jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,158
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Post by jamesp on Jan 4, 2021 8:17:14 GMT -5
I bought an 11.9" iPadPro back in 2017. The Pro model is the one with the fine camera. The lower grade iPad does not have a good camera. At least some of them anyway. For taking fine photos(including macro shots) I must say this is the user friendliest camera I have ever used. Both in crappy lighting and without a tripod.
Apparently some of the 2020 iphone 12's and iPadPro's have even better cameras that utilize multiple individual beam Lidar to speed up and increase accuracy of autofocus. And depth of field focus similar in quality to stacking focus.
This fellow is a professional photographer and his opinions regarding the use of a fancy DSLR verses the Pro model iPhone/iPad camera to get great photos is accurate IMO. The best technology is all about money and big money is being pumped into cell phones.
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Post by jasoninsd on Jan 4, 2021 8:35:06 GMT -5
That was both fun and depressing at the same time! It was fun with regards to seeing some of the amazing pictures he was able to capture on that phone. Yet, depressing as I know I'm not going to want to shell out the money for a new phone...so that'll wait for a few more years when they release the 17, hopefully bringing the price down on the 12! LOL
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pizzano
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Member since February 2018
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Post by pizzano on Jan 4, 2021 13:27:54 GMT -5
There is certainly a lot of "truth" behind that photographer's analysis........not just my opinion either. He bases much of his experience on well known and proven examples performed by many other elite pro's that have researched this..........$$ being one of the top two examples.
My own personal experience and investigation came up with similar results back when I was hunting for a replacement of my antiquated equipment a couple of years ago......As some may remember, I settled for a re-conditioned Nikon D7000 that was two years old (at the time) with plenty of shutter release life left on it.
The decision was based on mainly three factors...........cost, quality/history and type of usage.........The learning curve aspect became secondary once I narrowed down the choices. My Wife and Daughter have both had very expensive, up-to-date, high pixel rate cell phone/camera combo's. The Wife LG's, Samsung's and Motorola. The Daughter has been exclusively an iPhone user for over 10yrs. So, I've had plenty of opportunity to play with them. I, on the other hand, always have cheap'd out with the less expensive LG's as a phone first, camera had/has been whatever.......lol
I'm still of the old school crowd, settling for my photographic needs to be handled with what I'm most familiar with and have command of.........SLR. Only now DSLR, a bit more cumbersome and not always readily available, but still my go to for reproduction and reliable quality (once you get over the learning curve aspects)...lol. The cell phones are just amazing today, even 5yrs ago. But I'm not about to shell-out a grand or more just for the sake of convenience while I could/can spend half that for a good phone and a separate, stand-alone, upper-tier, semi-professional DSLR.........That's just me however, my Wife and kid's think I'm out-of-touch with technology and still like living in a cave.......lol.........they got part of that right....until they witness the fruits of my labor and the speed at which I perform........lol
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Post by greig on Jan 4, 2021 15:38:03 GMT -5
I should use my iPhone camera more often. I have the 10 which was my daughter's hand-me-down, when she got the 12. Actually, I bought the 12 and she took it, giving me her 10, which replaced my 8. After seeing Peter's video, I regret not keeping the 12. Good luck getting her to change now.
The one thing that drives me crazy is people who video for YT with the camera upright. Hold it sideways folks!
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Wooferhound
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Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 9, 2021 9:03:55 GMT -5
regarding Cameras and Lenses
- Size Matters -
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Jan 13, 2021 15:54:14 GMT -5
That was both fun and depressing at the same time! It was fun with regards to seeing some of the amazing pictures he was able to capture on that phone. Yet, depressing as I know I'm not going to want to shell out the money for a new phone...so that'll wait for a few more years when they release the 17, hopefully bringing the price down on the 12! LOL Hehe! I think the same way. I like keeping stuff for a long time even if the new stuff looks really awesome. My phones usually last me about 7-8 years though. So I'll probably be looking at buying the iPhone 17b too!
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victor1941
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Member since November 2011
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Post by victor1941 on Jan 13, 2021 22:06:26 GMT -5
Jamesp, thanks for posting this subject. The video was very informing.
