NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Jan 6, 2021 14:01:01 GMT -5
Question - Has anyone else decided to re-tumble some of their finished stones?
This week I have started to do just that:
While digging through some old tumbles and looking for a special rock or two it became obvious to me that my standards for tumbling have changed. I mean, I am not sure what I was thinking in the old days (a year ago).
I needed some more filler for a Stage 1 barrel. So I started randomly grabbing out formerly finished stones from this pile to add. I am going to finish tumbling them.
One fellow RTH member and mentor ( aDave) once wrote something to me that sticks in my mind. He said that he has tumbled some stones down to dust, just because he was never satisfied with them at any point.
And I think that I have reached the same point; with perhaps some small Lavic Jasper with a pit or two withstanding, that even a small scratch or pit will send a stone right back in to Stage 1 for another cycle again.
Anyone else fed up with their old tumbles?
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dkurtz
having dreams about rocks
Tumbling to de-stress from my work. :)
Member since February 2010
Posts: 66
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Post by dkurtz on Jan 6, 2021 15:02:17 GMT -5
I do it offend. As I sort out my finished rocks I have a box next to me markeed re-do and they get sent back to stage 1 if I find a pit or crack.
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 6, 2021 16:39:31 GMT -5
As for re-tumbling polished stones the only ones I usually do are those that broke or fractured along the way. In the sorting after coarse stage there will always be a few that go in the erosion control bucket for my friends Ranchette.
In my case I have a special plastic shoe box that I put my keepers in. I don't get many of those, maybe 1 or 2 rocks per load. If it appears that a rock is going to be competing for a spot in the special box, then I take a lot more time with him in the first stage. For some of the others I put together 1 and 2 pound bags for sale at the Craft Shows. The rest go in the 3 for 1$ totes for sale at the Shows. In a lot of cases I will tell the kids to take an extra 1 or 2.
I also sort some tumbled stones by type, Petrified Wood, Tigers Eye, Crazy lace, etc. A few of the lesser pieces of those go in the 3 for $1 tote. Haven't decided how to sell those sorted by type rocks and keep them from getting mixed up with the bargain tote rocks. A few of the larger ones get priced by the piece. The priced pieces of Petrified Wood and Tiger's Eye seem to sell well.
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gatorflash1
spending too much on rocks
Active in Delaware Mineralogical Society, Cabchon Grinding and Polishing, 2 Thumlers B's and a UV-18
Member since October 2018
Posts: 375
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Post by gatorflash1 on Jan 6, 2021 20:42:01 GMT -5
Rarely do I have to re-tumble except in Stage 1. The rocks are re-tumbled and don't get out of stage 1 unless they are free of pits, cracks, etc., and are nicely shaped. Stage 1 does 95% of the work. The other stages are really just scratch removal stages.
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Post by jasoninsd on Jan 7, 2021 6:24:25 GMT -5
I haven't tumbled enough rocks to have any to "go back to" yet! LOL I have an idea when that time comes though, I too will be trying a "do-over"!
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Post by Bob on Jan 7, 2021 11:38:50 GMT -5
Because my goal is always to tumble to perfection, by the time I get rocks out of 220 and 600 I seldom have to turn back. But, I have learned that by storing the polished rocks in a bowl and stirring them up now and then so they click against each other on purpose, imperfections that I didn't know were there, such as almost invisible hairline cracks, will come to show. I put them back in whatever stage is appropriate, or give them away.
One of my rocks is now in its 5th year of continuous tumbling. It WAS an agate that was the size of an orange. It's now a very small egg. There are problem areas that just never go away. I hate this rock, but it's man against the rock now. What looked like a small pit that would grind out ended up being a tubular hole that just keep going and going. Filling it with epoxy didn't work either.
In the beginning I used only cerium ox and had good results on polish. Some years later, I started experimenting with alum ox and felt I was getting better results on most rock types. So I took all my polished rocks of the most common material--3 year's worth--and put them all back in 1,000 SC to get the polish off and took them through polish again with alum ox. They turned out fantastic. Whether it was helpful to do that 1,000 stage or whether than was a waste is unknown to me.
