jhill5tx
off to a rocking start
Member since October 2021
Posts: 12
|
Post by jhill5tx on Oct 21, 2021 19:17:36 GMT -5
Never have I tumbled rocks before. I have a kitchen island top that I want to do. Which is going to require a lot of petrified wood. It’s roughly 8’x8’ and will be covered in epoxy. I have enough petrified wood to cover it and have built a tumbler and a couple barrels. Both barrels are pvc one is 6” the other 8” both are 16” long and I’ve straightened the walls so now they’re six sided internally. So now that y’all all know I’m a ready,fire,aim kind of guy. I’d like some suggestions on what to do next. Thank you, John
|
|
|
Post by perkins17 on Oct 21, 2021 19:20:43 GMT -5
Never have I tumbled rocks before. I have a kitchen island top that I want to do. Which is going to require a lot of petrified wood. It’s roughly 8’x8’ and will be covered in epoxy. I have enough petrified wood to cover it and have built a tumbler and a couple barrels. Both barrels are pvc one is 6” the other 8” both are 16” long and I’ve straightened the walls so now they’re six sided internally. So now that y’all all know I’m a ready,fire,aim kind of guy. I’d like some suggestions on what to do next. Thank you, John Hi John, if you don't already have it, check out buying some silicon carbide grit (either 47/60 or 60/90) and some polish. I personally use Aluminum oxide polish. What Rpms does it turn at? I think a Lortone 12 lber turns at around 30. Good luck!
|
|
jhill5tx
off to a rocking start
Member since October 2021
Posts: 12
|
Post by jhill5tx on Oct 21, 2021 19:36:57 GMT -5
The 8” one turns at 40 rpm I haven’t checked speed on six inch. Guessing 50-60 range. I have 46 and 60 grit.
|
|
|
Post by jasoninsd on Oct 21, 2021 20:37:55 GMT -5
Hey John! Welcome to the forum from South Dakota! I chuckled at your self-describing: ready, fire, aim approach. So...I'm definitely not putting down your idea...I like the idea of incorporating the petrified wood into the counter! In fact, I love the idea! If you're planning on pouring epoxy over the pieces, why would you need to tumble the pieces? Have you considered cleaning the pieces VERY thoroughly and leaving them in their natural state? Have you thought about doing a "test" piece...maybe a 1'x1' piece to see what it would look like? Just spouting thoughts...
|
|
|
Post by perkins17 on Oct 21, 2021 20:49:23 GMT -5
The 8” one turns at 40 rpm I haven’t checked speed on six inch. Guessing 50-60 range. I have 46 and 60 grit. That should be good for tumbling! I'm waiting for a technically savvy RTHer to chime in with better advice. I use strictly factory built tumblers.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,560
|
Post by jamesp on Oct 22, 2021 5:29:06 GMT -5
The 8” one turns at 40 rpm I haven’t checked speed on six inch. Guessing 50-60 range. I have 46 and 60 grit. Are you just wanting to round and shape ?(i.e. step 1 coarse grit) I tumble with 6 inch pipe barrels jhill5tx. 8 inch pipe barrels occasionally at ~40rpm. 50 to 60 rpm for the 6" is rather fast and really best for the coarse grit shaping. And add clay for a slurry thicker to a milk shake consistency for padding(at that high speed) and fill barrel 70%. And add rocks to maintain close to 70% as the rocks shrink just to be safe. Also, if all the pet wood is small(under 1.25 to 1.5 inches) the tumble will be much more gentle. I define 'heavy' rocks at 80 grams and heavier. Rough rule of thumb. If you are planning on larger pieces the clay slurry becomes more important to protect your rocks from impact damage. Especially at 50/60rpm. I really manage my clay thickened slurry carefully to milk shake consistency when running a 6" barrel at faster 80rpm. At those high speeds abrasives can be added say in half doses every 2 days to speed grind. You may have to pour some slurry off and add water when it gets too thick. Higher speeds means a faster tumble shaping but also requires protection by either using clay or 80% fill or lots of smalls. Take your pick. I prefer half that speed for 220-500-1000-polish steps. Finish steps are sensitive to impacts at such speeds. Especially polish. Like jasoninsd mentioned there may be no need to do 220-500-1000-polish steps if you are pouring epoxy over them. All this may seem complicated but it is not. I pop the cap and check the slurry thickness, pour off if too thick and add water, chunk a half dose of coarse grit in, close cap and start again. Takes a minute or two every 2 to 3 days. And do a total clean out every 7 to 10 days. Add fresh clay and a full charge of abrasive. good luck. PS Would like to see a photo of your tumbler.
