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Post by jasoninsd on Jul 30, 2021 18:02:57 GMT -5
I have done Obsidian on that same machine with the disks that come with it and have done a darn good job. That said, I've also had to go back and start at the beginning multiple times. Keeping those finer grits separate are necessary. I've also learned to wrap them, and not stack them on each other. Otherwise, any little contamination will show up Also keep your polishing pads separate and wrapped. Also feel your pads, you may have created a "gouge" with something and not know it My suggestion keep separate disks for obsidian, slag, Goldstone etc. Hope that is some help Thanks for chiming in on this Ali. I don't think there's many of us on here who have or use the slant cabber...so I always like to hear what you have to say.  (Granted it didn't make me feel better that you had success! LOL) I keep the 8000 and 14,000 clear across the room and there both about 3 feet apart from each other. There's no risk of cross-contamination...at least through the air to where they're at. If I could afford the separate disks right now, I'm thinking I'd just put the money towards a regular cabbing machine! LOL I think part of the problem is I'm getting "chatter" on several of the disks...the 500 being one of them. It isn't true, so there's too much vibration while trying to run the cab over the surface...causing bouncing to a point. Don't beat yourself up too much. It really could be a problem with the disks. I store mine in separate zip lock bags. They never come close to each other. I'm super paranoid about it. Granted, I don't use the flat lap, but I have a lot of spin-on wheels to care for. I had a contaminated one once that drove me crazy, so I'm real careful now.
I imagine if the disks were at all warped you would be getting this problem, too.
Thanks Tela, Like I just said to Ali, I am getting "chatter" on several of the disks. It's been driving me crazy ever since I got the machine. Some are good, but others are definitely not "true"! I totally freaking agree! LOL Just an observation from long ago. I haven't cut much obsidian in recent years but I recall from the "olden days" before the diamond "revolution," I didn't have problems when I used silicon carbide sandpaper dry. Yes, I know...but I'm still kicking. As I recall the trick was allowing the paper to "load" with sanded material thus slowly reducing its cutting ability resulting in a finer and finer surface without scratches. I don't recommend dry sanding on a regular basis without masks and careful ventilation, but now and then it might be justified to solve problems like yours. If you do it touch the stone to your cheek often to check for overheating. Too much heat will break the stone - very dangerous with volcanic glass. Thanks for chiming in on this. I think this makes total sense. I have wet/dry silicon carbide (I think) sandpaper, so if worse comes to worse, I could always try to finish these by hand!  damn! it just dawned on me Obsidian doesn't have grains! well back to the turning wheel  Thanks for bringing this up Ed! You're one step ahead of me though...I couldn't have told you whether Obsidian was grained or not! LOL |
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Post by jasoninsd on Jul 30, 2021 18:04:44 GMT -5
Did you get the pads that go underneath? Yep. They've all got the sponge pads. I'm wondering how much the "chattering" is affecting things. Do any of your disks have a chatter to them...which causes the cab to essentially bounce? |
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Post by MsAli on Jul 30, 2021 18:07:52 GMT -5
No chatter but one of then got a huge groove in it. Are you getting the screw down tight?
