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Post by jasoninsd on May 1, 2021 10:41:25 GMT -5
Forgot to mention this - I'm sure it's been said by other people in many posts.
Some materials just don't "like" a particular grit. It's okay to skip the 8K or the 14K to test that out if a cab is showing scratches.
That's actually the first mention of this...in this thread at least. I need to make a spreadsheet with all this information for each material! LOL That may be the case of what's happening...but...they're scratching everything I've thrown at them so far. And I keep saying scratches, but they're closer to "gouges" than minute scratches that I would expect for a material that didn't like that particular grit. Which again leads me to think the issue is clumped diamonds somewhere on the surface that I can't seem to find or eliminate... |
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Post by jasoninsd on May 1, 2021 11:10:09 GMT -5
I’m sure you’ve been on eastwind’s website, if you haven’t then check out their resources where you will find break-in instructions. There they mention specifics about deep scratches occuring from their finer belts during initial use. I think they probably aren’t anywhere near broken in, and will eventually be fine. The dressing stick is only meant to break the vacuum between the diamonds on the new belt, otherwise they are used to expose new diamond to make your blade, belt, or disc more aggressive. The dressing stick is not going to break in the diamond. I hadn't actually until you posted this...then I went and looked. When Eastwind sent that dressing stick, they sent several printed pages of instructions - which is this resource page printed out. So, I will sheepishly admit I hadn't gone to their website (I forget about doing that kind of thing sometimes)...but...I had read all the instructions they sent, so I did actually read the whole resource page. You may in fact be right about not giving these enough time to be broken in. I don't have the experience yet to know for sure. I thought running the agates over the surface for as long as I did, then running the dressing stick over the surface like I did, would have been enough to eliminate the scratching...but like I said, I don't know enough to determine if it really was or not. I'm glad you said something about this... |
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Post by jasoninsd on May 2, 2021 9:19:08 GMT -5
I’m sure you’ve been on eastwind’s website, if you haven’t then check out their resources where you will find break-in instructions. There they mention specifics about deep scratches occuring from their finer belts during initial use. I think they probably aren’t anywhere near broken in, and will eventually be fine. The dressing stick is only meant to break the vacuum between the diamonds on the new belt, otherwise they are used to expose new diamond to make your blade, belt, or disc more aggressive. The dressing stick is not going to break in the diamond. I wanted to give your thoughts on this a chance - as I really do want to figure this out.  So, I spent yesterday afternoon doing what I could with these disks. I dressed them again, with a 400 grit dressing stick this time - but then spent quite some time running the edge of a prairie agate I have dopped slowly over the surface while the disk was running - slow and fast. These prairie agates are some of the hardest material I have on hand (they have to be darn close to an 8 on the Mohs scale). And of course to my chagrin, I'm still seeing scratches. My question is this then...how long and what process is necessary to break them in? Trying to break the disks in using cabs that have already been through the 3000 stage, just to scratch them up, is extremely counterintuitive (and very disheartening to me). I understand the response to "how long" is going to be "as long as it takes to stop the scratches"...so I guess I'm looking for a ballpark idea. Do I run an agate over the surface for several hours...does it take days...weeks? And what is the best "method" to break these in? I just can't keep using mostly finished cabs to try and break these disks in, if in fact this is what the issue is...my emotional well-being can't take the constant let-down and one step forward and three steps back method! LOL |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on May 2, 2021 10:03:31 GMT -5
I am convinced that there is a diamond "clump" on that disc somewhere.
Let me ask you this -- have you tried to isolate where it is on the disc? What I would do is use a scrap piece of stone (like a prairie agate or any really hard agate) and get it worked up through 3000 on one part of it. Then go to that 8000 disc and start at the outside rim and just hold it on the disc while it's running slow and see if it scratches. Don't move the stone - you're trying to locate the offending spot. If it's not scratched there, move it in the width of the stone and do it again until you find the offending area. Use a sharpie to mark where it is on the disc (it won't hurt it). Then get a pocket knife or something similar with a metal edge and hold it over that spot to see if you can pull it out. You'd be able to hear it softly ticking against the blade if there is something there. Use copious amounts of water doing this so that if you do get it out it will be washed off of the disc in short order.
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Post by jasoninsd on May 2, 2021 10:53:18 GMT -5
I am convinced that there is a diamond "clump" on that disc somewhere.
