malduin
starting to shine!
Member since June 2022
Posts: 29
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Post by malduin on Jun 28, 2022 22:20:13 GMT -5
I recently started tumbling beach stones (from Lake Ontario's south shore) with my small hobby tumbler. So most of my rocks are nature tumbled to start. That said, I just bought a Lot-O for a couple main reasons, one being the quick turn around time and also I sometimes hand carve worry stones and other shapes where the vibe is better for that as i understand it. The issue is my hobby tumbler, which I would just use for stage 1, with its small barrel does not have the capacity to feed the Lot-O. Any recommendations on a larger capacity rotary that would work well in for my needs? Perhaps a Lortone QT12, Thumler AR12, or Rebel 17 (would this be too big??)
Thanks in advance!
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Post by As I in does tries! on Jun 28, 2022 22:27:18 GMT -5
Greetings and Welcome from Scotland, yes you will need a minimum of a 12lb barrel with upto 20kg (44lb) of rock or larger and even then it still can't supply enough to keep the 4.5lb Loto constantly fed!
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Post by aDave on Jun 28, 2022 22:31:55 GMT -5
I recently started tumbling beach stones (from Lake Ontario's south shore) with my small hobby tumbler. So most of my rocks are nature tumbled to start. That said, I just bought a Lot-O for a couple main reasons, one being the quick turn around time and also I sometimes hand carve worry stones and other shapes where the vibe is better for that as i understand it. The issue is my hobby tumbler, which I would just use for stage 1, with its small barrel does not have the capacity to feed the Lot-O. Any recommendations on a larger capacity rotary that would work well in for my needs? Perhaps a Lortone QT12, Thumler AR12, or Rebel 17 (would this be too big??) Thanks in advance! Welcome to the forum. In my humble (biased) opinion, get a QT66. It theoretically has the same capacity as a QT12, but having two separate barrels is really nice. It affords you the ability to run two coarse batches with widely different hardness, and you can run one 6lb barrel at a time if you don't have enough material to fill a 12lb barrel. Sure, you're cleaning out two barrels at one time, but the 6lb loads go pretty quickly. You won't be able to fill a loto every week after a clean out, as you'd need a fair amount more capacity. But, it's still much better than you what you currently have. ETA: The one nice thing about running two barrels is you can separate your material as it progresses. Bear with me, as this is the way my mind works. Having two barrels allowed me to separate rocks in the coarse stage. One barrel would contain newly added rough and other material that had not progressed that well, and the second barrel contained material that was much farther along and was getting ready to place in the Loto. This made it easier for me to separate material as I knew one barrel contained material that was close to moving on while the other barrel contained newly added material. So, even though you are running both barrels in the coarse stage, one barrel should be farther along than the other. You might start your initial runs with rough, but things will slowly sort themselves out in this respect. Of course, depending on how things are running, you might have a bucket filled with rocks ready for the Loto, one barrel filled with material that is close, and the other barrel filled with new rough. You'll be able to figure it out.
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malduin
starting to shine!
Member since June 2022
Posts: 29
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Post by malduin on Jun 29, 2022 9:18:55 GMT -5
Those are some very good points you make regarding the QT66 as a choice. Makes a Lot-O sense!
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,095
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Post by stefan on Jun 29, 2022 16:26:45 GMT -5
Welcome from WNY! I love Lake Ontario! I don't have a vibe but I run a Thumlers AR12 and Model B (15 Lb) and they produce between 3 and and 5 Lbs of course ground rock every 2 weeks (I have been keeping track for 6 years now). With Lake tumbled staters I would think you could get away with a 12 to 15 Lb barrel. Of course you are starting to realize that one thing leads to another and you will end up with needing another vibe, then another rotary to feed that one, then another vibe for just polish, then a rotary to feed the rotaries that are feeding the vibe, then a vibe... well you get the idea.
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malduin
starting to shine!