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Post by stephan on Jul 30, 2021 18:13:32 GMT -5
Obsidian can be difficult. I have always heard and done like you said- light touch on the Novas, but that's with new wheels. I have a set of old wheels on a separate spindle for just obsidian, jade, etc. Anything that needs a light touch. But, being worn, I can use more pressure which really seems to work. Not saying this is your issue- just throwing it out there. Those gouges sure look deeper than 8 or 14k. Nasty looking for sure. Yep, worn wheels an letting the cab get hot is the secret sauce for obsidian and jade. Do a few 100 crazy lace cabs, or Montana…, and you’ll be in good shape. Those colors are amazing! |
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Post by jasoninsd on Jul 30, 2021 18:20:17 GMT -5
No chatter but one of then got a huge groove in it. Are you getting the screw down tight? Yes. They are SUPER tight! (My wife doesn't let me put the lids on the jars when we're done eating. She can't get them off afterward. I have a tendency to crank everything that can be tightened with everything I've got! LOL) So, I've got to figure out what's making these chatter...maybe that's part of the problem. The 500 is super "bouncy". Obsidian can be difficult. I have always heard and done like you said- light touch on the Novas, but that's with new wheels. I have a set of old wheels on a separate spindle for just obsidian, jade, etc. Anything that needs a light touch. But, being worn, I can use more pressure which really seems to work. Not saying this is your issue- just throwing it out there. Those gouges sure look deeper than 8 or 14k. Nasty looking for sure. Yep, worn wheels an letting the cab get hot is the secret sauce for obsidian and jade. Do a few 100 crazy lace cabs, or Montana…, and you’ll be in good shape. Those colors are amazing! I thought I remembered to let the Obsidian get hot...but not too hot it would crack anything. Right?!? I was amazed at the colors...which is why I really want to get this whole polish thing figured out! LOL |
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Post by mohs on Jul 30, 2021 19:15:50 GMT -5
I can just read your intensity in figuring this out jase
and I don't blame ya
there is a solution
even if is some weird quantum mechanical process
its almost like the scratches aren't there
until you observe
wave/particle collapse theory
cogitating on the problem
Looking at your example is really fascinating
that scrtch pattern is tricked ha
anyway If I had the bucks
i'd buy a new Genie
come to S.D.
and experiment with ya
lottery number picks later
so we'll see
finger crossed
anyway pal keep up the good grind!
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Post by jasoninsd on Jul 30, 2021 19:27:11 GMT -5
I can just read your intensity in figuring this out jase and I don't blame ya there is a solution even if is some weird quantum mechanical process its almost like the scratches aren't there until you observe wave/particle collapse theory cogitating on the problem Looking at your example is really fascinating that scrtch pattern is tricked ha anyway If I had the bucks i'd buy a new Genie come to S.D. and experiment with ya lottery number picks later so we'll see finger crossed anyway pal keep up the good grind! Thanks Ed! I think you and I might have the same retirement plan! LOL - I've had all the numbers for the Lotto correct...just not on the same ticket and not at the right times! LOL I was thinking earlier today how I wished there was someone with experience that was close so I could have them come over and look at what I'm doing and point out where the heck the problem is coming from...not that I'm dismissing any or all of the help I'm getting on the forum! There's just something about "hands on" that really makes a difference. I'm not sure if it's going to be easier for me to get this all figured out, or gain a full understanding of quantum mechanics! LOL |
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Post by MsAli on Jul 30, 2021 19:31:23 GMT -5
Dumb question but are you using the the washer as well with it? Are they not balanced because they are not sitting right ?
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jasperfanatic
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2019
Posts: 463
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Post by jasperfanatic on Jul 30, 2021 19:31:48 GMT -5
I will 100% agree that I am failing with regards to getting the scratches out along the way. I think I am, but then I'll find them as I go further through the grit process. There's proof of that in picture 2. And today is a day filled with frustration because I am just not having any success with regards to getting them all. That's problem number one. I can't seem to solve this problem with Obsidian. I seem to be able to with Teepee Canyon Agates - which is obviously a harder material. Problem number two is the gouging. I know what you're saying with regards to the missed scratches. But it's really not the case with what I showed in picture #4. Right in the middle of that picture, you can see where there was a "chunk" taken out when it was gouged. So if that's the case, it has to be a contamination issue from somewhere/somehow...but I can't figure out how that's even possible... I've spent all day on these two cabs, trying to get them right...and I'm failing miserably. I wouldn't mind if I could figure out where along the way I'm failing. I've paid very close attention to everything that's been told to me (AND I AM VERY GRATEFUL) and I think that I'm following everything to a "T" as to what I'm being advised to do...but I'm not getting the results I should be. I guarantee it's something I'm doing wrong...but I don't know where exactly I'm screwing things up. There's a phrase...