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rrod
having dreams about rocks
Member since December 2020
Posts: 72
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Post by rrod on Jan 22, 2021 22:53:33 GMT -5
Seems like his point is essentially that iPhones automagically do much of the post-processing that one would do to make a picture "snap": exposure bracketing, curve/level adjustment, color saturating, and more complicated stuff like depth-of-field adjustment. The newest phones add machine learning to the mix to do things like make even nighttime photos possible. All of this can be done of course with the RAW image from a DSLR, but if all you want is schnazzy, high-contrast pics, what's the point. Just buy a phone. But it will probably be a while before an iPhone can recreate this experience:
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 23, 2021 1:40:05 GMT -5
I have been watching far too much YT lately. The thing I noticed is that in macro they're all like "focus, FOCUS!" On their phones and they are always apple products. My Motorola phone is nothing special, but for real photos I'll stick with real cameras.
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Wooferhound
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Member since December 2016
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Post by Wooferhound on Jan 23, 2021 8:46:32 GMT -5
You can get a really good camera (better than an iPhone) for less than $200.oo
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,158
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Post by jamesp on Jan 23, 2021 9:57:01 GMT -5
Digital image processing technology is starting to out perform the optical advantage of having larger lenses. This 4 year old iPad Pro camera has lenses barely the size of a small nail head at 2 millimeters. Even a one inch lens has 161 times more light gathering surface area than a 2 millimeter lens. The 2020 iPad Pro also has a 2 mm lens. Apparently little has changed in the lens size.
Excellent quality lenses both in high grade composition and accurate machining can be mass produced inexpensively with small lenses. With extremely precision lenses the digital imaging software can do miracles with light amplification for example and dozens of other photographic parameters.
No one has thrown more new technology and money at any camera compared to cell phone cameras.
The new iPad and Iphone 12 even have a LiDar sensor. LiDar is being perfected for autofocus, cellphones have utilized it to some extent in recent years:
"Using LiDAR time-of-flight sensors for autofocus and depth mapping is hardly a new idea. Smartphone makers have been using these sensors for a few years, and a LiDAR sensor is one of the major features added to the new iPhone 12 Pro. The 3D Focus module that DJI released for the new RS 2 gimbal simply turns LiDAR into an optional accessory… and a pretty cool one at that."
Cell phone technology is still growing.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,158
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Post by jamesp on Jan 23, 2021 10:00:55 GMT -5
You can get a really good camera (better than an iPhone) for less than $200.oo That does not surprise me woofer. Can you provide some brands/models ? Cell phones are a bad place to have a camera due to the abuse they receive and their cost. pizzano I believe LiDar focus is being applied in drone technology. dji has got their hands heavily into it.
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rrod
having dreams about rocks
Member since December 2020
Posts: 72
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Post by rrod on Jan 23, 2021 10:57:59 GMT -5
Digital image processing technology is starting to out perform the optical advantage of having larger lenses. This 4 year old iPad Pro camera has lenses barely the size of a small nail head at 2 millimeters. Even a one inch lens has 161 times more light gathering surface area than a 2 millimeter lens. The 2020 iPad Pro also has a 2 mm lens. Apparently little has changed in the lens size. Excellent quality lenses both in high grade composition and accurate machining can be mass produced inexpensively with small lenses. With extremely precision lenses the digital imaging software can do miracles with light amplification for example and dozens of other photographic parameters. No one has thrown more new technology and money at any camera compared to cell phone cameras. The new iPad and Iphone 12 even have a LiDar sensor. LiDar is being perfected for autofocus, cellphones have utilized it to some extent in recent years: "Using LiDAR time-of-flight sensors for autofocus and depth mapping is hardly a new idea. Smartphone makers have been using these sensors for a few years, and a LiDAR sensor is one of the major features added to the new iPhone 12 Pro. The 3D Focus module that DJI released for the new RS 2 gimbal simply turns LiDAR into an optional accessory… and a pretty cool one at that." Cell phone technology is still growing. I was trying yesterday to see if the LiDar on my iPad Pro could get a surface area measurement of some rocks, but it seems like it is meant for larger objects. I am still a bit miffed that the camera on the 2020 iPad Pro is, for some reason, much worse than the latest iPhones :/
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,158
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Post by jamesp on Jan 23, 2021 11:09:22 GMT -5
