markb
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Member since May 2022
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Post by markb on Jul 7, 2022 17:23:09 GMT -5
I finally got my saw up and running last night and filled with water to the specs listed. On my 1st cut attempt the sparks flew. So I added more water to the tank bringing the level up to the top of the kerf on the blade, but still some sparking.
How far down into the water should the blade be to avoid sparking? The manual says water should be dripping down from the blade cover, which it is, so much in fact that it’s being thrown around a bit on other parts of the saw I don’t want it on, like the motor housing.
I was thinking maybe to use a water additive to help break the water tension. For those of you who use such a product, what is it and where did you buy it from? I see lots of options out there w/ all sorts of liquids and powders.
Thanks!
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Post by Peruano on Jul 7, 2022 17:56:41 GMT -5
Don't try to prevent sparks with water. Perhaps you need to feed more slowly but sparks will be produced with many materials.
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markb
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2022
Posts: 472
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Post by markb on Jul 7, 2022 18:13:25 GMT -5
Don't try to prevent sparks with water. Perhaps you need to feed more slowly but sparks will be produced with many materials. Well I didn’t feed at all really, just touched the spinning blade to jasper. So I guess you are saying 1/8” water coverage is enough then. |
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Jul 7, 2022 18:59:03 GMT -5
Oil is usually recommended for saws 10" and up. I've heard people say they use water in a 10", but don't know anyone personally who does.
I see their website talks about using water - and that the saw turns at 1725 RPM. Not variable speed if I'm reading it right. That would put you at the top end of the RPM range for a MK-301 and the bottom of the range for the MK-303 blades. If you got your blades with the saw they probably say 1725, if anything, right?
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markb
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Post by markb on Jul 7, 2022 19:09:51 GMT -5
Oil is usually recommended for saws 10" and up. I've heard people say they use water in a 10", but don't know anyone personally who does.
I see their website talks about using water - and that the saw turns at 1725 RPM. Not variable speed if I'm reading it right. That would put you at the top end of the RPM range for a MK-301 and the bottom of the range for the MK-303 blades. If you got your blades with the saw they probably say 1725, if anything, right?
The saw came with two blades, a thick notch diamond blade 10” for cutting and slabbing agates, jades and geodes. The second is a thin center diamond blade 10” for cutting and slabbing quartz, topaz, glass and fine agates. I’m using the thick notched diamond blade and the box says maximum rpm is 1700. Actually, both blades are listed at that. I would find it hard to believe that their website would say 1725, if they sent two blades limited to 1700. I did finally find some references on this site from over 15 years ago that talk about sparking when you cut some materials. |
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goldfinder
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Member since December 2020
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Post by goldfinder on Jul 7, 2022 22:14:15 GMT -5
I've heard that a blade depth of around 1/4 to 3/8" is a good rule of thumb. I run a Lortone TS-10 with water and a sintered diamond blade (MK-303) so a pretty similar setup as you.
I'd definitely recommend running a water additive. I've been using the Kingsley North Gem Lube as the additive and it's been working pretty well. It's supposed to be mixed 1:10 with water. It's kind of pricey so I had been sort of skimping on it and reusing the water after settling but just killed my last MK-303 but I had done a ton of sawing with it so I can't complain. I think if I kept using the proper 1:10 ratio the blade would have lasted a lot longer.
Most the saw coolant additives are quite pricey but I assume they are relatively simple ingredients. I've looked for DIY recipes but to no avail. Hopefully others will chime in with their experience with other water additives.