Let me ask you this -- have you tried to isolate where it is on the disc? What I would do is use a scrap piece of stone (like a prairie agate or any really hard agate) and get it worked up through 3000 on one part of it. Then go to that 8000 disc and start at the outside rim and just hold it on the disc while it's running slow and see if it scratches. Don't move the stone - you're trying to locate the offending spot. If it's not scratched there, move it in the width of the stone and do it again until you find the offending area. Use a sharpie to mark where it is on the disc (it won't hurt it). Then get a pocket knife or something similar with a metal edge and hold it over that spot to see if you can pull it out. You'd be able to hear it softly ticking against the blade if there is something there. Use copious amounts of water doing this so that if you do get it out it will be washed off of the disc in short order.
I too am pretty sure...but I wanted to do my due diligence to make sure it isn't anything else. I have paid attention to the "where". It seems like it's in the outer half of the disk. I know that isn't narrowing it down much. I'm going to wait to do anything further to these particular disks until after I talk to Eastwind tomorrow... I wanted to give your thoughts on this a chance - as I really do want to figure this out. So, I spent yesterday afternoon doing what I could with these disks. I dressed them again, with a 400 grit dressing stick this time - but then spent quite some time running the edge of a prairie agate I have dopped slowly over the surface while the disk was running - slow and fast. These prairie agates are some of the hardest material I have on hand (they have to be darn close to an 8 on the Mohs scale). And of course to my chagrin, I'm still seeing scratches. My question is this then...how long and what process is necessary to break them in? Trying to break the disks in using cabs that have already been through the 3000 stage, just to scratch them up, is extremely counterintuitive (and very disheartening to me). I understand the response to "how long" is going to be "as long as it takes to stop the scratches"...so I guess I'm looking for a ballpark idea. Do I run an agate over the surface for several hours...does it take days...weeks? And what is the best "method" to break these in? I just can't keep using mostly finished cabs to try and break these disks in, if in fact this is what the issue is...my emotional well-being can't take the constant let-down and one step forward and three steps back method! LOL Here’s what I can offer, since this is relatively uncharted territory for me also. I have brand new 8k and 14k Eastwind belts that I will break in today, your discs are 2/3 the surface area of my belts so that could provide you with a time to go off. My plan is to have two cabs polished through a well worn 3k nova wheel from another machine, then i’m Going to lightly dress the belt for 5-10 seconds. After that I plan to get some really deep scratches in one of the cabs for as long as it takes to convince myself there are no new scratches occuring. Once I’m fairly certain no deep scratches are happening then I’ll test the other cab. I’ll keep track of the time and amount of pressure along with the results, and report back sometime this evening. Honestly, I hope this didn't change your plans for the day...if you're doing this today, just for my information, I'm going to owe you more than a cup of coffee!  If you're thinking you're going to be able to dress the belt within two cabs, then I definitely have something wrong with these disks. I've probably tried to do AT LEAST 10-15 cabs on them...and running a Brazilian Agate slab over them...and a Blackskin Agate slab over them...and a Prairie Agate preform over them - and I'm still getting scratches after all of those... I'm going to contact Eastwind tomorrow and see if they'll replace these headaches. If/when they replace these, the information you come up with today will help me tremendously with the new disks! So, again, I really thank you for letting me know the outcome from today. |
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Post by jasoninsd on May 2, 2021 11:01:57 GMT -5
I will say that I use a lot of pressure on my soft wheels, and probably spend more time on each grit stage than most people. Something like 15-30 minutes depending on the cab and how many times I stop to look at it. With that in mind, and trying to break in the entire belt, I’m thinking a couple hours might be what it takes. I seriously appreciate you letting me know about this. I'll keep an eye out for your results. |
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Post by jasoninsd on May 2, 2021 22:56:23 GMT -5
@jadedvision - Then I'm pretty sure there's more that's going on with my disks...
Thank you again for taking the time to post these.
Did you use a dressing stick prior to starting with the agate? If so, what grit? I have 220 and 400 grit dressing sticks.
Would you please post an update with the amount of time/effort it took to work a piece without scratches appearing?
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on May 3, 2021 9:36:41 GMT -5
Good observation that "normal" scratches disappear from the more rounded areas first.
Have followed this thread with great interest because I like Eastwind laps, and am looking forward to seeing how it is resolved.
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Post by jasoninsd on May 3, 2021 14:53:05 GMT -5
Good observation that "normal" scratches disappear from the more rounded areas first.
Have followed this thread with great interest because I like Eastwind laps, and am looking forward to seeing how it is resolved.
