hypodactylus
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2021
Posts: 477
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Post by hypodactylus on Nov 3, 2021 11:28:25 GMT -5
I have been entertained by a few posts (new and resurrected) relating to the process of finding/digging/mining/extracting of rock from seams or other deposits. It got me thinking about how people go about doing this process; digging up an entire hillside looking for loose pieces is one thing, but extracting useable chunks from a seam or large deposit is another.
I have some personal experience trying to get rock extracted from a seam while out rockhounding. Using a drilling/sledge hammer and chisels only seem to yield mostly smaller chunks and chips, unless there are workable pre-existing cracks. When the seam is solid, the hammer bounces off the chisels, the chisels dull quickly, and the rock hard (duh) seam just quietly laughs at me.
How do people extract rock from solid veins and deposits? How do you end up with nice sized chunks using hand tools?
Would other rockhounds be offended if someone showed up with a portable hammer drill to drill holes for feather wedges? Do people often use power tools for extraction?
Just curious to partake in the collective experience of those on this board; what is your experience?
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Post by jasoninsd on Nov 3, 2021 17:28:51 GMT -5
hypodactylus - This is a great topic! I'm curious to see what the experienced hounders chime in with. I go out to Teepee Canyon to mine for agates there...and mining the nodules out of the bedrock is definitely problematic...so I will be following this one closely. Thanks for bringing up this topic! 
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realrockhound
Cave Dweller 
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
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Post by realrockhound on Nov 3, 2021 21:54:11 GMT -5
When I stumble across new deposits, I always test the water with your general hand tools. After some digging, if I deem it worth my time to move some serious material, I’ll devise what game plan I need to extract material. Once determined, I bring in heavier equipment. If it’s on private land, then the backhoe is coming in. Outside of that, I’ll file a claim. Area plays a large factor. If it’s in the middle of nowhere, I’ll use gas powered tools, atv, winch, etc. If closer to areas it’ll draw attention, I’ll suffer with hand tools. Always clean up my mess. After one winter, you’d never know anyone was there. Sometimes you gotta crack a few eggs to make that omelette. Back in the day when logging was big, the old timers were turning up material left and right making road cuts. But now days, it’s becoming harder and harder to turn up new material. Especially with restrictions that are now put into play. Edit: This is actually a great opportunity show what can be extracted with a handy man jack and explain how it was done. So this is a piece of Maury mountain wood. It was straight up and down in the ground. The volcanic ash had it cemented it. Literally had to chisel down about 6 inches to a foot. After the fact, I strapped a chain around it and started to literally jack it out of the ground. Lightly tapping around the log with a sledge creating vibration to break it free as it made its way up. Eventually enough pressure will build and it will break off. Its around 3 1/2 feet and 11-12 in in diameter, Solid, no fracture. I actually have some material from the same area that has fire opal it the cracks.  |
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quartzilla
Cave Dweller
Member since April 2020
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Post by quartzilla on Nov 3, 2021 22:13:00 GMT -5
My experience with pegmatites/mirolitic cavities is to follow and exploit existing fractures. Sometimes these start pretty far from where your trying to get to. Most deposit of this type are friable around the pocket areas due to the mineralized solutions so the rock can actually be fractured or even rotten. I have very little experience with agate type deposits but I would guess using a crack hammer from farther away to generate cracks which could then be exploited with a series of gads or chisels. Take your time, impatience is your worst enemy when hard rock mining.
Try to get a copy of Sinkankas’s Gemstones: How And Where To Find Them. Some of the material is a little dated (purchasing dynamite from a hardware store?) but otherwise this book is worth it’s weight in gold when it come to prospecting. Anything by Sinkankas is actually a great and informative read!
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Post by knave on Nov 3, 2021 22:19:52 GMT -5
That is a nice chunk of Maury mountain!
And nice calf also teehee
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realrockhound
Cave Dweller
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
Member since June 2020
Posts: 4,459
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Post by realrockhound on Nov 3, 2021 22:30:38 GMT -5
That is a nice chunk of Maury mountain! And nice calf also teehee Thats my gf. She's actually a giant. So that tells you just how massive that log is haha. jk |
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Post by Rockoonz on Nov 3, 2021 23:24:19 GMT -5
First, if collecting on public land, find out how the local BLM or FS office interprets recreational mining rules. If you get caught with a gasoline concrete saw or jackhammer, or even surface collect in a place that is off limits, You will most likely be charged with a crime, and lose the rocks, equipment, and the vehicle you hauled them in with. And fill your dang holes at the end of the day, please. Unethical recreational mining has closed many hounding sites, and a growing group of people is reclaiming and cleaning up the sites to get back into the good graces of the land managers and just do what's right, be one of THOSE people.
