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Post by Peruano on Jan 9, 2021 11:59:27 GMT -5
I glue nearly anything with a flat edge to a wooden block to facilitate good vice insertion and being able to saw clear up to the last possible slab from the rough. I use wood glue (any kind available but preferably not super water resistant). Usually I use a hand hack saw to cut through the 2 x 2 block as close to the stone as possible to facilitate a quick soak in water that will float the wafer thin residual wood from the stone. I know, you don't want to hand saw, but it takes less than 60 seconds to do (and I need the exercise). Of course you can make one more cut with your diamond blade but that takes more time and especially saw time. If the cut is too far from the stone/glue contact, the water soak is longer (24 or 48 hours) as opposed to a few to 12 hours if its thin (better water penetration). I use a hack saw because blades are cheap and after the occasional accidental sawing against stone, they do get dulled and become slow. I did try my reciprocating saw with a wood blade (cheap enough) but hard to control when it started jumping around and thus less accurate for cutting thin slice close to the stone.
So . . . what's new? Well I always clamp the wood block in my wood vice and several times when I have clamped it really close to the glue/stone margin, the stone has popped off with no or little effort. Presumably I am compressing the wood block just enough with the mechanical advantage of the vice to make the glue release. Instant removal using the vice, rather than the saw. It may not work all the time, and probably not on 4 x 4 blocks, but 90% of my glue jobs are on 2 x 2 s that fit well in my vice and seem vulnerable to mechanical persuasion. A quick water soak softens any remaining glue which is removed with a knife, or a toothbrush. So . . . worth a try to save a minute and get back to the task of producing beautiful things. Happy New Year everyone.
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NDK
Cave Dweller 
Member since January 2009
Posts: 9,440
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Post by NDK on Jan 9, 2021 13:05:36 GMT -5
This is an interesting observation. I haven't glued to wood yet but have been considering it. I'll try to remember this for when I do.
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Post by jasoninsd on Jan 9, 2021 13:20:31 GMT -5
Great thread topic! Thanks for sharing what you've learned about "popping off" in the vise!  |
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Post by greig on Jan 9, 2021 14:21:47 GMT -5
Interesting process. How long do you leave the wet glue to cure before you stress the joint by cabbing? Do you reuse your wooden dowels or cut new ones for every cab?
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NDK
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 9,440
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Post by NDK on Jan 9, 2021 14:50:34 GMT -5
greig, the information above is for slabbing, not cabbing. For cabbing I personally use super glue with an aluminum dop stick. After cutting the cab I use a torch to heat the aluminum rod and the super glue softens. Cab removes easily without fear of a blow out of the rock's surface.
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 9, 2021 20:31:28 GMT -5
I have been gluing rocks to wooden blocks for 2 or 3 years. For my 10 inch saw I glue to the end of 3 or 4 inch long 2X4's using Interior rated Wood Glue. Usually let them cure at least 5 or 6 days. I started using 4x4's and 4X6's for cuts on the 24" saw. I allow a longer curing time for these, usually 2 weeks. To remove I throw them in the soap bucket, the 2x4's usually release in 3 or 4 days, the 4x4's and 4x6"s can take as long as 10 to 12 days.
This process ties up the end piece of rock for 10 days or more for the 2X4, and about a month for the larger pieces of wood. I don't find this to be an issue as I have so many rocks to cut. I have 25 2x4" blocks that I have been using for over 2 years, gluing groups of 10 blocks in each batch. Would estimated that these pieces of wood have been glued , then oil soaked, then water soaked between 20 and 25 times. Suspect that these super-treated pieces of wood are now immune to any sort of decay.
I have also learned that gluing the polished side of a rock is not a good idea as it will most likely release while cutting. Same with shortcutting the glue curing period.
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Post by Peruano on Jan 10, 2021 9:02:36 GMT -5
A couple of additional comments. Typically I only use a 24 hr cure time for the wood glue, but would use more for large stones. Secondly cool temps slow curing, and having an unheated shop which gets as low as 40 degrees at night means I have to take blocks into the den to cure. They make a dynamic lapidary display on the hearth. Once set up I don't protect them from the cold. Wood glue does get brittle with freezing temperatures, and winter conditions may have contributed to the ease of popping stones with the vice compression. The process works the other way too. If the last remaining slab on the block is really thin, and the thin wood remaining after its sawed off of the block is soaked in water, very rarely the wood will apparently swell enough to fracture the thin stone. So wood does break stone occasionally.
I too reuse my stubs, but typically use a chop saw to produce a fresh cut end. Inadvertently my used stubs are "cured" in the New Mexico sun for weeks before I get around to a "cut ends off of all old stubs" day.
