cases knowing what does not work shows what does work best. Life will not be complete until every abrasive and slurry brew has been tried in a tumbler jasoninsd ! I envy you guys living in pretty rock territory. We are devoid of agates and jaspers here.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 1, 2021 9:50:14 GMT -5
jamesp One question, Why did you use a sugar slurry in the Garnet load? Cushioning maybe? Or more movement maybe? Henry No good reason Henry. Other than I have bad luck with Borax in my hot Vibrasonic vibe regardless of the type rocks run. The 1/3 hp 3450 rpm motor is trapped in the base section and generates a lot of heat transferred to hopper directly above. Honestly, if you shove your hand in a batch of tumbles shortly after turning the Vibrasonic off on a summer Georgia day the slurry coated rocks will burn your fingers regardless of having gator skin. The slurry is like hot oil when cooking french fries. Borax dries out in a few hours in the Vibrasonic which impacts AO and Borax into the rocks which is a real mess to clean. Benefit of the heat is being able to run the vibe on 20F nights. Using cheap o-rings they often break. On many occasions they have broken on cold nights and the batch is frozen solid by morning. Forcing a thaw. Never seemed to hurt anything. In hot weather I add about 50% more sugar to get the same slurry viscosity as winter. Sugar slurry viscosity like Aunt Jemima's pancake syrup is dependent upon temperature. This vibe eats a lot of electricity, obviously so with a big 1/3 hp 3450 rpm motor. It is an old school industrial grade beast. Remember muscle cars of the late 60's lol. But it easily has the power to shake a load with the thickest of protective slurries. If you ever get a chance to get on I'd go for it.
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 1, 2021 10:07:23 GMT -5
jamesp One question, Why did you use a sugar slurry in the Garnet load? Cushioning maybe? Or more movement maybe? Henry No good reason Henry. Other than I have bad luck with Borax in my hot Vibrasonic vibe regardless of the type rocks run. The 1/3 hp 3450 rpm motor is trapped in the base section and generates a lot of heat transferred to hopper directly above. Honestly, if you shove your hand in a batch of tumbles shortly after turning the Vibrasonic off on a summer Georgia day the slurry coated rocks will burn your fingers regardless of having gator skin. The slurry is like hot oil when cooking french fries. Borax dries out in a few hours in the Vibrasonic which impacts AO and Borax into the rocks which is a real mess to clean. Benefit of the heat is being able to run the vibe on 20F nights. Using cheap o-rings they often break. On many occasions they have broken on cold nights and the batch is frozen solid by morning. Forcing a thaw. Never seemed to hurt anything. In hot weather I add about 50% more sugar to get the same slurry viscosity as winter. Sugar slurry viscosity like Aunt Jemima's pancake syrup is dependent upon temperature. This vibe eats a lot of electricity, obviously so with a big 1/3 hp 3450 rpm motor. It is an old school industrial grade beast. Remember muscle cars of the late 60's lol. But it easily has the power to shake a load with the thickest of protective slurries. If you ever get a chance to get on I'd go for it. I am going to do a test run with Garnets and 3 or 4 smaller pieces of West Texas Botryoidal in the 4 pound Mini-Sonic hopper. One difference might be that the Garnets I will be using are a bit smaller than the ones you used and that may create some issues with trapped media in the nooks and crannies of the Botryoidal. Have a couple good Dental Picks that have been useful for dis-lodging these hitchhikers. The other test might be to use the garnets from this load on a 1/2 pound piece of Petrified Wood to see if I can put polish on it and preserve the surface character of the piece. The Sonic I have is a 3 - 4pound hopper machine. It allows me run different small loads at the same time. My goal this new year is to take advantage of the machines flexibility.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 1, 2021 10:17:39 GMT -5
Some info on your garnets HankRocksThe garnets from Emerald Creek Idaho are some of the finest almandine garnets in the world. Looking for info on the mining operation. Environmental pressure has probably forced them to secrecy in publishing publicly. Garnets are like gold, way heavier/denser than most rocks. So they can be separated from dredged soils using mechanical separators efficiently. I believe Starguy is fortunate enough to collect near these deposits. Garnets are about the only natural material on earth that can be tortured and reused 6 to 8 times in a sand blaster. Perhaps diamonds but too expensive. Looks like the big corporation OPTA has bought the Emerald Creek Mining district since they have money to pay off the environmentalists. No one can perform large mining operations unless they have deep pockets.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jan 1, 2021 10:18:36 GMT -5
