krissykitty
starting to shine!
Member since May 2021
Posts: 25
|
Post by krissykitty on Aug 5, 2021 3:52:11 GMT -5
Hello again everyone! In one of my barrels currently I am tumbling some Sodalite.
I'm still quite new to tumbling in general, and I know that this can be a trickier stone to tumble, but I was prepared to check it somewhat regularly. However, it appears as though the slurry isn't really forming and there's been a ton of foam in the barrel since around day 1-2. Honestly so much foam, that when I shake the barrel, I hardly hear any movement. I feel as though the foam is causing the slurry to not form, and hindering the rocks from tumbling properly. The Sodalite has been in there for 5 days now, and I've taken some pieces out to check them (with the foamy slurry still on them) and they still appear to be the same. When I clean my hands after, there's a ton of fresh grit left.
I've tried to fix this problem before posting - I saw threads saying to use Borax or sugar to combat the foam. Neither has helped in this scenario, unfortunately. I've added some water, later emptied some of the slurry/water, trying to find some sort of change that will cause the foam to go down, but no luck.
I am using a 3lb Lortone barrel in a 33B. I filled the barrel about 3/4 full of rock. My recipe was 1/8 cup water, 1/8 cup slurry (from previous tumbles - this slurry has never caused any other issues), 4tbsp 60/90 grit. This recipe has been working well for me in the past for tiger eye, agate, and self-found rocks. I'm aware that the liquid content overall may be a bit low, but this has been the best result for my slurry for other barrels/stones so far.
I also will say that I only put in Sodalite, small pieces (probably around 1"-1.25") that I received from rockshed.com. These pieces were smaller than I expected, and unfortunately I don't think I have anything near the softness of the Sodalite to add to them. I also added about 10% media (which I'm using self-found quartz pebbles and small pea gravel for, since ceramic is quite expensive and I currently have my ceramic in my Lot-o).
Any ideas? At this point I'm looking forward to just dumping (hopefully able to save the unused grit) and starting over... but if there's any way I can save it currently, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Here are some photos of the cursed foam in question:
|
|
|
Post by perkins17 on Aug 5, 2021 10:19:50 GMT -5
krissykitty, if the rocks are very rough with sharp edges there might be foam. I also use the 33b and have had cases where the smooth stone in one barrel crated no foam and the rough stones did. I believe it has to do with the gaps between the stones somehow. I might suggest adding ceramic pellets but I'm not sure. Take a rock and rinse it off and if it shows grinding action, leave it running with the foam. If not, maybe try pellets. I'm not sure about my theory but I have had that issue also.
|
|
RedWingTumbler
having dreams about rocks
Member since April 2021
Posts: 65
|
Post by RedWingTumbler on Aug 5, 2021 12:17:59 GMT -5
I have a batch of sodalite in polish right now & it has also been quite foamy through all the stages. Nevertheless, the stones have been doing just fine. They shaped very fast in stage 1 (about 3 days in my Nat. Geo. 3lb tumbler at speed 3 - I would guess that they only need about a week in a Lortone). After that, they went through each of the other stages in 6-7 days (at speed 1). I don't think they require any slurry thickener, since they are fairly soft & create their own slurry. I have been using quite a bit of ceramics (about 20-25%) for cushioning & to help move the grit. So far, that has been a good strategy, as they were already quite glossy going into the polish, with no signs of chipping or bruising. I'm basically using this recipe: rocktumbler.com/rough/sodalite.shtml, with the exception that I split stage 3 into 4 days with 500 AO & 3 days with 1000 AO, which has worked well for me with other softer rocks. I'm also using cerium oxide, instead of aluminum oxide polish, although I doubt it will change the outcome much - it's just something I'm experimenting with.
If your grit isn't breaking down & your rocks aren't shaping, you might have overfilled the barrel (based on the information that you were at 3/4 full). You could try removing a few rocks until you reach 2/3 full.
|
|
|
Post by Bob on Aug 6, 2021 18:28:11 GMT -5
You can save unused grit by rinsing well, pouring off water, and letting barrel dry then pour out dry grit.
From time to time, rarely, I've seen similar foam and like you found it to hinder grinding.
