karldubya
starting to shine!
Member since March 2021
Posts: 32
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Post by karldubya on May 7, 2021 12:51:56 GMT -5
I don't tumble, but just thought I'd throw this out there. Our own Jugglerguy is in Michigan and he has a YouTube channel Michigan Rocks that may help you out some. He makes some awesome videos and may help you with some of the rocks you're finding. I've watched his video in disbelief that i couldn't get the same - but he seems to know what type of rocks he's putting in. From the 30 minute long instructional video he was trying with a lot of the same type of rocks. In the end I hope I can get everything to take some sort of polish, but I'm going to try to separate my hard and soft rocks for now.
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karldubya
starting to shine!
Member since March 2021
Posts: 32
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Post by karldubya on May 7, 2021 12:55:03 GMT -5
From that batch, we removed everything that didn’t look like it was showing a hint of a shine and through the rest back in for another try. When we only put the rocks that looked like they had potential for a high polish, they turned out amazing! Did you start over from scratch? or just jump back a stage or two?
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Brian
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since July 2020
Posts: 1,506
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Post by Brian on May 7, 2021 13:01:37 GMT -5
From that batch, we removed everything that didn’t look like it was showing a hint of a shine and through the rest back in for another try. When we only put the rocks that looked like they had potential for a high polish, they turned out amazing! Did you start over from scratch? or just jump back a stage or two? The ones that looked promising were still in pretty decent shape (no deep scratches or rough spots), so we just ran them again through 500 grit AlOx and polish.
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Post by paulshiroma on May 7, 2021 13:16:02 GMT -5
I don't tumble, but just thought I'd throw this out there. Our own Jugglerguy is in Michigan and he has a YouTube channel Michigan Rocks that may help you out some. He makes some awesome videos and may help you with some of the rocks you're finding. I've watched his video in disbelief that i couldn't get the same - but he seems to know what type of rocks he's putting in. From the 30 minute long instructional video he was trying with a lot of the same type of rocks. In the end I hope I can get everything to take some sort of polish, but I'm going to try to separate my hard and soft rocks for now. Agreed - This is probably the first best thing to do - separate similar moh's ratings, etc.
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karldubya
starting to shine!
Member since March 2021
Posts: 32
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Post by karldubya on May 7, 2021 13:59:27 GMT -5
Wait so let me understand really quick - roll the hard stones with the hard stones and he soft stones with the soft stones? or are you saying give up on one or the other because they'll never polish? Also Hard Stones are easier to get a good polish on? I'm going to use a knife and do the quick test. I see a set of Mohs tools on amazon for $100 but i'm not sure i'm quiet that committed yet Do I just drag the blade on it? or apply pressure?
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,095
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Post by stefan on May 7, 2021 16:52:19 GMT -5
Apply a bit of pressure. If the knife truly scratches (not just leaves a shiny mark) then it's soft. If the rock can scratch (truly scratch not just leave a dusty streak) it's a harder rock and should tumble well.
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Post by paulshiroma on May 7, 2021 17:25:45 GMT -5
Wait so let me understand really quick - roll the hard stones with the hard stones and he soft stones with the soft stones? or are you saying give up on one or the other because they'll never polish? Also Hard Stones are easier to get a good polish on? I'm going to use a knife and do the quick test. I see a set of Mohs tools on amazon for $100 but i'm not sure i'm quiet that committed yet Do I just drag the blade on it? or apply pressure? Go like to like ... what you said first Hard stones with hard stones. I think what we've all run into is the difficulty of tumbling stones of different hardness together. In my limited experience, "harder" stones come out with a better polish. Softer stones can get a great polish too.
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karldubya
starting to shine!
Member since March 2021
Posts: 32
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Post by karldubya on May 8, 2021 8:30:25 GMT -5
Softer stones can get a great polish too. My son is obsessed with obsidian (mostly because of Minecraft) I understand it’s softer. I wanted to order some to tumble but concerned I won’t get it right. I suppose if it’s all the same type of stone and I can find a recipe here, I might be okay.