|
|
|
Post by jasoninsd on Oct 22, 2021 7:46:16 GMT -5
jamesp - Excellent write-up with some very valuable information! Thanks for posting that! jhill5tx - Another thing to consider: If you have the ability to cut the petrified wood in half (width-wise) then you'll accomplish a couple things...you'll get twice the amount of coverage with the same amount of rock...and you'll also bring the weight of the entire counter down a bit. Also, having a "flat bottom" on each piece of petrified wood will allow them to sit nicer... Again...not my project...just interjecting food for thought.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,560
|
Post by jamesp on Oct 22, 2021 7:55:08 GMT -5
|
|
Chris Sikk
having dreams about rocks
Member since September 2021
Posts: 73
|
Post by Chris Sikk on Oct 22, 2021 10:06:46 GMT -5
You've really got some excellent advice from some seasoned vets!
I have a bunch of petrified wood and I have tumbled a few pieces to get a feel for how they turn out (technically I must file paperwork in my province before modifying or selling in my province, oops). So, I can tell you what I have done successfully.
I have a small, 3lb rotary tumbler and the petrified wood has gone through: stage 1 with 60/90 grit for 8-12 days stage 2 with 120/220 grit another 10-12 Burnish with borax and plastic beads for 2hrs stage 3 with 500f and new plastic beads for 7-10 stage 4 with CPP and new plastic beads for 10-14
This process has resulted in some very nice looking pieces. I do find petrified wood looks amazing raw and was hesitant about polishing them, but 90% of them that I have done still show the wood grain.
As others have said, you may not need to do all the stages if you'll be encasing them in epoxy. In comparison to other rocks I have tumbled in the same batches, the petrified wood always stands out. I am hoping that a final burnishing stage may help the other rocks, but the petrified wood never disappoints.
|
|
jhill5tx
off to a rocking start
Member since October 2021
Posts: 12
|
Post by jhill5tx on Oct 22, 2021 17:37:15 GMT -5
Hey John! Welcome to the forum from South Dakota! I chuckled at your self-describing: ready, fire, aim approach. So...I'm definitely not putting down your idea...I like the idea of incorporating the petrified wood into the counter! In fact, I love the idea! If you're planning on pouring epoxy over the pieces, why would you need to tumble the pieces? Have you considered cleaning the pieces VERY thoroughly and leaving them in their natural state? Have you thought about doing a "test" piece...maybe a 1'x1' piece to see what it would look like? Just spouting thoughts... Most of the pieces have a coating on them that I’m guessing is limestone. The ones that don’t have that have a black coating. Underneath the coating they have a lot of reds, yellows, and browns. I’ve done some test runs mainly to see if they kept their wet look.