Member since June 2022
Posts: 29
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Post by malduin on Jun 29, 2022 20:32:42 GMT -5
stefan , howdy neighbor, what part of western NY? I am located outside of Rochester. Thanks for the info. I have been thinking more about how best to optimize the time spent in stage 1. Assuming the rotary will be used almost exclusively for course prep for the vibe, why not go with a higher speed tumbler? In theory, that could shave off time in stage 1, electricity, and grit cost. I have read a number of threads on this idea but would prefer not to go about "modding" a tumbler unless it was super easy to do so. Do you know what RPMs your AR12 and model B run at? Also, aDave , I see your name come up in threads regarding this so would love to hear your thoughts on it. And since you suggested the QT66, any idea what RPM that runs at?
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CLErocks
spending too much on rocks
Member since October 2021
Posts: 342
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Post by CLErocks on Jun 29, 2022 20:42:06 GMT -5
I have 2 Lortone 33bs (3bs?) so, 4 3lb barrels feed my Lot-O. Seems to work out pretty good for me. Debating getting at 6 or 12lb lortone, just to do bigger stones. But…I do almost exclusively Lake Erie beach stones and rarely find anything big enough that I NEED the bigger tumbler. I think I just need an excuse to buy more equipment!! I should save my $$ for a cab machine or something!!!
Edit: bonus of 4 smaller barrels to one or two bigger ones is saving a few stones that aren’t ready to move forward, can fill a barrel quicker. Also, separating out stones I KNOW will tumble well vs ones I’m not so sure about, can save a batch from excessive scratches. Just my 2 cents.
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lucy
having dreams about rocks
Becoming obsessed with rocks
Member since June 2022
Posts: 52
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Post by lucy on Jun 29, 2022 21:17:05 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum! I've just begun tumbling myself, but I know there are a lot of people here who really know what they're talking about! I hope you find the best match for your needs. 🙂
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,095
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Post by stefan on Jun 30, 2022 17:15:20 GMT -5
I'm South of Buffalo!
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Post by As I in does tries! on Jun 30, 2022 20:59:08 GMT -5
The Lortone QT 12/66 runs at 20rpm for my 220V 50Hz model it does not matter whether you use 1x 12lb or 2x 6lb barrels, my Lortone C300 runs at 28rpm running 3x 12lb barrels 0.5hp 240V 50Hz. Each 6lb barrel holds just 5kg (11lb) of the heaviest rock I have (Tiger's Eye), whereas the 12lb barrel can hold up to more than double 20kg (44lb) of the same rock.
Instead of cleaning-out every week, why don't you clean-out every 5 days instead usually the grit has broken down at least twice already, I use 0.480Kg (1.05lb) fixed 80 grit in each 12lb barrel.
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jimmie
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since August 2021
Posts: 233
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Post by jimmie on Jul 1, 2022 8:07:00 GMT -5
Buffalo and Rochester, I’m out on eastern Long Island, every nut in the world is out here.
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,095
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Post by stefan on Jul 1, 2022 17:16:49 GMT -5
Yeah I think we are a little luckier in the Western part of the state.
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Post by aDave on Jul 1, 2022 20:11:46 GMT -5
I have been thinking more about how best to optimize the time spent in stage 1. Assuming the rotary will be used almost exclusively for course prep for the vibe, why not go with a higher speed tumbler? In theory, that could shave off time in stage 1, electricity, and grit cost. I have read a number of threads on this idea but would prefer not to go about "modding" a tumbler unless it was super easy to do so. Do you know what RPMs your AR12 and model B run at? Also, aDave , I see your name come up in threads regarding this so would love to hear your thoughts on it. And since you suggested the QT66, any idea what RPM that runs at? jamesp is somewhat of a fan of speed, so he might have some input for you. But, be forewarned that his tumblers and barrels are home built, and he has spent a lot of time perfecting what he has. I, on the other hand have been quite satisfied with the speed of a "stock" QT66. Based upon what I found when opening up my barrels in the coarse stage after seven days, I probably could have cleaned out at five, instead. I just kind of got used to a seven day routine, so that's what I pretty much stuck with. I've had my tumblers shut down for awhile, but I seem to recall that my QT66 was right about 30 rpm. In my eyes, that speed was fine for me as there was a balance between efficiency in the first stage grind and not beating up rocks to where imperfections like bruising and such were formed.
