JR8675309
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since August 2019
Posts: 807
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Post by JR8675309 on Aug 24, 2021 8:37:40 GMT -5
Good morning, in a separate thread I mentioned having the winning bid on a Lortone Vibratory Lap FL-20 at silent auction. At home I discovered the balls and springs were missing (I didn't know that was a thing). This isn't a big deal as now I realize these are easily replaceable with super balls - thanks to jasoninsd for pointing that out and the RTH forum folks who posted such info. I picked out springs at ACE yesterday. I also talked to Cigar Box Rocks that suggested golf balls and ACE. So this bit is covered. The Power cord: The motor on the machine is a Dayton 3MXXS (maybe 3M50S) I should have snagged a pic. It is wired to a brown, thin lamp cord. When changing the cord, should I use: 1-A 3 prong grounded cord assuming I can find the grounding screw without taking the power posts off? 2-Use a thick 2 prong cord? Full disclosure: Research needed as to how long a stage lasts in Vibe flat lap. I would run machine 24 X 7, if that's what people do with these. If I do wind up running it that much, would a 3 ground plug be warranted or just a thicket cord? As always, thanks for reading and offering advice.
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AzRockGeek
has rocks in the head
Member since September 2016
Posts: 682
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Post by AzRockGeek on Aug 24, 2021 8:50:49 GMT -5
From my personal experience, Vib laps are not something that you can leave unintended for long period of times, the pans will dry out (At least in Az). As far as the three wire cord, it never hurts to have the extra safety of the Ground wire since will be working with water. I generally go to HD and buy short extension cords and cut them down as needed.
Good luck.
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Post by HankRocks on Aug 24, 2021 10:43:52 GMT -5
JR8675309 I never run my Vib Lap(20inch) at night, complications can arise that need to be dealt with. Instead of golf Balls, I have found that Super Balls work real well, you can usually find them at a Dollar Store. It's been over 2 years and I have not worn out a set yet. Golf Balls would seem to hard and may add to the noise factor. As AzRockGeek said, buy a short heavier wire extension cord and use it. I would hook up the ground, there is water in the pan so no reason to not connect it. Get it running and we can talk about run times.
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Post by oregon on Aug 24, 2021 11:19:06 GMT -5
These motors usually draw about an amp, approximately equivalent to a 100 watt incandescent bulb. 18-14 gauge extension cords ('lamp cord') are spec'd for something like 10-15 amps. It's pretty cheap to make 'thick' cords by making thick vinyl insulation with thin wires these days... If the insulation is brittle,cracked etc it would be imperative to change it, a ground won't hurt, and 'thicker' cord will let you sleep better, but it's not like the original setup was way under spec'd. 2c.
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rewdownunder
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2012
Posts: 357
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Post by rewdownunder on Aug 24, 2021 14:19:54 GMT -5
Great find! there is lots of information on using these on the web and this site. Do you know of a source for the springs? I need some but no longer have one to compare. Lortone's site has a set of instructions and parts list as a PDF. As others have stated keep an eye on it and do not let the pan dry out with grit in it. It will take days to clean up. If you are using it a lot a cheap pressure washer from harbor freight helps with cleanouts of both the rocks and the pan.
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JR8675309
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since August 2019
Posts: 807
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Post by JR8675309 on Aug 24, 2021 14:54:07 GMT -5
@azrockgeek thanks for the info. Yes, it's super dry here in the high desert of OR and I forgot about the factor of drying out. I know some folks set up IVs to drip when in use. Something to think about, I have some for my cat, so that's easy to procure. @hankrocks I had the same thought about the golf balls, they seem pretty rigid. I'm still evaluating whether more bounce is better or not, that said super balls are fairly firm without being "hard". oregon I get the feeling this is an "after market" cord which is why I was concerned with the amp load. Not worried about sleeping at night so much as being careful and responsible to the beings in my house .added: also I think you are spot on about "padding" thicker cords. rewdownunder I do have an example, so I will send those to you. I was able to get a replacement on cheap @ ACE. I saw the parts list @ Lortone website, but everything was a dead end except that KN had the balls $5 and double that in shipping. The only thing I do not know how to convey to you is the tension of the spring.
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rewdownunder
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2012
Posts: 357
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Post by rewdownunder on Aug 24, 2021 16:36:57 GMT -5
While I think the superballs are the best bet I wonder if you cut the covers off the golf balls if that would soften them up a bit. The balls that came with my lap a FL-15 are slightly larger than a golf ball but I do not know if they are original or replacements. I do not think you want the pan to bounce up and down just side to side. Otherwise you would break contact with the rocks and the pan surface. I think all the balls are for is to allow movement without metal to metal contact. Lortones new laps do not have balls at all. Did you get 2 pans with yours?
