jasperfanatic
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2019
Posts: 463
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Post by jasperfanatic on May 22, 2021 15:22:39 GMT -5
Last November I added a 24" slab saw to my addiction, having only a 14" prior. I'm glad I got the bigger one, but for a number of reasons I kind of wish I had a middle step in size now...gonna have to find some more money somewhere. Anyhow, the 14" has the top/bottom vise and that's all I've known. I've learned over time what I need to do to position rocks to get the cut I want, and for tricky positioning the maximum rock size for the 14" keeps it manageable. All is right in the 14" world... The 24" saw, however, has presented a challenge I hadn't factored in, or my "I want a bigger toy" brain just decided not to consider possible 'cons'. It has the big book end vise, which in itself isn't so bad, but there is little 'bottom' to rest a rock on, the floor/base in the middle is more narrow than the jaws with like 2-3" on either side having no bottom. If I'm cutting stuff that truly needs a 24" it's pretty impossible to finesse (or even hold) a rock around to get it mounted at the angle you want, they're too big and heavy. For the same reasons, it can also be hard to get enough rock to extend out into the 'cut zone', sometimes offering up the opportunity for only 1-2 cuts. I've got some large, killer stuff waiting to go for a ride, but I'm not going to send them through until I can figure this out...it's material that really requires attention and planning to get the best out of it, and it was too much $$$ to just go YOLO. What are you veteran/experts using in larger saws like this? Looking for any accessory suggestions, tips, etc. I can get. Also, are any of you gluing wood to large, faced chunks? If so, what are you using? With the 14" I'll cut a 2x4 block to fit the face of whatever rock I want to cut and then glue it on with sodium silicate, if I want to continue cutting on that plane or close to it. Otherwise I'd just reposition the rock without. I feel like that might not work well with a large, faced rock as it would be too heavy and would need at least a 2x6 or few 2x4 blocks...or maybe it just doesn't work well in any case? Everything about the larger saw is more expensive and I definitely don't want to be killing blades at this level. I was so accustomed to just muscling everything around in the 14" that I didn't stop to think what that would be like with boulders.  |
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Post by catmandewe on May 22, 2021 15:42:15 GMT -5
Most times I just use the 24 to make stuff small enough to go into the 16-18" saws, but if I want lots of big slabs then I glue big chunks to a 2x6 or 2x8 using carpenters wood glue. Let it set for a few days as the glue in the center takes a bit to cure and if it isnt fully cured it can cut loose. I havent had good luck with waterglass on larger stones so I have stopped using it all together. The carpenters wood glue will not soak off so you have to cut it off the block or leave the last little bit.
I use a wood block to hold the stone up when I am tightening up the vise, lets loose of one of your hands that is normally holding the edge of the stone up.
Good cutting!
Tony
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Post by HankRocks on May 22, 2021 16:47:18 GMT -5
Most times I just use the 24 to make stuff small enough to go into the 16-18" saws, but if I want lots of big slabs then I glue big chunks to a 2x6 or 2x8 using carpenters wood glue. Let it set for a few days as the glue in the center takes a bit to cure and if it isnt fully cured it can cut loose. I havent had good luck with waterglass on larger stones so I have stopped using it all together. The carpenters wood glue will not soak off so you have to cut it off the block or leave the last little bit. I use a wood block to hold the stone up when I am tightening up the vise, lets loose of one of your hands that is normally holding the edge of the stone up. Good cutting! Tony I have a 24 inch saw with the bookend vise, clamping odd shaped rocks is a real challenge. I use different shaped wooden wedges to give the vise something to bite, I believe on one rock I had 4 different wedges in place. Depending on the depth of the rock to be cut I add blocks of wood on the backside of the vise away from the rock, just smaller than the width of the rock to keep the vise from pulling away from the rock on the frontside. Had not thought of using a block to hold the rock inplace while clamping, good idea!! I do glue rocks with cut faces to wood, carpenters glue, allowed to dry a decent amount of time depending on size of the rock face, 7 to 14 days. 2X4"'s, 4X4"'s, 4X6"'s are all in the wood pile. When finished, I soak off the last piece in water. That takes a while. The glue drying, cutting, soaking off can take up to a month or more. For me it's not a big deal as I have lots of rock to cut so no one is in a hurry. Cut faces on rocks I acquire is a bonus as it moves the rock from the wedge fun over to the glue process. Sometimes you need to cut small pieces off of large rocks to get it to set in the vise better. |
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stefan
Cave Dweller 
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,113
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Post by stefan on May 23, 2021 6:37:59 GMT -5
I wish I could offer up some pearls of wisdom, but I don't have any experience with big saws. I did want to thank you for the unintentional encouragement I got with my 14" saw purchase. I was really beginning to second guess my decision, but your positive results with the 14" has eased my mind! I hope you can figure out the big saw!
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on May 23, 2021 10:09:05 GMT -5
We have a CRS Gripper too - and it is invaluable for oddly shaped rocks. There have only been a couple of pieces I couldn't "grip" with it so far.
