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Post by 1dave on Sept 30, 2021 12:15:29 GMT -5
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Post by 1dave on Sept 30, 2021 19:06:49 GMT -5
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Benathema
has rocks in the head
God chased me down and made sure I knew He was real June 20, 2022. I've been on a Divine Mission.
Member since November 2019
Posts: 703
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Post by Benathema on Sept 30, 2021 20:01:24 GMT -5
Lines get fuzzy and pinpointing which interactions are what can depend on who drew the lines.
This becomes more apparent when classifying hydrogen bonds. Weak, strong, super strong, low barrier, inclusive of those where the one hydrogen atom is nearly equally shared between both electronegative atoms, as if it is covalently bonded to both.
Beyond that, we're taught these hydrogen bonds form when hydrogen is the meat of an electronegative atom sandwich, particularly N, O, and F; so long as the angles and distances are correct. But, that's not an absolute definition. Hydrogen bonding character can be seen even with Carbon, such as polysaccharide species like cellulose.
Then it gets more interesting with pi-pi interactions, or cation-pi, and anion-pi. Even more so with London dispersion and Van der Waals.
But what is it that we're talking about here? The spectrum of phenomenon within the electromagnetic force. We apply labels to it, because that's useful for communicating information to each other, but the universe does what it wants regardless of the labels we place on it.
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Post by mohs on Oct 1, 2021 10:59:09 GMT -5
mind boggles in the depth of analytical minutiae so tend to go philosophical
last night I had another stunning in light the bonding forces are aware
what do I mean? Mohs are you pan- psychic ?
Not sure Butte it seems like awareness comes from a force A substratum of the electro-magnetic weak & strong bonds
Empedocles 2 forces of impedance love & strife to put it in life terms
Just seems that in order to be aware A force to needs to be active
May begin in the reactions of atomic bonds Hence cellular molecules react to electro/chemical spectrum's
Move toward or away That is a primitive form of awareness
Build up a cascading complexity of molecules and agency emerges.
Well none of this explains the fundamental mystery
& I may lean towards a top down explanation
Platonic forms....
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Post by 1dave on Oct 1, 2021 21:14:57 GMT -5
mohs, I believe there are billions (perhaps trillions) of electrons in the universe for every proton! With hydrogen we have ONE tiny proton - 1836 times bigger than the equal charged electron zipping around it somewhere between 2,200 miles per second and the speed of light. What keeps it in orbit in a space much smaller than the point of a pin? It must be much more than the equal charge of the proton. I believe it is the repulsion of the billions of free electrons surrounding it. Heat is stored as increased vibrational energy in the nucleus, and that increasing energy frequently kicks the atoms electrons out of orbit, generating electromagnetic waves - sound, radio. light, etc. The old electron is a moving on and long gone - BUT is instantly replaced by a nearby free electron! Water waves are generated by water molecules jostling their neighbors, but like a people wave in a football stadium, seldom move far unless there is also a current. The same is true with ground waves and ground particles, sound waves and air particles. AND light waves and electrons. There have to be lots of electrons for light to travel from one end of the universe to the other! Energy and Matter are interchangeable, BUT WHAT IS LIFE?
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Post by mohs on Oct 2, 2021 11:14:10 GMT -5
1dave that was a real pleasure to read. Excellent! Ah butte asking is a Planck step to far <insert chewbacca> How do certain molecules envelopes itself into a cell membrane? Life as partition A thin thin boundary, indeed ! Perhaps this cell then mirrors the surrounding maelstrom in some new ordered way ? Now were off to the races. Eventually the 'hard problem of consciousness' emerges. mind in motion... Barbara lecture and examples are thought provoking! Keep on!
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Post by 1dave on Oct 2, 2021 12:56:41 GMT -5
Electrons and Protons existed before stars. Stars get their energy by compressing electrons and protons into ever heavier elements that interact in ever more complex ways. BUT what energizes the electrons and protons and magnetism? Our brains store information much as electromagnetism stores information on tapes and disks, . . . But what is life? Just another chemical reaction like fire? Or is it something totally different than matter and energy? I think it is something totally different.
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Post by amygdule on Oct 2, 2021 13:46:08 GMT -5
From my perspective, that is where God comes into play The Unknowable
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Benathema
has rocks in the head
God chased me down and made sure I knew He was real June 20, 2022. I've been on a Divine Mission.
Member since November 2019
Posts: 703
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Post by Benathema on Oct 2, 2021 14:53:36 GMT -5
On the philosophical side of things. Worth the 37 minutes.
Signed,
A collection of disturbances in the quantum field currently acting Ben-like.
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Post by mohs on Oct 2, 2021 14:54:37 GMT -5
As noted earlier been meaning to give my top down view its started way back ya see….
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Post by amygdule on Oct 2, 2021 17:06:45 GMT -5
It started way back when Man inhaled Helium and then Started talking in a funny voice
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Post by 1dave on Oct 2, 2021 18:08:55 GMT -5
On the philosophical side of things. Worth the 37 minutes. Signed, A collection of disturbances in the quantum field currently acting Ben-like. Thanks for that! It reminded me of my very young self wondering if areas turned on as I entered them and turned off as I left. Does reality only exist when I am awake?
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Post by amygdule on Oct 2, 2021 18:47:06 GMT -5
Your'e just an Individual living in a bubble of your Own Reality
When you Rest, Sleep and Dream the rest of the World Is always spinning Bye
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Post by mohs on Oct 3, 2021 11:16:12 GMT -5
from the bottom up view of life whether the moon exist when one is not observing it is a thorny question hard to prove empirically and what other tools does this view have to verify external reality? Inductive reasoning? Sort of a fail Deductive logic Fine as far as it goes Butte 100% certainty Will always be elusive. So what about the top down view of life? Descartes reasoning is probably our best guide In his quest to doubt everything He couldn’t doubt his own self-awareness of course he could be dreaming his self awareness or a divine trickster could be fooling him Wittengenstein opined; Life is a dream. Some awake to realize it. Butte prefer to go back to sleep or Ignorance is bliss Somehow Descartes stayed awake & from his top down view a divine trickster was out of the question That wouldn’t be gneiss…mostly Take a shot just in case
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