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malduin
starting to shine!
Member since June 2022
Posts: 29
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Post by malduin on Jul 1, 2022 21:47:33 GMT -5
Thanks for the info on the QT66 and yeah, I did read some of jamesp's posts on the subject. But like you said, he went the homemade route. There seems to be very few off the shelf options that come close to his speeds for stage 1. A couple of the really big ones run somewhat fast like the extreme rebel 17 and the thumler model b high speed but those are way bigger than what I want to start with. That leaves the Nat Geo speed demon tumblers, lol ....
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Post by As I in does tries! on Jul 2, 2022 7:55:59 GMT -5
Greetings if you want a Lortone be aware there is at least two weeks delay in manufacturing, True-square Metal Products (Thumbers) have significant delays in manufacturing too, the National Geographic Speed Demon is just a 3lb tumbler, your best bet is the Rebel, however if you are prepared to spend a lot extra either a Covington Engineering rotary tumblers up to 40lb or Diamond Pacific rotary tumblers between 25lb - 75lb, most tumblers can be sourced either direct from the manufacturer or via resellers such as The Rock Shed or Kingsley North or a diy approach like JamesP for the machine and or barrels. Personally I would diy the machine and buy barrels, but the choice is yours!
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malduin
starting to shine!
Member since June 2022
Posts: 29
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Post by malduin on Jul 4, 2022 13:30:38 GMT -5
aDave, I took some notes regarding some messages that jamesp wrote where he talked about the maximixing the number of inches your barrel travels per minute. One of his "ideal for fast grinding" setups (DIY built) was a 6 inch barrel rotating at 85 RPM : 3.14 x 6 x 85 RPM = 1601 inches per minute I can match that with a 3 pound off the shelf nat geo pro which has a nicely designed wide diameter barrel at 6.5 inches and here is what it runs at fill load : 3.14 x 6.5 x 84 RPM = 1714 inches per minute That would get me pretty close to his ideal setup and "should" get me down to 3 day stage 1 times which is hugely significant as most of your time is spent in that stage. As I in does tries!, I agree that the rebel 17 is another very strong option and maybe one for further down the road (still a newbie here). From some research here are the numbers on the 17 which is a 9 inch barrel running at 40 RPMs : 3.14 x 9 x 40 RPM = 1130 inches per minute (still a fast grinder here!)
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Jul 4, 2022 14:10:29 GMT -5
malduin That speed is suggested for step 1 shaping. Better to go much slower in steps 2-3-4-5-polish. For most step 1 takes 2 to 6 times longer than the finishing steps added together. Step 1 is the slow part of rotary tumbling. For 3 to 4 inch diameter barrels higher speeds are acceptable, for large diameter barrels slow rotation is better. It is not just the surface speed that is important, but the diameter that affects the tumble. A 10 foot diameter barrel travelling at 1200 inches per minute would certainly bang rocks terribly. slurry thickness is also an important factor for cushioning at higher rolling speeds. Welcome to RTH.
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malduin
starting to shine!
Member since June 2022
Posts: 29
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Post by malduin on Jul 4, 2022 17:31:01 GMT -5
Thanks for the info jamesp! I am only going to rotary tumble for stage 1 anyway and then do the remaining steps in the super finnicky Lot-O tumbler. I will keep an eye out for any bruising of rocks in my super fast Nat Geo Pro. I am thinking of cushioning with ceramic media and running it fuller than normal perhaps?
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Jul 4, 2022 21:34:29 GMT -5
Thanks for the info jamesp! I am only going to rotary tumble for stage 1 anyway and then do the remaining steps in the super finnicky Lot-O tumbler. I will keep an eye out for any bruising of rocks in my super fast Nat Geo Pro. I am thinking of cushioning with ceramic media and running it fuller than normal perhaps? sounds great Lot-O + ceramics
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