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Post by broseph82 on May 25, 2021 12:08:39 GMT -5
Most times I just use the 24 to make stuff small enough to go into the 16-18" saws, but if I want lots of big slabs then I glue big chunks to a 2x6 or 2x8 using carpenters wood glue. Let it set for a few days as the glue in the center takes a bit to cure and if it isnt fully cured it can cut loose. I havent had good luck with waterglass on larger stones so I have stopped using it all together. The carpenters wood glue will not soak off so you have to cut it off the block or leave the last little bit. I use a wood block to hold the stone up when I am tightening up the vise, lets loose of one of your hands that is normally holding the edge of the stone up. Good cutting! Tony I’d like to respectfully disagree with your last statement about the wood glue not soaking off. It may take a week or two (sometimes), but I’ve never had a rock piece not come off the wood when I used wood glue. |
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Post by catmandewe on May 25, 2021 13:51:27 GMT -5
I dont use waterglass anymore because I have had 3 let loose in mid cut. After I lost 3 blades I switched to Elmers glue, lost one blade to Elmers glue and switched to Carpenters glue, havent lost a blade to carpenters wood glue yet.
I can get Elmers glue to soak off but the carpenters wood glue I use wont come loose, I have soaked some for a few months and they never came off, just got moldy. I dont even soak them anymore, just cut them right up to the wood and done.
I have played around with super glue a little when I am in a hurry, it seems to work ok but I am still playing with it. (Plus I dont get in a hurry much.)
Tony
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Post by parfive on May 25, 2021 14:17:45 GMT -5
(Plus I dont get in a hurry much.) : )  |
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Post by Peruano on May 25, 2021 15:17:10 GMT -5
There is a middle ground for getting stones off of carpenter's glue mounts. 1. I don't use waterproof glue just plain carpenter's wood glue; 2. I don't try to soak it off of the whole stub, but rather just by cutting as closely as possible to the stone with a wood saw (actually a hand hack saw) so that I have a thin 1/8 to 1/2" slice of wood attached to the last piece of stone. Water will soak through that thin section rather quickly and the wood will release within 24 hrs and the glue will soften sufficiently to be brushed off or scraped with a dull knife. 30 - 45 seconds of hand sawing with a cheap hack saw is quicker and less problematic than another run through the slab saw of 10 - 15 minutes. Wood glue will release unexpectedly if no cured at normal room temperatures. I.E. when i glue up things in the winter, shop temps of 40 or 50 degrees are not enough to cure the glue setup securely and they will be more likely to pop off.
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jasperfanatic
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2019
Posts: 463
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Post by jasperfanatic on May 25, 2021 15:55:14 GMT -5
The 2”-3” extending out on either side of the vise base would drive me crazy. That might be addressed with a modification or replacement, selling and replacing the saw could also be the way to go. I have an older hp 24” and the overhang is less than 1”. I have a large crs gripper that I use all the time for a number of different reasons, it’s a complete game changer and will give you a lot of flexibility. I have no experience cutting anything larger than 15 lbs in the gripper, but I wouldn’t count on it for attacking boulders. LOL...my keyboard estimation was a bit off  It's about an inch on either side, I think my brain just exaggerated it because wrestling the large rocks has been a challenge and it wanted to find something to blame it on. |
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Post by broseph82 on May 25, 2021 21:00:34 GMT -5
I dont use waterglass anymore because I have had 3 let loose in mid cut. After I lost 3 blades I switched to Elmers glue, lost one blade to Elmers glue and switched to Carpenters glue, havent lost a blade to carpenters wood glue yet. I can get Elmers glue to soak off but the carpenters wood glue I use wont come loose, I have soaked some for a few months and they never came off, just got moldy. I dont even soak them anymore, just cut them right up to the wood and done. I have played around with super glue a little when I am in a hurry, it seems to work ok but I am still playing with it. (Plus I dont get in a hurry much.) Tony Ah carpenters glue vs elmers. I take back my comment as I’ve never used carpenters. Guess I overlooked that. Sorry |
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Post by catmandewe on May 25, 2021 22:15:33 GMT -5
No worries
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Post by victor1941 on May 27, 2021 17:58:56 GMT -5
Jasperfantastc, I will add one more method I have used on several occasions. I have used Locktite Pl Adhesive and anchored/adhered large rock pieces to wood blocks-4x4, 4x6 or combos as a holder that fits in the vise. This rock must also clear the blade flange and any other projections. If the gap is large between rock and wood block I build the adhesive layers up where each each layer hardens(don't over fill where the center stays gooey) and then cut. After several days the base rock can be removed by immersing in soapy water. It can be further worked because it has a flat side for the other methods. If the blade does not cut completely through I then pop the rock apart with a hammer if the uncut section is small or reposition for a second cut.
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It's about an inch on either side, I think my brain just exaggerated it because wrestling the large rocks has been a challenge and it wanted to find something to blame it on.