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markb
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2022
Posts: 472
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Post by markb on Jul 7, 2022 22:45:58 GMT -5
I've heard that a blade depth of around 1/4 to 3/8" is a good rule of thumb. I run a Lortone TS-10 with water and a sintered diamond blade (MK-303) so a pretty similar setup as you. I'd definitely recommend running a water additive. I've been using the Kingsley North Gem Lube as the additive and it's been working pretty well. It's supposed to be mixed 1:10 with water. It's kind of pricey so I had been sort of skimping on it and reusing the water after settling but just killed my last MK-303 but I had done a ton of sawing with it so I can't complain. I think if I kept using the proper 1:10 ratio the blade would have lasted a lot longer. Most the saw coolant additives are quite pricey but I assume they are relatively simple ingredients. I've looked for DIY recipes but to no avail. Hopefully others will chime in with their experience with other water additives. I found a past discussion about this topic with some suggestions in the link shown below. Don’t know if they still apply or not, though. Water additive solutions |
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Post by jasoninsd on Jul 8, 2022 1:22:55 GMT -5
I've heard that a blade depth of around 1/4 to 3/8" is a good rule of thumb. I run a Lortone TS-10 with water and a sintered diamond blade (MK-303) so a pretty similar setup as you. I'd definitely recommend running a water additive. I've been using the Kingsley North Gem Lube as the additive and it's been working pretty well. It's supposed to be mixed 1:10 with water. It's kind of pricey so I had been sort of skimping on it and reusing the water after settling but just killed my last MK-303 but I had done a ton of sawing with it so I can't complain. I think if I kept using the proper 1:10 ratio the blade would have lasted a lot longer. Most the saw coolant additives are quite pricey but I assume they are relatively simple ingredients. I've looked for DIY recipes but to no avail. Hopefully others will chime in with their experience with other water additives. I found a past discussion about this topic with some suggestions in the link shown below. Don’t know if they still apply or not, though. Water additive solutionsI'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong...but I swear I remember reading somewhere on here - no clue where - that people were using a couple drops of Dawn dish soap in the water to act as a lubricant. Literally a couple drops...not enough to cause bubbles... |
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markb
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2022
Posts: 472
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Post by markb on Jul 8, 2022 2:28:01 GMT -5
I found a past discussion about this topic with some suggestions in the link shown below. Don’t know if they still apply or not, though. Water additive solutionsI'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong...but I swear I remember reading somewhere on here - no clue where - that people were using a couple drops of Dawn dish soap in the water to act as a lubricant. Literally a couple drops...not enough to cause bubbles... I've read so MANY opinions at this point, I'm getting more confused by the minute! Here's another LINK with a lot of information and opinions on what folks are using for water additives. And even more opinions HERE and HERE. The advice I'd like to believe most because it is the cheapest additive says, "Actually is it one glug (2 oz.) of liquid Cascade per gallon of water. The soap breaks the surface tension of the water and makes it appear wetter. Think surfactant. It serves as a lubricant, coolant, as well as a blade cleaner." And then this one! (claims to have been using Dawn with tile saw for years). At this point I'm thinking maybe I'll take a shot of whiskey and just ignore the sparks!  |
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Post by rmf on Jul 8, 2022 4:25:04 GMT -5
I have tried water with an additive in the past and was not happy. It was probably not a good additive for my use case because it bound with chrysocolla and made a gum that caused problems. Been a long time ago when such were new to the market. So I have used oil ever since. Even with oil you will see flashes if you watch. Oil/water have two functions cooling and lubrication. Water is better at cooling and cheap and oil is better with the lubrication. Oil also protects the saw from rust that water will not unless the saw is made from stainless/plastic or Aluminum. Many older saws are plane old steel. You should see flashes of light not a spray of sparks like holding metal to a grindstone. You need to have enough coolant in a saw that when it is working, the oil left in the tank covers the area where the diamonds are on the blade and any brazing used to hold them on. Usually not more that about 3/8" but this could vary from blade to blade.