I have to say that I like Eastwind too!! I just got off the phone with Lisa at Eastwind. I spoke to her about my verbal conversation with "their" lapidary guy as well as the online conversations in this particular thread. She was completely understanding and was VERY willing to replace both disks. So, I'll get these off into the mail tomorrow and she'll send me the replacements. I have a tendency to encounter resistance when it comes to a lot of "customer service" issues, and I must say there was NONE of that when speaking with Lisa. She was VERY pleasant and very customer "happiness" oriented. One of my big concerns with this thread was that someone might unnecessarily get a bad impression of Eastwind, so I just want to make sure everyone knows this is turning out to be a very POSITIVE experience so far with them! When the new disks arrive, I'll be trying to mirror the break-in methods reported by @jadedvision... |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on May 3, 2021 19:43:32 GMT -5
Good observation that "normal" scratches disappear from the more rounded areas first.
Have followed this thread with great interest because I like Eastwind laps, and am looking forward to seeing how it is resolved.
I have to say that I like Eastwind too!! I just got off the phone with Lisa at Eastwind. I spoke to her about my verbal conversation with "their" lapidary guy as well as the online conversations in this particular thread. She was completely understanding and was VERY willing to replace both disks. So, I'll get these off into the mail tomorrow and she'll send me the replacements. I have a tendency to encounter resistance when it comes to a lot of "customer service" issues, and I must say there was NONE of that when speaking with Lisa. She was VERY pleasant and very customer "happiness" oriented. One of my big concerns with this thread was that someone might unnecessarily get a bad impression of Eastwind, so I just want to make sure everyone knows this is turning out to be a very POSITIVE experience so far with them! When the new disks arrive, I'll be trying to mirror the break-in methods reported by @jadedvision ... I'm so glad they're replacing them for you! I know Vince would have been really upset if they hadn't because he loves those Eastwind discs. |
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Post by jasoninsd on May 3, 2021 19:54:40 GMT -5
I spent ten more minutes before I was totally convinced that I was removing most all of the initial scratches with the same belt, so I decided to risk scratches in the petrified wood.   A couple shots of the agate after 30 minutes  The petrified wood at 3k before testing     The wood after 15 minutes of sanding with the broken in 8k, no scratches! I think my belt is broken in after 30 minutes of medium to hard pressure with a hard agate, but it might not be any better than my worn 3k. When you break in the new discs use a high domed cab. It takes longer to cover the whole disc, but allows for more pressure to be focused on the disc as opposed to a low dome or slab. Okay, I've got to get this out of the way first...those cabs are gorgeous! That petrified wood is just stellar! Alright, this this will be my plan when the new disks come in: 1. Lightly dress the disks with the 220 grit dressing stick. 2. Clean disks with Dawn using a brush. 3. Lightly dress the disks with the 400 grit dressing stick. 4. Clean disks with Dawn using a brush. 5. Use a cab for 30 minutes or so with medium to heavy pressure. I have a couple Prairie Agates that are probably the hardest material I have. Now, question about using the cab. You said to use the dome of the cab to focus the pressure better. I have two Prairie Agates that are dopped. Would it be more effective to use the "edge" of the preform that is dopped, as it would seem more pressure can be focused using the edge of the cab, rather than a dome? Or, just bight the bullet and use a domed cab already through the 3000 stage for dressing the disk? I know I won't be able to see scratches (or the lack of) until I finally run the domed cab over the 8000...so maybe I just answered my own question. LOL ETA: THANK YOU once again for doing all this for me! |
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Post by jasoninsd on May 3, 2021 20:00:02 GMT -5
I have to say that I like Eastwind too!! I just got off the phone with Lisa at Eastwind. I spoke to her about my verbal conversation with "their" lapidary guy as well as the online conversations in this particular thread. She was completely understanding and was VERY willing to replace both disks. So, I'll get these off into the mail tomorrow and she'll send me the replacements. I have a tendency to encounter resistance when it comes to a lot of "customer service" issues, and I must say there was NONE of that when speaking with Lisa. She was VERY pleasant and very customer "happiness" oriented. One of my big concerns with this thread was that someone might unnecessarily get a bad impression of Eastwind, so I just want to make sure everyone knows this is turning out to be a very POSITIVE experience so far with them! When the new disks arrive, I'll be trying to mirror the break-in methods reported by @jadedvision ... I'm so glad they're replacing them for you! I know Vince would have been really upset if they hadn't because he loves those Eastwind discs. I'm glad too. I really wanted to make sure everyone involved knew that Eastwind has really been very "concerned" about this and so far have been very customer oriented about resolving this - as long as it wasn't me that was causing the problem - and I don't blame them for that at all. I was going to see if he had a couple minutes tomorrow evening for a call. I wanted to chat with him about all this anyway. |