From your photo, I would suggest more time in rough grind step 1. Sometimes weeks more--as long as it takes to smooth out dents and such. Of the rocks in the bowl, about 1/4 to 1/3 of what I can see are so fractured as to be discards.
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Post by jasoninsd on Jan 7, 2021 12:20:39 GMT -5
Because my goal is always to tumble to perfection, by the time I get rocks out of 220 and 600 I seldom have to turn back. But, I have learned that by storing the polished rocks in a bowl and stirring them up now and then so they click against each other on purpose, imperfections that I didn't know were there, such as almost invisible hairline cracks, will come to show. I put them back in whatever stage is appropriate, or give them away. One of my rocks is now in its 5th year of continuous tumbling. It WAS an agate that was the size of an orange. It's now a very small egg. There are problem areas that just never go away. I hate this rock, but it's man against the rock now. What looked like a small pit that would grind out ended up being a tubular hole that just keep going and going. Filling it with epoxy didn't work either. In the beginning I used only cerium ox and had good results on polish. Some years later, I started experimenting with alum ox and felt I was getting better results on most rock types. So I took all my polished rocks of the most common material--3 year's worth--and put them all back in 1,000 SC to get the polish off and took them through polish again with alum ox. They turned out fantastic. Whether it was helpful to do that 1,000 stage or whether than was a waste is unknown to me. From your photo, I would suggest more time in rough grind step 1. Sometimes weeks more--as long as it takes to smooth out dents and such. Of the rocks in the bowl, about 1/4 to 1/3 of what I can see are so fractured as to be discards. LOL - I can see it now! Man Vs. Rock = A new series on the Discovery Network!
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Jan 7, 2021 12:32:26 GMT -5
As for re-tumbling polished stones the only ones I usually do are those that broke or fractured along the way. In the sorting after coarse stage there will always be a few that go in the erosion control bucket for my friends Ranchette. In my case I have a special plastic shoe box that I put my keepers in. I don't get many of those, maybe 1 or 2 rocks per load. If it appears that a rock is going to be competing for a spot in the special box, then I take a lot more time with him in the first stage. For some of the others I put together 1 and 2 pound bags for sale at the Craft Shows. The rest go in the 3 for 1$ totes for sale at the Shows. In a lot of cases I will tell the kids to take an extra 1 or 2. I also sort some tumbled stones by type, Petrified Wood, Tigers Eye, Crazy lace, etc. A few of the lesser pieces of those go in the 3 for $1 tote. Haven't decided how to sell those sorted by type rocks and keep them from getting mixed up with the bargain tote rocks. A few of the larger ones get priced by the piece. The priced pieces of Petrified Wood and Tiger's Eye seem to sell well. This is interesting. Not just the sorting methods but the pricing structures you set for rocks. Well, your rocks are better than mine any way and probably can fetch a higher price.
I also have a couple of 'special' containers. And those ones are flawless. Or to me at least they are.
But the large baskets like the one in the picture are for kids that come over or anyone that wants one. And I got to looking at them and they are kind of an ugly lot. I have not had anyone over in a long time but if I am trying to represent myself on a plate then this need improvement.
Maybe before it was Ok, but now it's not Ok any more.
I think I've just raised my standards a good deal.
Thanks for chiming in. I appreciate your input on this very much!
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Jan 7, 2021 12:36:42 GMT -5
Rarely do I have to re-tumble except in Stage 1. The rocks are re-tumbled and don't get out of stage 1 unless they are free of pits, cracks, etc., and are nicely shaped. Stage 1 does 95% of the work. The other stages are really just scratch removal stages. Yes, this is the way to do it. I am sure.
I used to excuse poor rocks and just say something like ...