If your goal is to free a seam, the seam is not what you chip away at. You remove the rock around it enough to free it. Same applies to anything you dig. If you whack at it with a hammer you will get fractured, less usable material.
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Post by greig on Nov 4, 2021 6:50:07 GMT -5
First, if collecting on public land, find out how the local BLM or FS office interprets recreational mining rules. If you get caught with a gasoline concrete saw or jackhammer, or even surface collect in a place that is off limits, You will most likely be charged with a crime, and lose the rocks, equipment, and the vehicle you hauled them in with. And fill your dang holes at the end of the day, please. Unethical recreational mining has closed many hounding sites, and a growing group of people is reclaiming and cleaning up the sites to get back into the good graces of the land managers and just do what's right, be one of THOSE people. If your goal is to free a seam, the seam is not what you chip away at. You remove the rock around it enough to free it. Same applies to anything you dig. If you whack at it with a hammer you will get fractured, less usable material. Well said. It's site and deposit dependent. In many places, only hand tools can be used, so you will be restricted to hammer and chisel. Other places overlook small handheld battery operated tools which can be used to drill holes for feather wedges and small saws. There are also materials which can be put into holes that will crack a rock as they dry/expand. Larger tools such as gas operated drills, saws, micro-blasters (or other methods that go boom) are usually restricted unless you are in a commercial quarry with permission. Hand tools generally result in less damage to crystals if used a short distance from the crystals. It drives me crazy to see someone chisel directly beside a nice crystal and destroy it. |
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hypodactylus
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2021
Posts: 477
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Post by hypodactylus on Nov 4, 2021 12:16:10 GMT -5
Thanks for all the responses! Good to know!
My personal experience with workable deposits is pretty limited. There is one location here in Utah where I have collected in the past and struggled to effectively extract anything of significant size with a hammer and chisel. The deposits are large, solid veins of chalcedony and you can't simply dig around them. It is BLM land and you have to hike a little bit up a little desert mountain to get to some of it.
I don't have any plans to go back any time soon, but I was inspired by other threads to consider my past processes.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Nov 4, 2021 21:13:25 GMT -5
When I stumble across new deposits, I always test the water with your general hand tools. After some digging, if I deem it worth my time to move some serious material, I’ll devise what game plan I need to extract material. Once determined, I bring in heavier equipment. If it’s on private land, then the backhoe is coming in. Outside of that, I’ll file a claim. Area plays a large factor. If it’s in the middle of nowhere, I’ll use gas powered tools, atv, winch, etc. If closer to areas it’ll draw attention, I’ll suffer with hand tools. Always clean up my mess. After one winter, you’d never know anyone was there. Sometimes you gotta crack a few eggs to make that omelette. Back in the day when logging was big, the old timers were turning up material left and right making road cuts. But now days, it’s becoming harder and harder to turn up new material. Especially with restrictions that are now put into play. Edit: This is actually a great opportunity show what can be extracted with a handy man jack and explain how it was done. So this is a piece of Maury mountain wood. It was straight up and down in the ground. The volcanic ash had it cemented it. Literally had to chisel down about 6 inches to a foot. After the fact, I strapped a chain around it and started to literally jack it out of the ground. Lightly tapping around the log with a sledge creating vibration to break it free as it made its way up. Eventually enough pressure will build and it will break off. Its around 3 1/2 feet and 11-12 in in diameter, Solid, no fracture. I actually have some material from the same area that has fire opal it the cracks. I must see this Maury Mountain material with the opal in it! Please? ? ? |
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Post by rockjunquie on Nov 4, 2021 22:24:43 GMT -5
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realrockhound
Cave Dweller
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
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Post by realrockhound on Nov 5, 2021 0:20:04 GMT -5
Do you have a specific deposit you’re curious about extraction from? Keep in mind, I only use heavier equipment in my private claims. But if you’ve found something and you’d like some tips on getting it out, I’d be more than happy to detail how to go about it.
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hypodactylus
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2021
Posts: 477
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Post by hypodactylus on Nov 5, 2021 11:22:38 GMT -5
Do you have a specific deposit you’re curious about extraction from? Keep in mind, I only use heavier equipment in my private claims. But if you’ve found something and you’d like some tips on getting it out, I’d be more than happy to detail how to go about it. Thanks for the offer! I don't have any current plans to go back; I probably have enough rock to keep my tumblers busy for a decade... 😀 I was more just trying to understand how other people do it so I can improve my process if I ever find myself in that position again; I'll keep this thread in mind if I do! |
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