Never have done 100% sodalite, just 50% at time, not that I would avoid 100%. Have no idea what causes the foam.
|
|
krissykitty
starting to shine!
Member since May 2021
Posts: 25
|
Post by krissykitty on Aug 8, 2021 8:03:03 GMT -5
perkins17 RedWingTumbler Bob Thank you all so much for your replies! I really do appreciate it. I emptied the barrel last night and it definitely still had a decent amount of unused grit left. It doesn't appear that they rounded at all.. if anything, I think they may have gotten smaller overall in size, but not much rounding. Even the quartz pebbles that I added in didn't feel smooth like they usually do. After reading everyone's advice, I decided to redo the recipe a bit - I actually was following the same recipe that RedWingTumbler linked, but I probably eyeballed it poorly. This time I've made sure the measurements are hopefully accurate to that recipe. I still don't have any ceramic media that I can add, unfortunately, but I did add a decent chunk more of the quartz pebbles that will hopefully act in a similar way. I added mostly bigger chunks of them, in case the batch needed more of a size difference in rocks (previously the sodalite was all around the same size due to what I had, as was the quartz). What I ended up doing this time around was 2/3 full overall, with 3/4 of that being sodalite and 1/4 being filler. 1/8 cup slurry, 1/8 cup water, 3 tbsp grit. I decided to do less grit, as I feel as though I can always add another tbsp if it actually starts forming a good slurry this time. Unfortunately, about 30mins after it started tumbling again, our power went out. It stayed off for maybe 2-3 hours - I'm hoping that this doesn't affect anything lol. Here are some photos! Left side shows rough, untouched sodalite. Right side is the amount that I decided to remove from the barrel this week.
Amount of sodalite for this week:
Amount of pebbles that I had previously, last week:
Pebble amount this week. This is how I filled it before adding slurry, water, and grit for this week:
|
|
|
Post by perkins17 on Aug 8, 2021 11:30:10 GMT -5
krissykitty, I think that should fix your foam problem. My foam never effected the grinding. If you have foam again, add small rocks to fill the spaces in between the rocks.
|
|
RedWingTumbler
having dreams about rocks
Member since April 2021
Posts: 65
|
Post by RedWingTumbler on Aug 8, 2021 12:44:24 GMT -5
krissykitty, I think that should fix your foam problem. My foam never effected the grinding. If you have foam again, add small rocks to fill the spaces in between the rocks. I agree, I think you will have the best luck with lots of small pieces in between the big ones. The small pieces will carry the grit to the big pieces, allowing it to contact more surface area & grind more efficiently. My mix is about 1/3 large pieces (1 to 2 inches) & 2/3 small pieces (1/4” to 1/2”).
|
|
krissykitty
starting to shine!
Member since May 2021
Posts: 25
|
Post by krissykitty on Aug 8, 2021 14:14:04 GMT -5
perkins17 RedWingTumbler I do have some small pieces in there, about 1/2" in size. Some of them show in the third picture in my last post. The sodalite was already quite small so I wasn't sure if I needed to add smaller pieces or bigger pieces haha, though you guys are probably right about the smaller pieces. I may add a bit more pea gravel in if needed, as I don't think it'd affect much and it'd get in the gaps that way. But I did just give it a check and it seemed as though it was going a lot better so far - it just hasn't had quite long enough yet to form the slurry but I'll keep you posted! It definitely doesn't have much foam yet, so that's awesome. Also, that ratio of small to large pieces is quite helpful, RedWingTumbler, thank you!
|
|
|
Post by perkins17 on Aug 8, 2021 14:32:31 GMT -5
Glad to help krissykitty! I hope you have great results.
|
|
RedWingTumbler
having dreams about rocks
Member since April 2021
Posts: 65
|
Post by RedWingTumbler on Aug 8, 2021 15:12:33 GMT -5
krissykitty , to set your mind at ease about the foam, I decided to open my barrel a few days early (normally, I don't peek until the cycle is done.) This is what my slurry has looked like throughout the entire process with the sodalite:
|
|
|
Post by Jugglerguy on Aug 8, 2021 16:28:16 GMT -5
I don't worry about foam. It seems like everyone who posts about foam is a beginner and has opened the barrel before a week. I think foam might be more likely after just a couple days, but I'm not sure. I rarely open foamy barrels after seven days, but as I said, I don't worry about it when I do.
