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Post by miket on Feb 12, 2021 13:23:52 GMT -5
Still practicing, still trying to learn. One thing I have discovered is that, at least in my case, shape matters. It's difficult to get the wire to follow sharper points and stay put. Thanks for looking!
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adrian65
Cave Dweller 
Arch to golden memories and to great friends.
Member since February 2007
Posts: 10,790
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Post by adrian65 on Feb 12, 2021 14:45:51 GMT -5
To wrap the sharp points, bend the wire firstly when not around the stone. Use a plier to bend it as sharp as you can. Then you can open the wire to mach the angle of the stone.
The groove must not be as deep as the thickness of the wire. It's better if the wire exceedes a little bit out of the groove. Then you can file, then polish the excess material and this adds a lot to the final look.
Adrian
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Post by jasoninsd on Feb 12, 2021 14:52:30 GMT -5
First off, the cab: It has fortifications, so I love it! I like the shape you chose and I think it's a great capture on the fortification patterning.  (The colors made me think it was a Teepee at first.) I see what you're talking about with the wire trying to keep in the groove at the bottom. I know the "best" answer is going to be not to make the angle at the corner that sharp...but I'm wondering if anyone has a solution for when it IS that sharp of a turn. Can the wire be "crimped" any further, or is that as sharp of an angle the wire will allow? I can't tell if the angle of the camera when the picture was taken is making the groove look like it was cut too high on the girdle or if it's just the angle of the picture making it look that way... I hope you don't take this as "picking it apart"...I seriously think you're coming along great with the groove wrapping! Edit: adrian65 was answering a couple questions I had while I was still typing! LOL |
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Post by miket on Feb 12, 2021 15:36:46 GMT -5
To wrap the sharp points, bend the wire firstly when not around the stone. Use a plier to bend it as sharp as you can. Then you can open the wire to mach the angle of the stone. The groove must not be as deep as the thickness of the wire. It's better if the wire exceedes a little bit out of the groove. Then you can file, then polish the excess material and this adds a lot to the final look. Adrian I did actually attempt to bend the wire at the bottom first, it must not have been a sharp enough bend... And I think I might be going a little too deep still with the grooves. Thanks for the tips, Adrian!
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Post by miket on Feb 12, 2021 15:50:19 GMT -5
This was one that my son found in the grasslands here and cut- but I agree it does look like a Teepee. I believe that if a person had the right type of pliers you could get a sharp enough bend in the wire... Now you're making me point out my flaws, jasoninsd! Just teasing, I know my work isn't perfect by a long shot. The cab actually isn't perfectly flat on the back. I had to push down on one end while cutting the groove and do one half, then turn the cab and do the same for the other half- and make the grooves meet in the middle. I don't believe that it's too high, but I've never really read anything that says exactly where to put the groove on the girdle. Here's a pic from the side, as you can plainly see I cut the groove too deep. Again. And no, like I've said before I consider everything I do to be practice, and I put stuff on here because I want input. Good and/or bad!   |
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Post by RickB on Feb 12, 2021 15:51:25 GMT -5
Very nice Mike. Let's consider this one a contender for "Fairburn Friday".