|
|
jhill5tx
off to a rocking start
Member since October 2021
Posts: 12
|
Post by jhill5tx on Oct 22, 2021 18:02:02 GMT -5
The 8” one turns at 40 rpm I haven’t checked speed on six inch. Guessing 50-60 range. I have 46 and 60 grit. Are you just wanting to round and shape ?(i.e. step 1 coarse grit) I tumble with 6 inch pipe barrels jhill5tx. 8 inch pipe barrels occasionally at ~40rpm. 50 to 60 rpm for the 6" is rather fast and really best for the coarse grit shaping. And add clay for a slurry thicker to a milk shake consistency for padding(at that high speed) and fill barrel 70%. And add rocks to maintain close to 70% as the rocks shrink just to be safe. Also, if all the pet wood is small(under 1.25 to 1.5 inches) the tumble will be much more gentle. I define 'heavy' rocks at 80 grams and heavier. Rough rule of thumb. If you are planning on larger pieces the clay slurry becomes more important to protect your rocks from impact damage. Especially at 50/60rpm. I really manage my clay thickened slurry carefully to milk shake consistency when running a 6" barrel at faster 80rpm. At those high speeds abrasives can be added say in half doses every 2 days to speed grind. You may have to pour some slurry off and add water when it gets too thick. Higher speeds means a faster tumble shaping but also requires protection by either using clay or 80% fill or lots of smalls. Take your pick. I prefer half that speed for 220-500-1000-polish steps. Finish steps are sensitive to impacts at such speeds. Especially polish. Like jasoninsd mentioned there may be no need to do 220-500-1000-polish steps if you are pouring epoxy over them. All this may seem complicated but it is not. I pop the cap and check the slurry thickness, pour off if too thick and add water, chunk a half dose of coarse grit in, close cap and start again. Takes a minute or two every 2 to 3 days. And do a total clean out every 7 to 10 days. Add fresh clay and a full charge of abrasive. good luck. PS Would like to see a photo of your tumbler. Thank you for the info! I used bentonite for my clay. I’m guessing that this is ok? That makes a lot of sense to thicken up the slurry. This is what I’ve done. Added rocks, clay, and two cups of 46 grit. I can also speed up or slow it down if need too. Y’all are right about maybe skipping out on latter steps. The epoxy makes the keep the wet look. Most pieces either have a limestone coating or a black coating. Underneath they’re really pretty. Lots of reds, yellows, browns and occasionally some blues. Anyway I’ve been picking the stuff up out of the creek in my backyard for 5 years or so. Needing to come up with project for it. I can say i did more with it besides hoarding it in 5 gallon buckets. it’s been running for 2 hours now. So hopefully get some beginners luck. Thank you John
|
|
jhill5tx
off to a rocking start
Member since October 2021
Posts: 12
|
Post by jhill5tx on Oct 22, 2021 18:06:33 GMT -5
jamesp - Excellent write-up with some very valuable information! Thanks for posting that! jhill5tx - Another thing to consider: If you have the ability to cut the petrified wood in half (width-wise) then you'll accomplish a couple things...you'll get twice the amount of coverage with the same amount of rock...and you'll also bring the weight of the entire counter down a bit. Also, having a "flat bottom" on each piece of petrified wood will allow them to sit nicer... Again...not my project...just interjecting food for thought. So how does one go about cutting these rocks in half? I like the idea of having a flat side. I was thinking of setting them on a layer of sand. To make it easier to get them to sit right. Thank you John
|
|
|
Post by jasoninsd on Oct 22, 2021 20:51:32 GMT -5
jamesp - Excellent write-up with some very valuable information! Thanks for posting that! jhill5tx - Another thing to consider: If you have the ability to cut the petrified wood in half (width-wise) then you'll accomplish a couple things...you'll get twice the amount of coverage with the same amount of rock...and you'll also bring the weight of the entire counter down a bit. Also, having a "flat bottom" on each piece of petrified wood will allow them to sit nicer... Again...not my project...just interjecting food for thought. So how does one go about cutting these rocks in half? I like the idea of having a flat side. I was thinking of setting them on a layer of sand. To make it easier to get them to sit right. Thank you John If you have access to a wet tile saw, it could be done that way. It depends on what size pieces of rough you have...if they're large you'd probably need a 10", but if they're under 3" you might be able to get away with using a 7" wet tile saw (which are pretty cheap - I mean inexpensive). I have a 10" wet tile saw. I'd just adjust the fence to accommodate the width of the piece...and I'd hold the rock while cutting. To get a more "precise" cut, you could glue the rocks to 2x4's so the cutting would be more stable. However, I wouldn't waste time with that as it doesn't matter if the cut gets "off" a little, as it will be on the bottom and will never be seen.