|
|
|
Post by perkins17 on Aug 8, 2021 22:27:34 GMT -5
krissykitty , to set your mind at ease about the foam, I decided to open my barrel a few days early (normally, I don't peek until the cycle is done.) This is what my slurry has looked like throughout the entire process with the sodalite: That's about what sharp rocks look like in my tumbler as well. Same type of foam. What krissykitty had going on looked different than mine.
|
|
krissykitty
starting to shine!
Member since May 2021
Posts: 25
|
Post by krissykitty on Aug 11, 2021 4:45:20 GMT -5
Sorry for my late responses! RedWingTumbler , thank you so much for taking the time to do that for me! It is really helpful. I think that is what my slurry looks like now after changing things up a bit. Currently, my conclusion of what caused the original problem is that I overfilled, as you suggested. I do still notice some bits of grit but I'm hoping that they'll be used up this time. I've seen another old post in regards to sodalite that seemed to say that it takes longer for the grit to break down for sodalite in particular and that this person typically waits 2 weeks per charge on it instead of the usual 1 week. Perhaps that will be the case with mine. I'm just surprised, as everything I read online previously about tumbling sodalite made it seem that it was something that happened quite quickly and that it needed a watchful eye. I wouldn't normally check on my tumble this often, but from reading about sodalite in particular I thought it was part of the process for softer stones. Perhaps this isn't always the case! Also, Jugglerguy , I think I was/am more concerned about the grit not being used up and not having any tumbling action moreso than the presence of foam. If the foam had been there, and the grit was used and the stones had started to round out like usual, I don't believe I would have been bothered by it. My problem was moreso that no grinding action was happening. However, such a big amount of dense foam was a definite visual indicator that something was different than usual for me. After thinking about it, I do believe the cause of the problem was overfilling. I think perhaps if I had overfilled a little bit with my usual stones, it wouldn't have caused as noticeable of a problem. But I think that because I overfilled the sodalite, it caused even more foam and/or denser foam than usual, so between the dense foam and the overfill, nothing could move well enough to get the grinding action needed to form a slurry. (also by the way, thank you for all of your videos on Youtube! They really helped me get started with this addiction hobby. I'm generally a lurker so I don't typically comment but I do really appreciate them.) perkins17 Thank you so much! After figuring things out, I think I may have a better slurry now. I can definitely confirm that my previous one was different, at least from the slurry that I have going now (I'll try to post pictures of the new slurry when I empty it). The original problem slurry was much more dense and would not dissipate. Again, when I shook the barrel when I was having the problem, it felt like nothing was moving, so I can't imagine that it was tumbling very well. With this new slurry, if I shake the barrel a bit, I can definitely hear good movement.
|
|
|
Post by perkins17 on Aug 11, 2021 11:26:29 GMT -5
Sorry for my late responses! RedWingTumbler , thank you so much for taking the time to do that for me! It is really helpful. I think that is what my slurry looks like now after changing things up a bit. Currently, my conclusion of what caused the original problem is that I overfilled, as you suggested. I do still notice some bits of grit but I'm hoping that they'll be used up this time. I've seen another old post in regards to sodalite that seemed to say that it takes longer for the grit to break down for sodalite in particular and that this person typically waits 2 weeks per charge on it instead of the usual 1 week. Perhaps that will be the case with mine. I'm just surprised, as everything I read online previously about tumbling sodalite made it seem that it was something that happened quite quickly and that it needed a watchful eye. I wouldn't normally check on my tumble this often, but from reading about sodalite in particular I thought it was part of the process for softer stones. Perhaps this isn't always the case! Also, Jugglerguy , I think I was/am more concerned about the grit not being used up and not having any tumbling action moreso than the presence of foam. If the foam had been there, and the grit was used and the stones had started to round out like usual, I don't believe I would have been bothered by it. My problem was moreso that no grinding action was happening. However, such a big amount of dense foam was a definite visual indicator that something was different than usual for me. After thinking about it, I do believe the cause of the problem was overfilling. I think perhaps if I had overfilled a little bit with my usual stones, it wouldn't have caused as noticeable of a problem. But I think that because I overfilled the sodalite, it caused even more foam and/or denser foam than usual, so between the dense foam and the overfill, nothing could move well enough to get the grinding action needed to form a slurry. (also by the way, thank you for all of your videos on Youtube! They really helped me get started with this addiction hobby. I'm generally a lurker so I don't typically comment but I do really appreciate them.) perkins17 Thank you so much! After figuring things out, I think I may have a better slurry now. I can definitely confirm that my previous one was different, at least from the slurry that I have going now (I'll try to post pictures of the new slurry when I empty it). The original problem slurry was much more dense and would not dissipate. Again, when I shook the barrel when I was having the problem, it felt like nothing was moving, so I can't imagine that it was tumbling very well. With this new slurry, if I shake the barrel a bit, I can definitely hear good movement. Great! Hope you have good results.