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Post by miket on Feb 12, 2021 15:59:41 GMT -5
Very nice Mike. Let's consider this one a contender for "Fairburn Friday". Thanks, Rick! I've kind of let Fairburn Friday slip, sorry... Between everything going on and cold as hell temps I haven't been able to hound much. Maybe I'll rummage around here in a bit and see what I have in my stash... |
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Post by jasoninsd on Feb 12, 2021 16:00:56 GMT -5
You're awesome! So, ever since you've said something awhile back about having issues with the depth of cut, I've been racking my brain with possible solutions...because I knew I'd be right in your shoes in due time!  I've thought of two possible solutions; one visual and the other mechanical. I just got my Gryphette, so I need a little more time to work on the mechanical solution...but I have something in mind. As far as the "visual", it won't keep a person from going too far into the cab like a mechanical stop would work...but, if a person put a DOT on the edge of the groove bit with a sharpie, it would give a reference point. Meaning if you marked a spot 0.75mm from the edge, that would mark the width of 21g wire. So, as the bit is spinning, that spot would look like a circular reference "line" as it spun around. That should be a way to reference the depth of cut as a person's going around the cab cutting the groove. I think the mechanical "stop" would work best, but I haven't figured out the best way to do it yet...yet! |
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Post by rockjunquie on Feb 12, 2021 16:02:39 GMT -5
Despite your difficulties, I think it turned out really well and I love the cab. |
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Post by miket on Feb 12, 2021 16:10:08 GMT -5
You're awesome! So, ever since you've said something awhile back about having issues with the depth of cut, I've been racking my brain with possible solutions...because I knew I'd be right in your shoes in due time! I've thought of two possible solutions; one visual and the other mechanical. I just got my Gryphette, so I need a little more time to work on the mechanical solution...but I have something in mind. As far as the "visual", it won't keep a person from going too far into the cab like a mechanical stop would work...but, if a person put a DOT on the edge of the groove bit with a sharpie, it would give a reference point. Meaning if you marked a spot 0.75mm from the edge, that would mark the width of 21g wire. So, as the bit is spinning, that spot would look like a circular reference "line" as it spun around. That should be a way to reference the depth of cut as a person's going around the cab cutting the groove. I think the mechanical "stop" would work best, but I haven't figured out the best way to do it yet...yet! I like the idea of marking the bit, I might have to try that. I think you're going to really like using the Gryphette.
One word of advice when you start wrapping. Ok, two words. Flush cutters. I finally bought a pair, just a cheap pair of Klein brand flush cutters from Ace Hardware here in town and they make all the difference in the world. Way better than what I was using.
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Post by miket on Feb 12, 2021 16:11:32 GMT -5
Despite your difficulties, I think it turned out really well and I love the cab. Thanks Tela, my friend! I like it, too, despite the imperfections... Each and every one I do is a learning experience!
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Feb 15, 2021 13:37:23 GMT -5
I think it came out really nice. I think it would be hard for me to not chip the rock when cutting a groove. And maybe the bail would be harder because I have less wire to work with. Just thinking. Also I think it is un-"Fair" that I don't have any rocks that look like this in my neighborhood.  |
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Post by miket on Feb 15, 2021 16:06:10 GMT -5
I think it came out really nice. I think it would be hard for me to not chip the rock when cutting a groove. And maybe the bail would be harder because I have less wire to work with. Just thinking. Also I think it is un-"Fair" that I don't have any rocks that look like this in my neighborhood. Thanks. As you can see by the second picture, there are a few chips in the groove. If I hadn't gone so deep and the wire was flush and filed with the groove they wouldn't be noticeable. The hardest part of the bail for me is taking the two wires and twisting them at the top- I've chipped a couple cabs that way, gotten mad at myself and thrown them back to the wild.  You should try a groove wrap sometime, you might just like it. Oh, those Fairburns are nice but they're definitely a curse. It's 8 degrees here right now, the wind is blowing and the Fairburns are out there somewhere covered in snow. Grrrr.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Feb 15, 2021 21:53:41 GMT -5
I really like it miket! Love the cab - gorgeous stone.
Here's my suggestion for controlling depth of cut. I don't know if this would work or not, but I think Vince's jury rigging brain is starting to wear off on me. 
I would try to find a plastic washer that is the correct size that when it's slid on top of the grinder bit it acts as a stop for cutting deeper. The middle of the washer might have to be reamed out to fit over the bit. I would measure my wire and make the stop just a touch short of that and then do what adrian65 suggested filing the wire flush with the stone.
I have no clue if this would work or not, but it's an idea.
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Post by miket on Feb 15, 2021 22:30:00 GMT -5
I really like it miket ! Love the cab - gorgeous stone.
Here's my suggestion for controlling depth of cut. I don't know if this would work or not, but I think Vince's jury rigging brain is starting to wear off on me.
I would try to find a plastic washer that is the correct size that when it's slid on top of the grinder bit it acts as a stop for cutting deeper. The middle of the washer might have to be reamed out to fit over the bit. I would measure my wire and make the stop just a touch short of that and then do what adrian65 suggested filing the wire flush with the stone.
I have no clue if this would work or not, but it's an idea.