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Post by jasoninsd on May 3, 2021 20:09:12 GMT -5
Avoid edges. I specifically rounded the girdle, and picked shapes with no sharp points to be comfortable exerting a good amount of pressure without catching an edge anywhere. I thought a higher dome on the agate could have helped in that regard. Well crap, I'm glad I asked! I will make sure I create a high dome on those cabs and will definitely use those. |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on May 3, 2021 20:46:45 GMT -5
I'm so glad they're replacing them for you! I know Vince would have been really upset if they hadn't because he loves those Eastwind discs. I'm glad too. I really wanted to make sure everyone involved knew that Eastwind has really been very "concerned" about this and so far have been very customer oriented about resolving this - as long as it wasn't me that was causing the problem - and I don't blame them for that at all. I was going to see if he had a couple minutes tomorrow evening for a call. I wanted to chat with him about all this anyway. As long as it's before season finale of The Curse of Oak Island comes on, he'll be available.  |
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Post by jasoninsd on May 3, 2021 20:52:05 GMT -5
I'm glad too. I really wanted to make sure everyone involved knew that Eastwind has really been very "concerned" about this and so far have been very customer oriented about resolving this - as long as it wasn't me that was causing the problem - and I don't blame them for that at all. I was going to see if he had a couple minutes tomorrow evening for a call. I wanted to chat with him about all this anyway. As long as it's before season finale of The Curse of Oak Island comes on, he'll be available. OH MY GOD! We'll be watching the same thing! My wife is addicted...and I guess so am I to a point. We haven't missed an episode yet! |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on May 3, 2021 21:00:41 GMT -5
As long as it's before season finale of The Curse of Oak Island comes on, he'll be available. OH MY GOD! We'll be watching the same thing! My wife is addicted...and I guess so am I to a point. We haven't missed an episode yet! I've watched it since it started. Don't forget there's a new Drilling Down right before the finale. And then the new season of Skinwalker Ranch starts!  |
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Post by jasoninsd on May 3, 2021 21:06:37 GMT -5
OH MY GOD! We'll be watching the same thing! My wife is addicted...and I guess so am I to a point. We haven't missed an episode yet! I've watched it since it started. Don't forget there's a new Drilling Down right before the finale. And then the new season of Skinwalker Ranch starts! The similarities are getting really uncanny! LOL Same here...she hasn't missed any of the Skinwalker show either. I've missed some of that one though. I loved the Drilling Down last week where they showed the TV crews behind the scenes. She won't admit it, but I know Rick is my wife's "celebrity crush". LOL. I can't blame her though...he's kind of like Sam Elliott...a man's man and a woman's man all rolled into one. LOL |
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on May 3, 2021 22:18:23 GMT -5
@jadedvision - Thanks for demonstrating those belts for all of us here. I've thought many times about trying them. They're pricey - but if they last as long as the laps it would be well worth the investment.
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Post by jasoninsd on May 19, 2021 21:22:18 GMT -5
I've been meaning to give an update on this issue and was reminded by Vince I needed to get that done. LOL So, I did get the replacement disks (8000 and 14,000) last week. I broke them in with the two dressing sticks I have. I started with the 220 and then the 400. I used a very light touch using the dressing sticks and let the water just pour over the disks. I cleaned them in between the two dressing sticks to try and eliminate any loosened diamonds. I then ran a domed prairie agate over the disks to further break them in. I was using them through the later part of last week. I was having very good results with both at first. Then I started getting scratches with the 14k disk. The 8000 is still producing great results. So, I've got some work still to do on the 14k disk to find what's producing the scratches. Again, these are "new" and "deep" scratches where I have to go back to the 500 stage to get them out. One of the things I'm going different is making sure the water is covering the entire surface of the disk. I run my finger over the surface of the spinning disk, moving the water from the center to the outer edge. I think when I was doing this before, there were "dry" spots on the disk which contributed to the scratches... Again, I'm totally happy with how Eastwind has handled all of this issue. |
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So, I spent yesterday afternoon doing what I could with these disks. I dressed them again, with a 400 grit dressing stick this time - but then spent quite some time running the edge of a prairie agate I have dopped slowly over the surface while the disk was running - slow and fast. These prairie agates are some of the hardest material I have on hand (they have to be darn close to an 8 on the Mohs scale). And of course to my chagrin, I'm still seeing scratches.