"well, this one has a crack. he will never be perfect. but at least it is good" "this one has a tendancy for pits. well, it only has 1 or 2 pits. should be good enough"
I just made excuses and passed on poor rocks.
I've kicked on all of the tumblers again starting last fall. And I'll never get better at tumbling unless I get more critical now.
So I've adopted a similar philosophy as yours. If 120/220 SiC can't take it out, then back in to Stage 1 it goes.
Thanks for chiming in! I really appreciate your input on this too.
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Jan 7, 2021 12:41:56 GMT -5
I haven't tumbled enough rocks to have any to "go back to" yet! LOL I have an idea when that time comes though, I too will be trying a "do-over"! Jason, knowing your standards for cabs, I am sure your tumbles will end up the same quality as well, should you ever get started.
Careful where you tread though! Because in my experience the tumblers can be tricky. One tumbler suddenly becomes 2 tumblers. Then one day you look at they have multiplied and you have 4. They they adopt an illegitimate runt on you (let's call him "Lil Vibey").
And the next thing you know you got a whole herd of em!!
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Jan 7, 2021 12:50:13 GMT -5
Because my goal is always to tumble to perfection, by the time I get rocks out of 220 and 600 I seldom have to turn back. But, I have learned that by storing the polished rocks in a bowl and stirring them up now and then so they click against each other on purpose, imperfections that I didn't know were there, such as almost invisible hairline cracks, will come to show. I put them back in whatever stage is appropriate, or give them away. One of my rocks is now in its 5th year of continuous tumbling. It WAS an agate that was the size of an orange. It's now a very small egg. There are problem areas that just never go away. I hate this rock, but it's man against the rock now. What looked like a small pit that would grind out ended up being a tubular hole that just keep going and going. Filling it with epoxy didn't work either. In the beginning I used only cerium ox and had good results on polish. Some years later, I started experimenting with alum ox and felt I was getting better results on most rock types. So I took all my polished rocks of the most common material--3 year's worth--and put them all back in 1,000 SC to get the polish off and took them through polish again with alum ox. They turned out fantastic. Whether it was helpful to do that 1,000 stage or whether than was a waste is unknown to me. From your photo, I would suggest more time in rough grind step 1. Sometimes weeks more--as long as it takes to smooth out dents and such. Of the rocks in the bowl, about 1/4 to 1/3 of what I can see are so fractured as to be discards. These are some interesting points Bob.
First of all your standards are higher no doubt.
The picture you are looking at includes some of my original tumbles too, from my very first batch (which I only ran in Stage 1 for 1 week). Part of my original tumbling kit. I guess I felt like I needed to keep them that way for posterity reasons. Or maybe for reference. I'm not sure, but they never did get put back to work.
I also had a rock the size of a large baseball. It was hard material. After 12 weeks of not reducing at all I gave up on it and pulled it from the tumbler. I guess I felt like I had other rocks that were willing to get reshaped and reduced and this one wasn't getting with the program. Not sure if I will ever put him back. My largest tumbler is only 12 lbs., and he clunks around in there.
Even today I don't have rock 'perfection' in mind though. I guess I have a ways to go until I get there.
Honestly if absolute perfection as my goal, then I would need to be rolling 100 lbs. of stones, as I only find that 5% of my rocks truly end up perfect.
Thanks for your input. It is greatly appreciated!
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Post by Bob on Jan 7, 2021 13:59:55 GMT -5
I actually have one rock in it's 6th yr of continuous tumbling. It was about the dia of a golfball and 3/8" thick in the beginning. Now it's maybe 25% smaller. I guess that means its Mohs is something incredibly high. Its rather ordinary looking, and I must have picked it up off the ground somewhere in N Amer. It has one crack that I didn't think was very deep, but man oh man this rock literally has no detectable change in even a month in rough grind. Makes one wonder how in the heck this is possible.
This, and that agate I mentioned, are the two recordsetting rocks so far in my tumbling career.