Thanks Robin- and thanks for the suggestion, that's a pretty good idea! |
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Post by jasoninsd on Feb 15, 2021 22:41:21 GMT -5
I really like it miket ! Love the cab - gorgeous stone.
Here's my suggestion for controlling depth of cut. I don't know if this would work or not, but I think Vince's jury rigging brain is starting to wear off on me.
I would try to find a plastic washer that is the correct size that when it's slid on top of the grinder bit it acts as a stop for cutting deeper. The middle of the washer might have to be reamed out to fit over the bit. I would measure my wire and make the stop just a touch short of that and then do what adrian65 suggested filing the wire flush with the stone.
I have no clue if this would work or not, but it's an idea.
I'm glad to see Vince is being a positive influence on you! Out here, we call it "Redneck Engineering"! LOL So, I thought about that when I was trying to come up with a "mechanical" stop to control the depth of cut. If something is placed on top of the bit, whatever it is will be moving/spinning. If it's a metal washer of sorts, it runs the risk of scratching the cab. If it's a plastic washer, I'm curious to know if it would take the force or friction without deforming. That might very will be the answer though. I was thinking if a strip of plastic (not sure what just yet) was placed under the bit - while securing it to the platform - it would act as a depth stop and not be in a position to be spinning like the washer would be... |
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Post by stephan on Feb 16, 2021 0:18:49 GMT -5
I really like it miket ! Love the cab - gorgeous stone.
Here's my suggestion for controlling depth of cut. I don't know if this would work or not, but I think Vince's jury rigging brain is starting to wear off on me.
I would try to find a plastic washer that is the correct size that when it's slid on top of the grinder bit it acts as a stop for cutting deeper. The middle of the washer might have to be reamed out to fit over the bit. I would measure my wire and make the stop just a touch short of that and then do what adrian65 suggested filing the wire flush with the stone.
I have no clue if this would work or not, but it's an idea.
I'm glad to see Vince is being a positive influence on you! Out here, we call it "Redneck Engineering"! LOL So, I thought about that when I was trying to come up with a "mechanical" stop to control the depth of cut. If something is placed on top of the bit, whatever it is will be moving/spinning. If it's a metal washer of sorts, it runs the risk of scratching the cab. If it's a plastic washer, I'm curious to know if it would take the force or friction without deforming. That might very will be the answer though. I was thinking if a strip of plastic (not sure what just yet) was placed under the bit - while securing it to the platform - it would act as a depth stop and not be in a position to be spinning like the washer would be... Teflon-coated metal? |
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Post by stephan on Feb 16, 2021 0:23:13 GMT -5
And no, like I've said before I consider everything I do to be practice, and I put stuff on here because I want input. Good and/or bad! Is  considered input? |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Feb 16, 2021 8:37:30 GMT -5
I'm glad to see Vince is being a positive influence on you! Out here, we call it "Redneck Engineering"! LOL So, I thought about that when I was trying to come up with a "mechanical" stop to control the depth of cut. If something is placed on top of the bit, whatever it is will be moving/spinning. If it's a metal washer of sorts, it runs the risk of scratching the cab. If it's a plastic washer, I'm curious to know if it would take the force or friction without deforming. That might very will be the answer though. I was thinking if a strip of plastic (not sure what just yet) was placed under the bit - while securing it to the platform - it would act as a depth stop and not be in a position to be spinning like the washer would be... A sturdy plastic like delrin or something similar should work just fine. It would need to be a snug fit, but I think it's doable. Don't think there would be much friction if it's snug and you hopefully not be rubbing against the outside of it much because when you get to it, you're suppose to stop. 
Come to think of it, you could also coat a metal one in that rubber dip stuff for tool handles.
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Feb 16, 2021 8:58:37 GMT -5
With luck, you might find nylon bushings at a hardware store. Might have to "turn" the OD down a bit to get exactly what you want. If you have to do that you might as well just make something from scratch.
Concentricity will be the problem. That's why I was thinking off-the-shelf bushings, even if they had to be nested like plastic arbor bushings.
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(The colors made me think it was a Teepee at first.)
considered input? 
Nov 14, 2024 18:17:57 GMT -5
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Nov 15, 2024 17:44:51 GMT -5
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