It's nice to see you posting Rocks again jamesp Happy New Year !!! Like you I love being outdoors amygdule . Winter is approaching making the keyboard a better place lol. Nice to see your ocean side photos and findings. Love that raw west coast and it's brutal surf. A very Happy New Year to you. And a special Happy New Year to dearest rockpickerforever !! Thank you, jamesp . Wishing you a wonderful New Year as well. Like 'Dule said, it's good to see you posting again. You'll have to catch us all up on your building progress.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,561
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Post by jamesp on Jan 1, 2021 10:32:26 GMT -5
No good reason Henry. Other than I have bad luck with Borax in my hot Vibrasonic vibe regardless of the type rocks run. The 1/3 hp 3450 rpm motor is trapped in the base section and generates a lot of heat transferred to hopper directly above. Honestly, if you shove your hand in a batch of tumbles shortly after turning the Vibrasonic off on a summer Georgia day the slurry coated rocks will burn your fingers regardless of having gator skin. The slurry is like hot oil when cooking french fries. Borax dries out in a few hours in the Vibrasonic which impacts AO and Borax into the rocks which is a real mess to clean. Benefit of the heat is being able to run the vibe on 20F nights. Using cheap o-rings they often break. On many occasions they have broken on cold nights and the batch is frozen solid by morning. Forcing a thaw. Never seemed to hurt anything. In hot weather I add about 50% more sugar to get the same slurry viscosity as winter. Sugar slurry viscosity like Aunt Jemima's pancake syrup is dependent upon temperature. This vibe eats a lot of electricity, obviously so with a big 1/3 hp 3450 rpm motor. It is an old school industrial grade beast. Remember muscle cars of the late 60's lol. But it easily has the power to shake a load with the thickest of protective slurries. If you ever get a chance to get on I'd go for it. I am going to do a test run with Garnets and 3 or 4 smaller pieces of West Texas Botryoidal in the 4 pound Mini-Sonic hopper. One difference might be that the Garnets I will be using are a bit smaller than the ones you used and that may create some issues with trapped media in the nooks and crannies of the Botryoidal. Have a couple good Dental Picks that have been useful for dis-lodging these hitchhikers. The other test might be to use the garnets from this load on a 1/2 pound piece of Petrified Wood to see if I can put polish on it and preserve the surface character of the piece. The Sonic I have is a 3 - 4pound hopper machine. It allows me run different small loads at the same time. My goal this new year is to take advantage of the machines flexibility. Those garnets really show off the surface without scratching and grinding it away Henry. It may take a long time in a rotary. Using your Sonic or any vibe for that matter is the way to go. Bots seem the perfect target. Let me say that 3 weeks was a darn long run, if memory serves I believe the garnets had completed their job in a few days. In other words you may find that a 3 day vibe run gives you the surface finish you are looking for. Now virgin garnets may have a different outcome than pre-tumbled garnets. Like pre-tumbling ceramics or quartz pea gravel, same situation. I am assuming your garnets are the red almandines ? And I doubt it matters that yours are smaller. I believe mine are #4/#5 screen garnets(4 grit basically) or BB size. The guy that sold them to me said they were no longer available(i.e. about mined out). It takes forever to round those little garnets. Yes they are Mohs hard but they are also tough.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 1, 2021 10:39:34 GMT -5
Like you I love being outdoors amygdule . Winter is approaching making the keyboard a better place lol. Nice to see your ocean side photos and findings. Love that raw west coast and it's brutal surf. A very Happy New Year to you. And a special Happy New Year to dearest rockpickerforever !! Thank you, jamesp . Wishing you a wonderful New Year as well. Like 'Dule said, it's good to see you posting again. You'll have to catch us all up on your building progress. Happy New Year Jean. Sure hope you and Bob are doing well and dodging those treacherous Cali fires. Those petrified woods you sent me have the same finish as garnet tumbled agates. Your high winds have blown silica sand against those pet wood pebbles so long they are sand polished. Same thing happens to chert spearheads found in Florida's fast flowing sand bottom rivers. 100's of years of sand impingement has polished the spearheads. We call them 'river finds'.
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