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Post by Bob on Jan 7, 2021 14:14:49 GMT -5
I certainly don't mean to imply that is the goal of rock tumbling. In fact, maybe perfection isn't the right word to use because it sorta implies that not perfect is not good and that isn't true. But saying perfection, or perfectly tumbled rocks, is a lot easier than writing rocks without visible fractures, pits, porous areas, non-smooth concavities, and bad polish shines. What happened is for some reason I was born with a lot of patience. It helps me in my chosen profession which is advising and guiding others in a particular area of life. And, as a backpacker, it really helps to survive out there especially when doing a long desert hike where one can see the destination two hard days away. And when I was young, I spent a few years as a cabinetmaker building mostly stained hardwood cabinets. Properly sanding wood to be stained takes a whole lot of patience otherwise the end result is terrible. So when I got into tumbling, I had no problem with letting that barrel go a full week w/o peeking inside. And if the rocks didn't look ready after more weeks, or more months, and sometimes even more, I don't stress about the patience required and just do it. So I thought to myself, why not just let them go and end up with "perfect" rocks to be a bit different than the average rock tumbler out there? So after accumulating rocks for a year, I went through every single finished one and said from here on out no more less than perfect and it's been fun. It means I discard a whole lot more maybe than anyone else after rough grind too! Right now I've got a batch of rutilated smoky quartz in rough grind. Every single rock has some major problem it seems and at most 10% of the whole batch might make it through to the end given my pickiness.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 7, 2021 14:54:56 GMT -5
Very common practice here. Either a rock gets past stage one inspection with a flaw or a flaw pops up in the later stages. For the most part that is only going to be a single flaw so I take those rocks and hold them up to the diamond wheel for about 10 seconds and then send them back to the tumbler for an express ride. Just a week in stage one then back to the vibe. Flaw on the left side of the stone quick grind on it. I tried to remove most of the black line while I was at it. Finished product Chuck
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Post by Bob on Jan 7, 2021 15:46:37 GMT -5
Now I really appreciate those photos!
This month I'm setting up a used 10" lapidary saw to deal with the large amount of material (estimated 500lbs) that needs some problem area sawn off. Finally found a used one on eBay that I would go for. And hope before end of year to have my wet arbor with 8" grinding wheels set up too so I can do some of what you are doing and save months of grinding and also buying coarse grit.
Still I don't want to do too much. The random shape of rocks in nature is what appeals a lot to me. For instance, some of the pieces of grey chert I've tumbled that have strange and twisty even at times helical shapes are some of my favs.
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Jan 8, 2021 12:53:31 GMT -5
I actually have one rock in it's 6th yr of continuous tumbling. It was about the dia of a golfball and 3/8" thick in the beginning. Now it's maybe 25% smaller. I guess that means its Mohs is something incredibly high. Its rather ordinary looking, and I must have picked it up off the ground somewhere in N Amer. It has one crack that I didn't think was very deep, but man oh man this rock literally has no detectable change in even a month in rough grind. Makes one wonder how in the heck this is possible. This, and that agate I mentioned, are the two recordsetting rocks so far in my tumbling career. Quite admirable, Bob. I think that it would be pretty cool to see both of these long term projects some day. Maybe even before they are finished. It would be nice to know what kind of rock the golf ball sized one is. But I can't imagine. I just don't know enough about harder material. Thanks for sharing!