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Post by HankRocks on Aug 24, 2021 17:33:26 GMT -5
While I think the superballs are the best bet I wonder if you cut the covers off the golf balls if that would soften them up a bit. The balls that came with my lap a FL-15 are slightly larger than a golf ball but I do not know if they are original or replacements. I do not think you want the pan to bounce up and down just side to side. Otherwise you would break contact with the rocks and the pan surface. I think all the balls are for is to allow movement without metal to metal contact. Lortones new laps do not have balls at all. Did you get 2 pans with yours? The Superballs have worked great for over 3 years. No issues with too much bounce as the 3 springs I use are adequate for the task of holding the pan in place. The Superballs also act like shock absorbers isolating the frame for the vibrating plate/pan. The problem with taking covers off of golf balls is that the resulting inner ball would be too small not providing enough separation between the vibrating plate and the pan. That and I suspect the inner ball would start to "un-wind" with vibration. That would be a mess!! The main failure point for Vibrating Flat Laps is motor failure. The basic design of counterweight directly attached to the motor shaft is not the best and the motor will eventually fail. I always look for motors with a beefed up collar on the shaft end, preferably with ball bearings and not the plastic sleeve bearings. I am on my 3rd motor in 4 years. The best design would have an indirect drive with the counterweight on a separate shaft attached to the plate.
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rewdownunder
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2012
Posts: 357
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Post by rewdownunder on Aug 24, 2021 18:35:01 GMT -5
I agree the Rose laps built in the 1960s had indirect drive with the counterweight on a separate shaft attached to the plate. Much less stress on the motor. I think someone is still making these but they are very expensive.
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Post by HankRocks on Aug 24, 2021 18:46:30 GMT -5
I have an old 20 inch lap that a friend gave me. Have plans to re-build it with an indirect drive. It's on "The List".
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JR8675309
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since August 2019
Posts: 807
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Post by JR8675309 on Aug 24, 2021 21:04:42 GMT -5
rewdownunder, yes two pans came with, one with a polish pad. HankRocks, what size are the super balls you have on your machine? As luck would have it I found a missing spring but still haven't purchased super balls. here are the springs rewdownunder
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rewdownunder
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2012
Posts: 357
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Post by rewdownunder on Aug 24, 2021 23:33:28 GMT -5
Thank you for the spring photos. Looks pretty basic I will pick up some and it looks like I can adjust the tension till it works right. It is my understanding that one of the tricks to this type of lap is getting the right amount of weight on the slab or chunk of rock so it grinds well. Mine came with a box of homemade lead weights that were attached to the rocks with dope wax or some kind of glue. I cut large PVC pipe rings to keep the rocks separated. I also received two rolls of heavy duck tape with the lap. I do not know why.
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JR8675309
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since August 2019
Posts: 807
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Post by JR8675309 on Aug 25, 2021 14:07:05 GMT -5
rewdownunder, pvc pipe rings sounds better than my plan to use rubber tubing. I have to load weights. And the duct tape, well, who knows!
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JR8675309
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since August 2019
Posts: 807
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Post by JR8675309 on Aug 25, 2021 16:31:58 GMT -5
rewdownunder do you use 600 grit SiC as the Lortone booklet calls for?
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rewdownunder
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2012
Posts: 357
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Post by rewdownunder on Aug 25, 2021 17:37:45 GMT -5
I do a lot of Septarians on that lap so I use 220 400 and 600 then to polish but they are soft and grind quickly. I also for some reason have collected a lot of 600 from old collections so I use it as a final grit on almost everything. I must have 50lbs of 600 grit but always have to buy the lower grits.
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JR8675309
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since August 2019
Posts: 807
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Post by JR8675309 on Aug 25, 2021 17:50:34 GMT -5
I do a lot of Septarians on that lap so I use 220 400 and 600 then to polish but they are soft and grind quickly. I also for some reason have collected a lot of 600 from old collections so I use it as a final grit on almost everything. I must have 50lbs of 600 grit but always have to buy the lower grits. Gotcha. Yeah idk where to get the 600. Or 400.
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Post by jasoninsd on Aug 25, 2021 19:18:21 GMT -5
JR8675309 - I know you tried to tag Henry (Hank), but his username isn't hankrocks - it's actually "henryrocks" - if you hover your cursor over someone's yellow username on your PC, it brings up a pop-up with their actual name to tag them...just an FYI.
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JR8675309
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since August 2019
Posts: 807
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Post by JR8675309 on Aug 25, 2021 19:32:32 GMT -5
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rewdownunder
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2012
Posts: 357
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Post by rewdownunder on Aug 25, 2021 20:18:47 GMT -5
With grit shipping is the cost factor. I am lucky Johnson Bros Lapidary is near a friends house in So Cal and I have him pick it up and get from him when I get down that way on a weekend when there is not so much traffic. Their mail order service has problems ( read the vender section) Check out the posts in the tumbling section as those guys buy a lot of grit. I kick myself every time I buy grit as 5 years ago I helped break up an estate that had over 900 lbs of grit and polish in 50lbs drums that went for next to nothing. I did not have any indoor space to store it and it was the wet season and I knew it would take forever to resell it. If you have to have it shipped flat rate boxes are the way to go.
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JR8675309
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since August 2019
Posts: 807
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Post by JR8675309 on Aug 29, 2021 8:30:15 GMT -5
Anyone have experience with motors getting power but not turning? Such is the case with the vibe. Sigh. I can turn the shaft manually, but it doesn't go under its own power. thanks.
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