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Benathema
has rocks in the head
God chased me down and made sure I knew He was real June 20, 2022. I've been on a Divine Mission.
Member since November 2019
Posts: 703
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Post by Benathema on May 8, 2021 14:50:03 GMT -5
Hard and tough stones take a good polish, which is why a lot of folks recommend agates and jaspers to beginners.
Imagine what's happening on the microscopic level: your coarse grit is removing lots of material, shaping the stone. From there you can consider the rest of the steps finishing steps, where the finer grits are removing scratches from the previous grit stage. You progress through the grits trying to create a microscopic surface that reflects light. In this context it can be easier to understand why softer stones don't work as well: the surface of the stone is being worn away at a faster rate that's not conducive to polishing - the surface is being "destroyed" rather that being polished, and at best takes a dull sheen.
Now, you can polish softer stones, but it requires advanced techniques and possibly additional materials, such as corncob, walnut, or different polishing compounds. So gaining experience on getting a good shine on hard stones first helps with understanding how to approach the softer stones later. Not saying don't do the obsidian, but maybe hold off for a bit because the chance for dissatisfaction is high right out the gate.
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Post by rmf on May 8, 2021 15:13:15 GMT -5
@karidubya Ok I'll add my $0.02. The fact that you have a semi shine on some says you are on the right track with those stones. The ones that look like glass or are etched remove to two different piles. Glass you can do later after you learn to tumble. Anything etched is probably too soft to tumble. Now the semi shiny ones: From the images I do not see any small stuff or at least not much. In the first image the green rock shows frosting around the corners. This rock could be fluorite (too soft for you to try now) or possibly aventurine. If it is aventurine then it shows clear indications that you do not have enough cushioning in you tumbler barrel. You need to keep the barrel about 75-80% full with 30% of that volume dedicated to pieces 1/2" (12mm) or less. This will cushion the stones. Some on here uses ceramics for this purpose. I just use cheap pea gravel or smalls from previous tumbles. Go back to 220 grit for a week, then 600 for a week then polish. Other suggestion buy or find a quartz crystal or a piece of agate. Scratch everything you tumble until you know your rocks. If the quartz or agate scratches it set it aside for a later batch and start with the harder stuff. Agate tumbles easier than granite and unakite.
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Post by Jugglerguy on May 8, 2021 15:33:20 GMT -5
Hi karldubya, I'm Rob from the Michigan Rock YouTube channel. I think you're getting a lot of good suggestions here. I have tumbled a lot of Michigan beach rocks with generally great results. The thing is, I do most everything starting in a rotary tumbler for the first stage and then finish them in a Lot-O vibratory tumbler. I think the Lot-O is easier to use than rotary tumblers. When using rotary tumblers for all stages, I prefer ceramics over plastic. I do mixed batches all the time with a large variety of beach rocks, but I think the Lot-O might be more forgiving of mixed rocks.
I do have occasional rocks that don't polish because they're too soft. I also don't bring home granite or gneiss anymore because of undercutting, where softer minerals wear away faster than harder minerals. Granite was my very first batch thought, and the non-black parts took a pretty good shine. Unakite is a great rock for tumbling, but try to get the stuff that doesn't look like granite. The piece in your picture looks like it has some good parts and some bad parts. The black part in the specked area is the part that will give you problems.
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Post by paulshiroma on May 9, 2021 0:00:26 GMT -5
Softer stones can get a great polish too. My son is obsessed with obsidian (mostly because of Minecraft) I understand it’s softer. I wanted to order some to tumble but concerned I won’t get it right. I suppose if it’s all the same type of stone and I can find a recipe here, I might be okay. There's a couple of great recipe's on the forum that I've used with excellent results. As you mentioned, though, it can be a challenge. If I find the thread with the recipe I used, I'll pass it along. It's been a long time since I did the obsidian.