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Jan 8, 2021 12:59:42 GMT -5
I certainly don't mean to imply that is the goal of rock tumbling. In fact, maybe perfection isn't the right word to use because it sorta implies that not perfect is not good and that isn't true. But saying perfection, or perfectly tumbled rocks, is a lot easier than writing rocks without visible fractures, pits, porous areas, non-smooth concavities, and bad polish shines. What happened is for some reason I was born with a lot of patience. It helps me in my chosen profession which is advising and guiding others in a particular area of life. And, as a backpacker, it really helps to survive out there especially when doing a long desert hike where one can see the destination two hard days away. And when I was young, I spent a few years as a cabinetmaker building mostly stained hardwood cabinets. Properly sanding wood to be stained takes a whole lot of patience otherwise the end result is terrible. So when I got into tumbling, I had no problem with letting that barrel go a full week w/o peeking inside. And if the rocks didn't look ready after more weeks, or more months, and sometimes even more, I don't stress about the patience required and just do it. So I thought to myself, why not just let them go and end up with "perfect" rocks to be a bit different than the average rock tumbler out there? So after accumulating rocks for a year, I went through every single finished one and said from here on out no more less than perfect and it's been fun. It means I discard a whole lot more maybe than anyone else after rough grind too! Right now I've got a batch of rutilated smoky quartz in rough grind. Every single rock has some major problem it seems and at most 10% of the whole batch might make it through to the end given my pickiness. Nah, I think I understood your context in the use of the word 'perfection'. I believe that I have two crystal bowls that I put my 'perfect' ones in. While none of them may actually be perfect, it is still the best I have and I can't see why anyone would want to tumble them more. So, perfect doesn't mean it literally.
I hear ya about looking in the tumbler before the week was over. I used to do that. I used to get more excited about the process. But not any more. Too many tumblers going now to babysit. However I do pull randoms from the Vibratory tumbler all the time. It is fun for me. Fast and easy too.
I throw a lot in to the landscaping too. Some part done, others more finished. Honestly some parts of the yard are getting more colorful and attractive then the others cause of the rocks I toss in there. Ones that will never make it to a plate or bowl. I understand I think.
Thanks for sharing more of your experience. It helps to give me perspective.
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Jan 8, 2021 13:02:51 GMT -5
Very common practice here. Either a rock gets past stage one inspection with a flaw or a flaw pops up in the later stages. For the most part that is only going to be a single flaw so I take those rocks and hold them up to the diamond wheel for about 10 seconds and then send them back to the tumbler for an express ride. Just a week in stage one then back to the vibe. Flaw on the left side of the stone quick grind on it. I tried to remove most of the black line while I was at it. Finished product Chuck I like the before and after. And this is a superior specimen and example you provided here. I think I can understand exactly what you mean here. Thank you for posting them. 'finished' looks plenty finished to me.
I have a large chunk of Chalcedony that I am working on, and it will be much futher from perfect than your example here when I am 'finished' with it. For sure.
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Post by Bob on Jan 8, 2021 15:26:34 GMT -5
I have large glass bowls all over the house with finished rocks in them, only sorted to the extent if they will fall through a 1/4" mesh, next a 1/2", and then anything larger than that all the way up to small grapefruit. The larger monsters I keep on the floor.
In the first 3 years, I was giving away polished rocks about as fast I as made them. But I realized I was giving away all my rocks! I wanted to keep some selfishly, so after that I greatly curtailed how much I give away. Now, finally, I have a pretty good collection to show when people are over.
Last year, I started a bowl labelled "Bob's favs, never give away!" to prevent mistakes because I like to be generous when friends are over and they love leaving with polished rocks. Funny how one can fall in love with individual rocks. Some of my favs are there because I think the pattern is very unusual, like a piece of banded chert because one set of bands is almost perpendicular to another set because of some geological fracture long ago. Others are there because I've only seen one of two of them or that color or pattern etc. Others because of the sheer difficulty of getting them finally done! And, a few because I'm so fond of where I found them in nature and the rock reminds me of that hike or whatever.
Now though that I'm getting quite a bit of finished rocks in the house, some friends have suggested started to sort them by rock type, or color, in these bowls. So as a test, I went through everything and put all my chert in one bowl. I must admit I find this kind of sorting interesting and may continue to do more of it.
I remarried this July, and my Chinese wife keeps asking me "My God, these rocks are growing, what are we going to do with all of them in 20 years!" A good answer never comes to mind, but hey, we all need a hobby or vice right? I have no addiction to cannabis or alcohol or drugs or food--just tumbling rocks.
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