(which I'm probably not supposed to say anymore)...I learned when it came to pool playing and pool cues. "It's the Indian, not the arrow that makes the difference." - Meaning I'd love to blame the equipment in some way, but my money's being bet that it's me...and all me somehow. Wish there was a way I could help. It's definitely not 'easy mode' material. It gets even more interesting when you get obsessed with obsidian and then go back to some jaspers/agates after a while, you get spoiled by how much quicker the soft stuff works and then feel like you forgot how to work the harder stuff You've ramped up super quick across the board so I know you'll get this mastered in no time. |
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Post by jasoninsd on Jul 30, 2021 19:48:12 GMT -5
Dumb question but are you using the the washer as well with it? Are they not balanced because they are not sitting right ? Not a dumb question...I have two washers. Most of the disks require the use of both washers. I've tried to use both one washer and then two washers on the ones that chatter. It doesn't make a difference. When I use the two washers, I can tighten the screw a little tighter because it doesn't bottom out with both washers on... I will 100% agree that I am failing with regards to getting the scratches out along the way. I think I am, but then I'll find them as I go further through the grit process. There's proof of that in picture 2. And today is a day filled with frustration because I am just not having any success with regards to getting them all. That's problem number one. I can't seem to solve this problem with Obsidian. I seem to be able to with Teepee Canyon Agates - which is obviously a harder material. Problem number two is the gouging. I know what you're saying with regards to the missed scratches. But it's really not the case with what I showed in picture #4. Right in the middle of that picture, you can see where there was a "chunk" taken out when it was gouged. So if that's the case, it has to be a contamination issue from somewhere/somehow...but I can't figure out how that's even possible... I've spent all day on these two cabs, trying to get them right...and I'm failing miserably. I wouldn't mind if I could figure out where along the way I'm failing. I've paid very close attention to everything that's been told to me (AND I AM VERY GRATEFUL) and I think that I'm following everything to a "T" as to what I'm being advised to do...but I'm not getting the results I should be. I guarantee it's something I'm doing wrong...but I don't know where exactly I'm screwing things up. There's a phrase...(which I'm probably not supposed to say anymore)...I learned when it came to pool playing and pool cues. "It's the Indian, not the arrow that makes the difference." - Meaning I'd love to blame the equipment in some way, but my money's being bet that it's me...and all me somehow. Wish there was a way I could help. It's definitely not 'easy mode' material. It gets even more interesting when you get obsessed with obsidian and then go back to some jaspers/agates after a while, you get spoiled by how much quicker the soft stuff works and then feel like you forgot how to work the harder stuff You've ramped up super quick across the board so I know you'll get this mastered in no time. Thank you for that! I really feel like I'm whining a bit today...not quite throwing a temper tantrum, mind you...but still! LOL I agree...I have progressed pretty quickly. I have a tendency for being able to figure things out...so it's kind of frustrating for me when I can't get something figured out...especially when I think it's something I should be able to solve... LOL |
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Post by Rockoonz on Jul 30, 2021 20:35:51 GMT -5
Yes, the perplexing diamond with jade or obsidian thing, also occasionally a rutile and undercutting thing.
I still have expandos and SiC belts for that reason. The crystal structure of diamond is a sharp, grabby abrasive. The finer the grit, the sharper and grabbier (is that a word?) the diamond.
In jade it results in the orange peel surface in the higher end materials with less silica. Most obsidian has what I call micro pits, from the very tiny bubbles in the non crystalline glass. As you advance to the finest diamond grits the wheels grab the sharp edges of the pits and drag them acrodd the stone, the obsidian basically scratches itself. Mostly worn out diamond is less grabby.
SiC crystals start out as more of a block form, and become rounded out by use, not grabby at all. When you want to remove material to shape something sharp and grabby is good, when all you need to remove is scratches, not so much. When carving I use diamond all the way through, but in the final sanding and polishing I use the diamond paste on little nylon bristle brushes to avoid the grabbiness, just push and pull the paste around the stone to finish it.