|
|
|
Post by Bob on Oct 25, 2021 10:36:02 GMT -5
I don't use different tumbling methods for it. But, it does require more trimming to get rid of portions with deep fractures. I usually have 2-3 pieces of it mixed in with every batch of whatever I'm tumbling.
|
|
Chris Sikk
having dreams about rocks
Member since September 2021
Posts: 73
|
Post by Chris Sikk on Oct 27, 2021 18:54:59 GMT -5
I will second jasoninsd on the wet tile saw. I saw one on clearance and wanted it so very bad after reading that people successfully use them, but I stopped myself because most of the pieces I find are no bigger than a kiwi. So I thought a wet tile saw would be overkill because I am not dealing with large stones. I would likely have more trouble finding a way to hold the rocks in place without hurting myself as I used a wet tile saw. Haha.
If your pieces are big enough, I say get the saw. I am buying small diamond cutting wheels for the Dremel to cut my petrified wood. The issue is that one wheel doesn't really last more than 3 rocks if I am actually cutting and not shaping. And it takes a fair amount of time. The tile saw would be quicker.
I hesitate to say this because it feels unsafe for smaller pieces, but I have seen Youtube videos of people doing larger pieces, like a stump, with an angle grinder.
|
|
|
Post by Bob on Nov 9, 2021 15:01:21 GMT -5
I used a wet tile saw, the 7" size, for a couple of years to great frustration. If only for the occasional trimming of something golf ball size or smaller, it might be okay. But when it comes to lemon-size or larger and a lot of it, it just led to problems. I was going through a new blade per month. Once a large rock held in the hand got to rocking or shaking even a tiny bit, an oscillation effect just seemed to get worse and worse and the blade would get out of round. Once out of round a tiny bit, then it got worse and worse and more dangerous to hold the rock.
After getting tired of this, I gave up and got a used 10" lapidary saw and refurbed it. Once you have used one of these, you never want to touch a small wet tile saw again. It was hard me me to decide whether to take a sledge hammer to it or give it to a friend. I gave it to a friend who will use it to cut tile. There is no power feed nor do I need one as I don't do any slabbing. All my sawing is freehand.
Just last night I cut a lot of pet wood on the saw. Some of it was 3-4" in dia and up to 9" long. This isn't the colorful variety from AZ with all the reds and oranges, but the dark brown/tan/black variety I find in OK/TX/KS/NM. Seldom is there a piece w/o some flaw that penetrates pretty deep or even all the way through. For instance, one large piece last night was very solid, but all the way through is one tiny layer--maybe only 1mm thick--that is porous. So, I had to chop the big piece into enough crosswise pieces that after I could then saw through that porous layer to get rid of it. Sometimes that porous layer goes right through the middle too which is frustrating.
So, all in all, until I got a lapidary saw, pet wood was difficult to deal with so I mostly let it pile up to deal with later. Now it's fun to have it in process. Apparently I've got a few pieces of palm that I didn't know about. Also one piece I suspect is mammoth ivory. And a few days ago I found a piece that I think is really a dinosaur bone which I've very excited about because of it's interesting pattern.