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helsha
off to a rocking start
Member since January 2021
Posts: 7
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Post by helsha on May 22, 2021 9:48:02 GMT -5
Okay, this hobby is going to drive me crazy. I just got my 6th final product. I’ve done this six times. I won’t count the first two with garbage natgeo polish. Are my expectations to high? I’m looking for that mirror or glass quality finish. I’ve kept a log book: the last two batches I’ve done have been completely different with the same results. For starts phase 1 for any stone I don’t track I have 3 tumblers so one is always spinning phase one and I move them when they are ready. It could be 1 week or 4 weeks. Batch #1 ran P2 - 3 weeks, P3 - 2 weeks and Phase 4 - 2 weeks. Batch #2 ran P2 - 2 weeks, P3 - 1 week and Phase 4 - 1 week. So, if the tumbler is different, and the grit is different, and the rocks are different, and the times are different, but you're getting the same result? You're doing something foundationally wrong in the beginning. I'm relatively new to all this, so grain of salt with this advice, but it looks to me like from the finish on the rocks, that the problem is happening in P1/P2. Your surfaces simply aren't smooth enough to get a good polish at the end. You said you're using the Chicago Electric tumbler. Are you using the little 3# rotary one? My guess here is that you're not loading the tumbler enough. These are very small batches of rocks, even for a CE 3#. If you don't put enough rocks in the drum, they can't grind against each other enough and can't smooth the surface effectively. You mentioned somewhere you're using plastic pellets, but since you're not tumbling delicate stones, ceramic pellets may be better since you're not using a bunch of pebbles to fill in between your stones. Without small media in the beginning you can't fill the gaps between stones to get effective grinding action. Another option is you're not using enough, or using too much, water and preventing proper tumbling. Or you're possibly not using enough grit. The CE 3# says in manual to use 4 TABLEspoons (not Teaspoons) of grit in P1/P2. In vibe tumblers it's 4 Teaspoons. So if you were reading the wrong recipe, that might be your issue. Also you mention reusing grit. Don't get fancy, just follow the manual until you get it right. You shouldn't get results this poor when leaving in coarse for a month. I've polished stones very similar to your mix with glassy results at the end, so I don't think the problem is the stones, or the fact that you're tumbling them together. Hopefully some of that is useful!
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saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
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Post by saxplayer on May 22, 2021 10:21:28 GMT -5
Any update?
I feel strongly you should use all Mohs 7 jaspers or agates and learn how to polish before doing any self collected or softer rocks.
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karldubya
starting to shine!
Member since March 2021
Posts: 32
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Post by karldubya on May 23, 2021 11:15:15 GMT -5
Any update? I feel strongly you should use all Mohs 7 jaspers or agates and learn how to polish before doing any self collected or softer rocks. I took all my rocks that got a semi shine and ran them back through starting at phase 3. They just finished yesterday, and... same results. 😭. I’m about to start over. All new grits, etc. start with a known batch of rocks from the rock shed. If I can’t do it that way I probably never will.
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helsha
off to a rocking start
Member since January 2021
Posts: 7
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Post by helsha on May 23, 2021 12:16:05 GMT -5
I took all my rocks that got a semi shine and ran them back through starting at phase 3. They just finished yesterday, and... same results. 😭. I’m about to start over. All new grits, etc. start with a known batch of rocks from the rock shed. If I can’t do it that way I probably never will. Yea, so if that's the case, your problem is before P3.
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saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
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Post by saxplayer on May 23, 2021 14:56:08 GMT -5
Any update? I feel strongly you should use all Mohs 7 jaspers or agates and learn how to polish before doing any self collected or softer rocks. I took all my rocks that got a semi shine and ran them back through starting at phase 3. They just finished yesterday, and... same results. 😭. I’m about to start over. All new grits, etc. start with a known batch of rocks from the rock shed. If I can’t do it that way I probably never will. You can, and will - but def take the advice here Use a single type of rock, maybe consider posting here what you are putting into stage one first and we can help verify. This is the way
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rrod
having dreams about rocks
Member since December 2020
Posts: 72
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Post by rrod on May 23, 2021 18:28:22 GMT -5
Didn't see this asked so sorry if it has been: What size tumbler are you using? 3lb? If so, you might be overfilling or you could have too many (relatively) big rocks. Can we see a pic of your filled barrel?
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