All that said, obsidian is still difficult, scratches must be diligently removed at each step, and they sure like to hide.
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Post by jasoninsd on Jul 30, 2021 21:07:03 GMT -5
Yes, the perplexing diamond with jade or obsidian thing, also occasionally a rutile and undercutting thing. I still have expandos and SiC belts for that reason. The crystal structure of diamond is a sharp, grabby abrasive. The finer the grit, the sharper and grabbier (is that a word?) the diamond. In jade it results in the orange peel surface in the higher end materials with less silica. Most obsidian has what I call micro pits, from the very tiny bubbles in the non crystalline glass. As you advance to the finest diamond grits the wheels grab the sharp edges of the pits and drag them acrodd the stone, the obsidian basically scratches itself. Mostly worn out diamond is less grabby. SiC crystals start out as more of a block form, and become rounded out by use, not grabby at all. When you want to remove material to shape something sharp and grabby is good, when all you need to remove is scratches, not so much. When carving I use diamond all the way through, but in the final sanding and polishing I use the diamond paste on little nylon bristle brushes to avoid the grabbiness, just push and pull the paste around the stone to finish it. All that said, obsidian is still difficult, scratches must be diligently removed at each step, and they sure like to hide. Thanks for chiming in on this! I was just discussing the micro-pitting issue with someone in a PM! This thread probably makes me sound like I'm whining...if so, I do apologize for that. Since I am still relatively new to all this, I'm limited on the equipment I have. It would seem I have a tendency to think I can accomplish anything with that limited equipment (and experience). I'm learning that isn't always the case! Late this afternoon, I did take one of the cabs from the 3000 stage straight to the 14,000 diamond paste on the buffing pad. It buffed up super nice! And unfortunately (fortunately) showed the scratches I'd missed! So, I set them to the side and ate dinner. I'll attack them again later tonight, or tomorrow. Sometimes I've got to walk away are regroup! The Obsidian won the battle today, but the war is not over!!! LOL |
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Post by tntmom on Jul 30, 2021 21:20:41 GMT -5
There was a member here who was the Queen of obsidian- look through and see if you can find tntmom 's posts on obsid. She used all diamond on a flat lap. Thanks for the tag, great to see a lot of familiar names again!!! So my process has changed over the years but it is basically the same, just new and better machinery. The trick with obsidian is to use REALLY worn wheels. If your wheels or pads are not fully broken in then you will never get rid of the scratches. I use Nova. Maybe do some agates or jaspers or something until they are good and worn and that should also dislodge a contaminant if there is one. I stop at 3000 and then move to my lap with a natural felt pad from Covington. I sprinkle optical grade super cerium, also from Covington on the pad and wet it with a spray bottle. I just use my cab to work it in and smush it into the felt. I keep it damp but not saturated and polish for a good 5 or 10 minutes. If the cab gets too hot then I add more water. Clean with Dawn dish soap and water, look for foggy spots and then re-polish those areas. Meant to add, don't even bother with 8000 or 14000 when working Obsidian. You can cab every day for a year on those disks and they still wont be broken in enough to not scratch. They are a must for other materials but with Ob, just go to 3000 and switch to super cerium. You can't over polish it so just be patient and keep using the cerium until you have a liquid glass finish. I haven't uploaded a video here in years so not sure how to do it anymore. Hope this link works to a video on my Facebook page. www.facebook.com/kristine.gniot/videos/5756693151039350 |
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Post by jasoninsd on Jul 30, 2021 21:32:58 GMT -5