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,723 
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Post by Fossilman on Jan 10, 2021 10:53:54 GMT -5
That's how I do my rocks too..... Works like a charm and glue is inexpensive..
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,723
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Post by Fossilman on Jan 10, 2021 10:55:00 GMT -5
I have been gluing rocks to wooden blocks for 2 or 3 years. For my 10 inch saw I glue to the end of 3 or 4 inch long 2X4's using Interior rated Wood Glue. Usually let them cure at least 5 or 6 days. I started using 4x4's and 4X6's for cuts on the 24" saw. I allow a longer curing time for these, usually 2 weeks. To remove I throw them in the soap bucket, the 2x4's usually release in 3 or 4 days, the 4x4's and 4x6"s can take as long as 10 to 12 days. This process ties up the end piece of rock for 10 days or more for the 2X4, and about a month for the larger pieces of wood. I don't find this to be an issue as I have so many rocks to cut. I have 25 2x4" blocks that I have been using for over 2 years, gluing groups of 10 blocks in each batch. Would estimated that these pieces of wood have been glued , then oil soaked, then water soaked between 20 and 25 times. Suspect that these super-treated pieces of wood are now immune to any sort of decay. I have also learned that gluing the polished side of a rock is not a good idea as it will most likely release while cutting. Same with shortcutting the glue curing period. It's like xmas all over again....Hahaha |
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 10, 2021 11:28:56 GMT -5
One other note, with the larger rocks on the 4x4's and 4x6's with their longer curing time I have been putting date glued on the wood with permanent marker. No need to go looking for the glue date, it's with the rock.
Don't do this with the 2x4's.
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Post by manofglass on Jan 10, 2021 12:21:42 GMT -5
I got a bad bottle of glue the rocks fell off the blocks dished a 18” blade
Not all new bottles of wood glue are good
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RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,640
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Post by RWA3006 on Jan 10, 2021 12:30:53 GMT -5
If memory serves, I think woodman glues a thin layer of cardboard between the rock and wood which makes removal easy. |
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Post by stardiamond on Jan 10, 2021 14:52:09 GMT -5
I was using water glass with generally good results. It was not holding with larger rocks. I had some gorilla wood glue that was old and did not work. I got some fresh Gorilla and tried it with cardboard from a USPS flat rate box and the cardboard got soaked with oil and came apart. I glued directly to 2x4 pieces and gave the glue a week to dry. It held and I was able to soak off most of the last slabs after about a week. I normally work with small rough. The pieces that caused problems were large and my saw blade was out of round and although cutting fine there was a lot of vibration. I bought a 10 inch slab saw for the small rough and will go back to water glass as an adhesive.
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Tommy
Administrator 
Member since January 2013
Posts: 12,989
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Post by Tommy on Jan 10, 2021 16:34:02 GMT -5
So . . . what's new? Well I always clamp the wood block in my wood vice and several times when I have clamped it really close to the glue/stone margin, the stone has popped off with no or little effort. Presumably I am compressing the wood block just enough with the mechanical advantage of the vice to make the glue release. Instant removal using the vice, rather than the saw. It may not work all the time, and probably not on 4 x 4 blocks, but 90% of my glue jobs are on 2 x 2 s that fit well in my vice and seem vulnerable to mechanical persuasion. A quick water soak softens any remaining glue which is removed with a knife, or a toothbrush. So . . . worth a try to save a minute and get back to the task of producing beautiful things. Happy New Year everyone. Happy New Year Tom. Regarding using the vice to compress the wood - back when I was cabbing and still dopping I used 7/16 dowel rod exclusively and also removed them from the stone with a hack saw. After clamping and cutting hundreds of them off the rock I accidentally clamped one too close to the stone and just like that it popped right off... hmmm... that eventually became my method of choice for my first attempting to get finished cabs off the dowel. I say first attempt because I ruined a handful of good cabs by squeezing the wood too hard in the vice and taking a divot out of the back of the cab. Edit: I should add that I was using JB Weld with the wooden dowels - little different animal but the squeezing the wood in the vice worked a lot of the time. |
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,359
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Post by quartz on Jan 10, 2021 22:58:02 GMT -5
I have found hot water, near boiling, speeds the release, glue or waterglass. Hotplate and pot at Goodwill cheap.
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NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,688
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Post by NRG on Jan 16, 2021 23:05:10 GMT -5
Cheers Tom!!
I make the last cut at the glue joint. Properly calculated there can be near zero waste.
I learned this from watching the sawmill dudes on YouTube and how they avoided the pith! Extrapolating from there.
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rixrocks
having dreams about rocks
Member since September 2019
Posts: 51
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Post by rixrocks on Jan 18, 2021 19:57:17 GMT -5
I use water glass and haven't had a problem so far. Just drop it in a bucket of hot water and let it soak overnight. It comes right off.
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