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Post by jasoninsd on Jul 8, 2022 5:06:57 GMT -5
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong...but I swear I remember reading somewhere on here - no clue where - that people were using a couple drops of Dawn dish soap in the water to act as a lubricant. Literally a couple drops...not enough to cause bubbles... I've read so MANY opinions at this point, I'm getting more confused by the minute! Here's another LINK with a lot of information and opinions on what folks are using for water additives. And even more opinions HERE and HERE. The advice I'd like to believe most because it is the cheapest additive says, "Actually is it one glug (2 oz.) of liquid Cascade per gallon of water. The soap breaks the surface tension of the water and makes it appear wetter. Think surfactant. It serves as a lubricant, coolant, as well as a blade cleaner." And then this one! (claims to have been using Dawn with tile saw for years). At this point I'm thinking maybe I'll take a shot of whiskey and just ignore the sparks!  This hobby can be SO much fun...right?!? I think this whole endeavor takes enough out of the wallet. I think I'd be trying the "cheapest" route to start and see if it makes a difference...especially since the Dawn recommendation came from Tony (catmandewe). He deals a lot in/with equipment (like a LOT of saws) - so I believe he'd be one to listen to and take advice from.  Now you can have the shot of whiskey as a celebratory thing...and not to drown sorrows! LOL |
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Post by liveoak on Jul 8, 2022 6:40:53 GMT -5
When I first got my 10" MK I researched additives & found lots of opinions, as you say.
I decided to play it safe and ordered the Gem Lube from KN.
I figured better safe then sorry. The Gem Lube isn't terribly smelly & my saw & blade are not rusty- so I think it's a good thing.
Another consideration if you don't use any additive, will you have to drain & re-fill the saw each time & how difficult is that ? It just doesn't sounds good to leave the blade sitting in water for extended time .
Patty
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Jul 8, 2022 9:03:43 GMT -5
Quoted from their webpage:
The housing is made of unbreakable, cross-linked polyethylene that makes it rustproof and easy to clean. Installed in each slab saw is a 1/3 hp motor to provide plenty of strength for large cuts, delivering a speed of 1,725 rpm. The coolant reservoir is built right into the base of the machine and can hold up to 224 ounces (7 quarts) of water.
End quote.
Would be a messy sucker with oil, anyway... .
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markb
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2022
Posts: 472
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Post by markb on Jul 8, 2022 10:19:52 GMT -5
When I first got my 10" MK I researched additives & found lots of opinions, as you say.
I decided to play it safe and ordered the Gem Lube from KN.
I figured better safe then sorry. The Gem Lube isn't terribly smelly & my saw & blade are not rusty- so I think it's a good thing.
Another consideration if you don't use any additive, will you have to drain & re-fill the saw each time & how difficult is that ? It just doesn't sounds good to leave the blade sitting in water for extended time .
Patty
, I agree it would be a pain to drain it each time and was talking to a rep at Hi-Tech Diamond who said she just dips out enough water to lower the level below the bottom of the blade, then drys off the blade. That way you don't always have to drain the saw each time. I thought that was a pretty good idea and that's what I'm doing now too. When the water does get too gunky, then I'll replace it. So the only reason I'd need an additive is to break the water tension. Mark |
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markb
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2022
Posts: 472
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Post by markb on Jul 8, 2022 10:26:36 GMT -5
Quoted from their webpage:
The housing is made of unbreakable, cross-linked polyethylene that makes it rustproof and easy to clean. Installed in each slab saw is a 1/3 hp motor to provide plenty of strength for large cuts, delivering a speed of 1,725 rpm. The coolant reservoir is built right into the base of the machine and can hold up to 224 ounces (7 quarts) of water.
End quote.
Would be a messy sucker with oil, anyway... .