|
|
|
Post by Mel on Aug 11, 2021 21:25:42 GMT -5
I've never worried about foam. I just keep on rollin'. I've read that it can be caused by things like dirt or other flotsam getting in with the rocks, but I've also seen it on rocks that I washed and then tumbled. No harm, no foul at any rate.
Do you add your grit after the water, or before? That could be part of why there's so much at the bottom. Try shaking up the barrel before you set it rolling, or add slightly less water to the barrel.
|
|
|
Post by Jugglerguy on Aug 17, 2021 10:22:44 GMT -5
Sorry for my late responses! RedWingTumbler , thank you so much for taking the time to do that for me! It is really helpful. I think that is what my slurry looks like now after changing things up a bit. Currently, my conclusion of what caused the original problem is that I overfilled, as you suggested. I do still notice some bits of grit but I'm hoping that they'll be used up this time. I've seen another old post in regards to sodalite that seemed to say that it takes longer for the grit to break down for sodalite in particular and that this person typically waits 2 weeks per charge on it instead of the usual 1 week. Perhaps that will be the case with mine. I'm just surprised, as everything I read online previously about tumbling sodalite made it seem that it was something that happened quite quickly and that it needed a watchful eye. I wouldn't normally check on my tumble this often, but from reading about sodalite in particular I thought it was part of the process for softer stones. Perhaps this isn't always the case! Also, Jugglerguy , I think I was/am more concerned about the grit not being used up and not having any tumbling action moreso than the presence of foam. If the foam had been there, and the grit was used and the stones had started to round out like usual, I don't believe I would have been bothered by it. My problem was moreso that no grinding action was happening. However, such a big amount of dense foam was a definite visual indicator that something was different than usual for me. After thinking about it, I do believe the cause of the problem was overfilling. I think perhaps if I had overfilled a little bit with my usual stones, it wouldn't have caused as noticeable of a problem. But I think that because I overfilled the sodalite, it caused even more foam and/or denser foam than usual, so between the dense foam and the overfill, nothing could move well enough to get the grinding action needed to form a slurry. (also by the way, thank you for all of your videos on Youtube! They really helped me get started with this addiction hobby. I'm generally a lurker so I don't typically comment but I do really appreciate them.) perkins17 Thank you so much! After figuring things out, I think I may have a better slurry now. I can definitely confirm that my previous one was different, at least from the slurry that I have going now (I'll try to post pictures of the new slurry when I empty it). The original problem slurry was much more dense and would not dissipate. Again, when I shook the barrel when I was having the problem, it felt like nothing was moving, so I can't imagine that it was tumbling very well. With this new slurry, if I shake the barrel a bit, I can definitely hear good movement. Overfilling the barrel will slow down the action inside, so I agree that might be all or part of the problem you experienced. Having grit left over is definitely a sign that grinding is no longer taking place, so I agree with your thought process.
|
|
|
Post by stephan on Aug 17, 2021 22:44:55 GMT -5
If the foam ever causes problems for anyone, a little bit of anything that reduces surface tension (silicone, mineral oil, rubbing alcohol) can act as an anti foam, and help reduce it.
|
|