|
|
jhill5tx
off to a rocking start
Member since October 2021
Posts: 12
|
Post by jhill5tx on Nov 18, 2021 21:10:50 GMT -5
Are you just wanting to round and shape ?(i.e. step 1 coarse grit) I tumble with 6 inch pipe barrels jhill5tx . 8 inch pipe barrels occasionally at ~40rpm. 50 to 60 rpm for the 6" is rather fast and really best for the coarse grit shaping. And add clay for a slurry thicker to a milk shake consistency for padding(at that high speed) and fill barrel 70%. And add rocks to maintain close to 70% as the rocks shrink just to be safe. Also, if all the pet wood is small(under 1.25 to 1.5 inches) the tumble will be much more gentle. I define 'heavy' rocks at 80 grams and heavier. Rough rule of thumb. If you are planning on larger pieces the clay slurry becomes more important to protect your rocks from impact damage. Especially at 50/60rpm. I really manage my clay thickened slurry carefully to milk shake consistency when running a 6" barrel at faster 80rpm. At those high speeds abrasives can be added say in half doses every 2 days to speed grind. You may have to pour some slurry off and add water when it gets too thick. Higher speeds means a faster tumble shaping but also requires protection by either using clay or 80% fill or lots of smalls. Take your pick. I prefer half that speed for 220-500-1000-polish steps. Finish steps are sensitive to impacts at such speeds. Especially polish. Like jasoninsd mentioned there may be no need to do 220-500-1000-polish steps if you are pouring epoxy over them. All this may seem complicated but it is not. I pop the cap and check the slurry thickness, pour off if too thick and add water, chunk a half dose of coarse grit in, close cap and start again. Takes a minute or two every 2 to 3 days. And do a total clean out every 7 to 10 days. Add fresh clay and a full charge of abrasive. good luck. PS Would like to see a photo of your tumbler. Thank you for the info! I used bentonite for my clay. I’m guessing that this is ok? That makes a lot of sense to thicken up the slurry. This is what I’ve done. Added rocks, clay, and two cups of 46 grit. I can also speed up or slow it down if need too. Y’all are right about maybe skipping out on latter steps. The epoxy makes the keep the wet look. Most pieces either have a limestone coating or a black coating. Underneath they’re really pretty. Lots of reds, yellows, browns and occasionally some blues. Anyway I’ve been picking the stuff up out of the creek in my backyard for 5 years or so. Needing to come up with project for it. I can say i did more with it besides hoarding it in 5 gallon buckets. it’s been running for 2 hours now. So hopefully get some beginners luck. Thank you John Here’s a pic of my tumbler. insert code here
|
|
jhill5tx
off to a rocking start
Member since October 2021
Posts: 12
|
Post by jhill5tx on Nov 18, 2021 21:29:59 GMT -5
Thank you for the info! I used bentonite for my clay. I’m guessing that this is ok? That makes a lot of sense to thicken up the slurry. This is what I’ve done. Added rocks, clay, and two cups of 46 grit. I can also speed up or slow it down if need too. Y’all are right about maybe skipping out on latter steps. The epoxy makes the keep the wet look. Most pieces either have a limestone coating or a black coating. Underneath they’re really pretty. Lots of reds, yellows, browns and occasionally some blues. Anyway I’ve been picking the stuff up out of the creek in my backyard for 5 years or so. Needing to come up with project for it. I can say i did more with it besides hoarding it in 5 gallon buckets. it’s been running for 2 hours now. So hopefully get some beginners luck. Thank you John Here’s a pic of my tumbler. insert code here
|
|
quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,352
|
Post by quartz on Nov 18, 2021 23:23:44 GMT -5
I tried bentonite as a cushion, found it very hard to clean off the rock and barrel. Using corn starch now, much easier to work with and seems to do a good job of padding the process.
|
|
jimmie
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since August 2021
Posts: 233
|
Post by jimmie on Nov 19, 2021 10:02:18 GMT -5
Sounds like a great idea. I re-use my slurry from stage one. It’s a thick slurry right from the get go. Like James says, check and recharge is also a good thing. I’ve built lots of stuff using epoxy. Instead of sand set your stones in thickened epoxy. I use colloidal silica. Just mix it with epoxy till you get desired thickness. You can color it also. Don’t mix a lot at once, it will “ go off” heat up and harden. Sounds like a fun project.use bar top epoxy to fill in when done, gets a great shine!
|
|