, Oh, I believe you, but I guess that speed must be okay then for the blades they've included, huh? Seems confusing. Since there was no hood and I'm working in my garage, I thought oil would be a big mess too!! Mark |
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markb
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Member since May 2022
Posts: 472
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Post by markb on Jul 8, 2022 10:36:08 GMT -5
I've read so MANY opinions at this point, I'm getting more confused by the minute! Here's another LINK with a lot of information and opinions on what folks are using for water additives. And even more opinions HERE and HERE. The advice I'd like to believe most because it is the cheapest additive says, "Actually is it one glug (2 oz.) of liquid Cascade per gallon of water. The soap breaks the surface tension of the water and makes it appear wetter. Think surfactant. It serves as a lubricant, coolant, as well as a blade cleaner." And then this one! (claims to have been using Dawn with tile saw for years). At this point I'm thinking maybe I'll take a shot of whiskey and just ignore the sparks!  This hobby can be SO much fun...right?!? I think this whole endeavor takes enough out of the wallet. I think I'd be trying the "cheapest" route to start and see if it makes a difference...especially since the Dawn recommendation came from Tony (catmandewe). He deals a lot in/with equipment (like a LOT of saws) - so I believe he'd be one to listen to and take advice from. Now you can have the shot of whiskey as a celebratory thing...and not to drown sorrows! LOL , since I'm not familiar with catmandewe, I'll take your/his word for it and give it a try. Now, will you be a good friend and send me some money to help with my turmoil ! If it would help you can set up a monthly payment plan like some of the YouTuber's do. har! Mark |
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Post by liveoak on Jul 8, 2022 10:49:04 GMT -5
Sounds like you got it in hand, markb- drain it a little & keep an eye on the gunk :-) Patty |
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Post by jasoninsd on Jul 8, 2022 10:51:56 GMT -5
This hobby can be SO much fun...right?!? I think this whole endeavor takes enough out of the wallet. I think I'd be trying the "cheapest" route to start and see if it makes a difference...especially since the Dawn recommendation came from Tony (catmandewe). He deals a lot in/with equipment (like a LOT of saws) - so I believe he'd be one to listen to and take advice from. Now you can have the shot of whiskey as a celebratory thing...and not to drown sorrows! LOL , since I'm not familiar with catmandewe, I'll take your/his word for it and give it a try. Now, will you be a good friend and send me some money to help with my turmoil ! If it would help you can set up a monthly payment plan like some of the YouTuber's do. har! Mark Tony's a longtime forum member...and many forum members have gotten their saws from him. I can't vouch for him personally...but I'm betting a lot of members on here would. As far as the money thing goes...well...  |
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markb
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Member since May 2022
Posts: 472
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Post by markb on Jul 8, 2022 14:49:38 GMT -5
CONCLUSION: 1. I put on headphones and listened to a couple favorite songs of Pink Floyd "Dark Side of the Moon". 2. Next, I shot a quick squirt of Dawn into the saw tank and refilled the water to the recommended level. 3. I ignored the first couple of sparks and completed my first cuts of pet wood. Jasper is next and anything else I can get my hands on! Note: there are some light suds on my table top after the cut, but it doens't hinder anything. When I flush the tank it will all be a distant memory! Happy Friday everyone!! Mark |
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jasperfanatic
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2019
Posts: 463
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Post by jasperfanatic on Jul 8, 2022 18:04:23 GMT -5
CONCLUSION: 1. I put on headphones and listened to a couple favorite songs of Pink Floyd "Dark Side of the Moon". 2. Next, I shot a quick squirt of Dawn into the saw tank and refilled the water to the recommended level. 3. I ignored the first couple of sparks and completed my first cuts of pet wood. Jasper is next and anything else I can get my hands on! Note: there are some light suds on my table top after the cut, but it doens't hinder anything. When I flush the tank it will all be a distant memory! Happy Friday everyone!! Mark For what it's worth, I have the same saw and I've been running straight water the entire 3 years I've had it, no additives. I have the blade in the water pool just under about 1/4" and I use the MK-30X blades pretty much exclusively and the only things I've found that reduce blade life beyond normal are: 1. My impatience, for some reason when I try to Hulk a larger rock through at lightspeed the blade doesn't seem to like that. 2. Not draining the tank after use and letting the submerged part start rust on the blade. 3. Cutting rocks that are clearly much too large for a 10" blade. I suppose you could condense all three down to: 1. My stupidity |
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