There was a member here who was the Queen of obsidian- look through and see if you can find tntmom 's posts on obsid. She used all diamond on a flat lap. Thanks for the tag, great to see a lot of familiar names again!!! So my process has changed over the years but it is basically the same, just new and better machinery. The trick with obsidian is to use REALLY worn wheels. If your wheels or pads are not fully broken in then you will never get rid of the scratches. I use Nova. Maybe do some agates or jaspers or something until they are good and worn and that should also dislodge a contaminant if there is one. I stop at 3000 and then move to my lap with a natural felt pad from Covington. I sprinkle optical grade super cerium, also from Covington on the pad and wet it with a spray bottle. I just use my cab to work it in and smush it into the felt. I keep it damp but not saturated and polish for a good 5 or 10 minutes. If the cab gets too hot then I add more water. Clean with Dawn dish soap and water, look for foggy spots and then re-polish those areas. Meant to add, don't even bother with 8000 or 14000 when working Obsidian. You can cab every day for a year on those disks and they still wont be broken in enough to not scratch. They are a must for other materials but with Ob, just go to 3000 and switch to super cerium. You can't over polish it so just be patient and keep using the cerium until you have a liquid glass finish. I haven't uploaded a video here in years so not sure how to do it anymore. Hope this link works to a video on my Facebook page. Kristine! You are amazing! I was getting very close to sending you a PM hoping you would get it...I don't do Facebook, but my wife does...and I was really thinking about having her send you a message...or I thought about contacting you through Etsy! (I wouldn't say it was "stalking"...just at the end of my rope! LOL) That being said...thank you so much for taking the time to chime in. I've spent a good portion of the afternoon/evening looking through your obsidian posts on here trying to find the "secret"! Your work with Obsidian is flat out among the best out there! All of my wheels are new enough that I can't say they're worn to the point that you're describing...especially since I just put on a brand new 3000 disk this morning! LOL I seriously can't thank you enough for taking the time to help out with this! (And happy belated birthday too...yep, I saw that thread too! LOL) Edited to add - I was able to view that video you posted...that's the shine I'm looking for! |
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Post by tntmom on Jul 30, 2021 21:43:07 GMT -5
Thanks for the tag, great to see a lot of familiar names again!!! So my process has changed over the years but it is basically the same, just new and better machinery. The trick with obsidian is to use REALLY worn wheels. If your wheels or pads are not fully broken in then you will never get rid of the scratches. I use Nova. Maybe do some agates or jaspers or something until they are good and worn and that should also dislodge a contaminant if there is one. I stop at 3000 and then move to my lap with a natural felt pad from Covington. I sprinkle optical grade super cerium, also from Covington on the pad and wet it with a spray bottle. I just use my cab to work it in and smush it into the felt. I keep it damp but not saturated and polish for a good 5 or 10 minutes. If the cab gets too hot then I add more water. Clean with Dawn dish soap and water, look for foggy spots and then re-polish those areas. Meant to add, don't even bother with 8000 or 14000 when working Obsidian. You can cab every day for a year on those disks and they still wont be broken in enough to not scratch. They are a must for other materials but with Ob, just go to 3000 and switch to super cerium. You can't over polish it so just be patient and keep using the cerium until you have a liquid glass finish. I haven't uploaded a video here in years so not sure how to do it anymore. Hope this link works to a video on my Facebook page. Kristine! You are amazing! I was getting very close to sending you a PM hoping you would get it...I don't do Facebook, but my wife does...and I was really thinking about having her send you a message...or I thought about contacting you through Etsy! (I wouldn't say it was "stalking"...just at the end of my rope! LOL) That being said...thank you so much for taking the time to chime in. I've spent a good portion of the afternoon/evening looking through your obsidian posts on here trying to find the "secret"! Your work with Obsidian is flat out among the best out there! All of my wheels are new enough that I can't say they're worn to the point that you're describing...especially since I just put on a brand new 3000 disk this morning! LOL I seriously can't thank you enough for taking the time to help out with this! (And happy belated birthday too...yep, I saw that thread too! LOL) Edited to add - I was able to view that video you posted...that's the shine I'm looking for! If you have a new 3000 then skip it! You can go straight from 1200 to super cerium on felt as well but it just takes longer to polish. And thank you for the happy birthday! It was my big 50 and my hubby flew in my old best friend/roommate who I haven't seen in 27 years. He hid her in a hotel and then surprised me!!!!! It was like we were 21 all over again. She was my maid of honour and I was hers. Best birthday ever. |