Digital image processing technology is starting to out perform the optical advantage of having larger lenses. This 4 year old iPad Pro camera has lenses barely the size of a small nail head at 2 millimeters. Even a one inch lens has 161 times more light gathering surface area than a 2 millimeter lens. The 2020 iPad Pro also has a 2 mm lens. Apparently little has changed in the lens size. Excellent quality lenses both in high grade composition and accurate machining can be mass produced inexpensively with small lenses. With extremely precision lenses the digital imaging software can do miracles with light amplification for example and dozens of other photographic parameters. No one has thrown more new technology and money at any camera compared to cell phone cameras. The new iPad and Iphone 12 even have a LiDar sensor. LiDar is being perfected for autofocus, cellphones have utilized it to some extent in recent years: "Using LiDAR time-of-flight sensors for autofocus and depth mapping is hardly a new idea. Smartphone makers have been using these sensors for a few years, and a LiDAR sensor is one of the major features added to the new iPhone 12 Pro. The 3D Focus module that DJI released for the new RS 2 gimbal simply turns LiDAR into an optional accessory… and a pretty cool one at that." Cell phone technology is still growing. I was trying yesterday to see if the LiDar on my iPad Pro could get a surface area measurement of some rocks, but it seems like it is meant for larger objects. I am still a bit miffed that the camera on the 2020 iPad Pro is, for some reason, much worse than the latest iPhones :/ So far I am more impressed with the 2017 iPad Pro as compared to the 2020 iPad Pro from the photo shop software standpoint. Possibly the photo ability too but have not had enough time on the 2020 to make that deduction. Say it is not so ! Was looking at pricing on used 2017 iPad Pro 10.5" 256g on EBAY, wow, talk about holding their resale value.
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pizzano
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Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Jan 23, 2021 15:06:21 GMT -5
You can get a really good camera (better than an iPhone) for less than $200.oo That does not surprise me woofer. Can you provide some brands/models ? Cell phones are a bad place to have a camera due to the abuse they receive and their cost. pizzano I believe LiDar focus is being applied in drone technology. dji has got their hands heavily into it. Yep......have been for awhile now.......comes at some expense too...! Depending on the application, investment cost vs. return in investment still a problem though. Really depends on what tool you have command of, application and final product needs........LiDar has it's own proprietary software and compatibility issues as it relates to data transfer and reproduction error accuracy......even if only used solely as a "measuring" tool.
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pizzano
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Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Jan 23, 2021 15:09:40 GMT -5
You can get a really good camera (better than an iPhone) for less than $200.oo I don't know about "less than $200.00"......but most certainly under $500.00.........reconditioned to "excellent" condition.......I did it......lol
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NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,630
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Post by NRG on Jan 24, 2021 18:05:40 GMT -5
Seems like his point is essentially that iPhones automagically do much of the post-processing that one would do to make a picture "snap": exposure bracketing, curve/level adjustment, color saturating, and more complicated stuff like depth-of-field adjustment. The newest phones add machine learning to the mix to do things like make even nighttime photos possible. All of this can be done of course with the RAW image from a DSLR, but if all you want is schnazzy, high-contrast pics, what's the point. Just buy a phone. But it will probably be a while before an iPhone can recreate this experience: Well, unless you want a picture of that 200" atypical whitetail 100 yards away. Then ya gonna need a 300mm+ lens on a quality DSLR. (or a quality scoped centerfire rifle) Phones are great for most images, but they fail at telephoto work.
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pizzano
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Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Jan 24, 2021 20:01:21 GMT -5
Seems like his point is essentially that iPhones automagically do much of the post-processing that one would do to make a picture "snap": exposure bracketing, curve/level adjustment, color saturating, and more complicated stuff like depth-of-field adjustment. The newest phones add machine learning to the mix to do things like make even nighttime photos possible. All of this can be done of course with the RAW image from a DSLR, but if all you want is schnazzy, high-contrast pics, what's the point. Just buy a phone. But it will probably be a while before an iPhone can recreate this experience: Well, unless you want a picture of that 200" atypical whitetail 100 yards away. Then ya gonna need a 300mm+ lens on a quality DSLR. (or a quality scoped centerfire rifle) Phones are great for most images, but they fail at telephoto work. I've got just the scope for that whitetail mounted on my Henry Big Boy.......works on big Razorbacks too.......lol
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