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Post by mohs on Jul 30, 2021 21:59:58 GMT -5
 the above posts are excellent advice even the ol'mohs is learning crazing on the slick stone so I don;t need to buy a new Genie actually that would be exactly the wrong idea I got a worn out Pixie just need to buy a ticket almost doable ha ha
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Post by jasoninsd on Jul 30, 2021 22:04:16 GMT -5
Kristine! You are amazing! I was getting very close to sending you a PM hoping you would get it...I don't do Facebook, but my wife does...and I was really thinking about having her send you a message...or I thought about contacting you through Etsy! (I wouldn't say it was "stalking"...just at the end of my rope! LOL) That being said...thank you so much for taking the time to chime in. I've spent a good portion of the afternoon/evening looking through your obsidian posts on here trying to find the "secret"! Your work with Obsidian is flat out among the best out there! All of my wheels are new enough that I can't say they're worn to the point that you're describing...especially since I just put on a brand new 3000 disk this morning! LOL I seriously can't thank you enough for taking the time to help out with this! (And happy belated birthday too...yep, I saw that thread too! LOL) Edited to add - I was able to view that video you posted...that's the shine I'm looking for! If you have a new 3000 then skip it! You can go straight from 1200 to super cerium on felt as well but it just takes longer to polish. And thank you for the happy birthday! It was my big 50 and my hubby flew in my old best friend/roommate who I haven't seen in 27 years. He hid her in a hotel and then surprised me!!!!! It was like we were 21 all over again. She was my maid of honour and I was hers. Best birthday ever. That is SO cool! Your husband is the type that makes the rest of us look bad...so I'm not showing my wife your post! LOL I'm a few months away from my 50th...but hope I don't have anyone jumping out of the closet at me! I'm going to struggle no matter what. All of my disks are about 8 months old...that's all the longer I've been doing this...but I'm a '"go-getter"! LOL Perhaps this is why I'm seeing the "scratches" at every step (500-3000). I didn't think I was imagining it...or missing them. With new disks, they would have been created at each step of the way. That's what I was trying to describe. The 1200 would remove the 500 scratches, but would be replaced with shallower scratches...and the same thing going from 1200-3000. Hmmmm....things are clicking now from what I was seeing. Did I say you're awesome? |
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Post by jasoninsd on Jul 30, 2021 22:18:26 GMT -5
the above posts are excellent advice even the ol'mohs is learning crazing on the slick stone so I don;t need to buy a new Genie actually that would be exactly the wrong idea I got a worn out Pixie just need to buy a ticket almost doable ha ha  |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Jul 30, 2021 22:20:43 GMT -5
Hey Krystee tntmom! It's great to see you on here giving your sage obsidian advice. 
jasoninsd I was going to tell you to go to cerium right after the 3,000, but Krystee beat me to it. Haven't been on the forum all day (working on a pendant).
Sorry you were having such trouble today. Here's an idea -- knock off for the night and watch the new episode of Dino Hunters on Discovery. |
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Post by jasoninsd on Jul 30, 2021 22:32:16 GMT -5
Hey Krystee tntmom ! It's great to see you on here giving your sage obsidian advice.
jasoninsd I was going to tell you to go to cerium right after the 3,000, but Krystee beat me to it. Haven't been on the forum all day (working on a pendant).
Sorry you were having such trouble today. Here's an idea -- knock off for the night and watch the new episode of Dino Hunters on Discovery.   You seriously are getting to know me all too well! That was EXACTLY what was going to happen! I don't know why this was frustrating me so badly today...maybe it was just the one step forward and two steps back feeling all day! LOL - I think it was more that I all of a sudden felt like I'd learned nothing over the last 8 months! My wife just went to bed. She was trying to stay up for Dino Hunters, but couldn't make it...so we'll DVR it for tomorrow...but it WAS the plan! LOL |
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