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Post by vegasjames on Apr 4, 2024 19:18:10 GMT -5
Yes. there are a lot of colorful and unusual chalcedonies here in Southern Nevada several hours from Las Vegas.
Lots of opal in the area as well, which is the precursor for chalcedony. Is finding opal a "tell" for you for finding the chalcedony? No, chalcedonies are way more common than the opals as most the collecting is on the surface where the opals have had plenty of time to dehydrate and crystallize in to chalcedonies.
Most the opal I find is stuff that got washed out of the ground from floods and so has not been exposed for a long time. Although, if there is opal, chalcedony is generally also nearby.
Although, I would look at it the other way with the presence of chalcedony being a good indicator for possible opal especially if the area has springs or a high water table, either of which can slow the conversion of opal to chalcedony. For example, there is a spot close to here where chalcedony is pretty common as are springs. I believe it is highly likely that the tufa deposits in the area will contain opal, especially since the area is also associated with sandstone that can be a silica source for opals. It would be really hard digging though to find out. I have found some low grade fire agate, which being a chalcedony was once opal, in one of the tufa deposits on the far side of the mountain. So, that wold be a great place to dig, but there is no road to the spot and it is a bit of a hike to be carrying digging tools, so I have followed the vein in yet.
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 4, 2024 19:06:55 GMT -5
Welcome from Southern Nevada.
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 4, 2024 19:05:53 GMT -5
vegasjames my friend who manages the claims and paperwork for Johns literal scores of claims hasn't seen the rule loophole that allows sales without a claim. Not saying something doesn't exist, but since anyone who might try to take advantage of it is going to need that rule, can you point me to it? There are some rules specifically for minerals and metals, but applying them to materials that can be ores that you have no intention of processing as ores is not going to fly, even with a friendly BLM manager. Don't have an exact citing, but part of it would fall under the prudent man rule. For example, if you have a prospect for example you have to prove what you are mining is valuable enough to file for a valid claim. How can you do that without selling the material to prove value?
And again, I asked the BLM twice to clarify is a mining claim was required to mine and both times they clearly said no. That the claim is not required, the claim merely gives exclusive rights to what is being mined. Is there any law that says you cannot sell what you mine? Not that I ever heard of.
Each BLM has their own rules, so maybe this does not apply in all States. I am just going by what I was told more than once by our local BLM office.
And not everything mined is ore, and not all ores are processed. Many minerals are sold as collectors specimens, or simply cut for use such as turquoise that is not processed for its metals.
How about all the obsidian on the market that was dug from popular public dig spots for one?
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 4, 2024 18:29:39 GMT -5
Welcome from Southern Nevada.
There is some purple agate somewhere down there by Lake Havasu. Never looked for it there, so do not know the exact location.
There was also some popular spot on the other side of the river, but cannot recall the name. Rarely go down that way.
Burro Creek and Oatman areas are both great for collecting. For Burro Creek with your vehicle I would stick to the river bed by the campground. For Oatman all around the outskirts.
Kokoweef area by Mountain Pass, Southern California has all sorts of stuff.
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 4, 2024 6:48:03 GMT -5
Looks almost like it's moldy! Very neat, thank you for sharing. Did you collect it yourself, vegasjames ? Yes. there are a lot of colorful and unusual chalcedonies here in Southern Nevada several hours from Las Vegas.
Lots of opal in the area as well, which is the precursor for chalcedony.
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 4, 2024 6:39:22 GMT -5
Yes, I am aware that a claim makes it visible to others. The mine could be listed for copper ore or copper minerals instead of turquoise though, which would make it less interesting to high graders. And it is not an easy spot to reach anyway. The road is not passable except by maybe an ATV, and therefore it is a steep hike up and back with any digging tools and what is mined. One other thing I was told by BLM and was confirmed twice is that a claim is not required for mining. The claim simply gives exclusive rights, just like a patent for an invention. Therefore, according to what they are saying, a claim is not required to sell the material either. In fact, in order to get a claim, you must first prove there is something there valuable enough that the prudent man could make a profit. In order to prove that, material would have to be sold to prove there is a market and the value. Thus "exploratory mining", such as prospects that i done without a claim and the material being legally sold proving value and marketability.
BLM rules say "personal use only" when it comes to unclaimed public land. I have heard lots of variations on a theme of supposed loopholes that allow for sales to fit into that description, but also interpretations as strict as to say it's a crime to have an estate sale of the stuff granddad collected 50 years ago. If I bought some of it would that also be a problem if I sell it? Never underestimate the potential in public servants. A recent former member here publicly attacked a rock club for not grilling all their show vendors when he discovered one sold material collected on a public site. He may still visit, looking for material for his next attack video. Be careful. Our club up north has 2 thunderegg claims, value is pretty relative since maybe one in 5 isn't a mudball. They are very basic gemstone claims, costs very little to keep them, but hand tool mining only. "Personal use" applies to rock hounding, not mining. Exploratory mining is still mining.
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 3, 2024 16:17:07 GMT -5
vegasjames good thing you didn't claim it, the claim makes the site visible to everybody who knows where to look. On the other side of the coin, if you want to "legalize" what you collect there so it can be sold, you need the claim. The BLM has a lot of turn over on who manages their local offices, you might ask the same question to the next guy and get a different answer. The giant rare earth pit proposed for the NV/OR border seems like the total opposite of how it goes for us little people, my friend with some claims in that area has had some "offer you can't refuse" messages sent his way by some of the players in that game. For once I'm thankful for the tree huggers and others banding together to try to stop that one, an unusual collection of allies. I have another friend in the Portland club who has been going to all the BLM meetings for years and has been able to befriend many who we would call opposition and educate them on the difference between the small operations and the corporations. She probably deserves some of the credit for this alliance. Yes, I am aware that a claim makes it visible to others. The mine could be listed for copper ore or copper minerals instead of turquoise though, which would make it less interesting to high graders. And it is not an easy spot to reach anyway. The road is not passable except by maybe an ATV, and therefore it is a steep hike up and back with any digging tools and what is mined.
One other thing I was told by BLM and was confirmed twice is that a claim is not required for mining. The claim simply gives exclusive rights, just like a patent for an invention. Therefore, according to what they are saying, a claim is not required to sell the material either. In fact, in order to get a claim, you must first prove there is something there valuable enough that the prudent man could make a profit. In order to prove that, material would have to be sold to prove there is a market and the value. Thus "exploratory mining", such as prospects that i done without a claim and the material being legally sold proving value and marketability.
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 3, 2024 9:10:06 GMT -5
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 3, 2024 9:05:06 GMT -5
Hefty, go back and watch the video. How much material does he have to grind away, which is a lot more work compared to cutting a round form to begin with. Secondly, if cutting squares, all that material being ground away could potentially be used to make smaller beads. rather than ground away. In your scenario, you are assuming all beads are the same exact size. If this were the case, then your explanation about material waste, but not time waste would make sense. Not all beads have to be the same size though, and areas he is grinding away could potentially be used to make other size beads instead of grinding the material away. especially for material that is very expensive. Since you like graphics, I pulled these up as examples. In this first one, the red area that would normally be ground away with his process, which could be used to make a smaller bead. And these show how circles of different sizes can be cut out of a square with less waste that would be otherwise ground away, which can instead be used to make varying sized beads. The more that has to be ground away is also just more wear on the wheels. Again, cutting cylinders to begin with saves time as the lathe again will self center the central hole, and does not require near as much time removing material. If you have ever used a lathe, think of it this way. If you take a piece of rough wood, it is not going to be perfectly round. So how do you get the exact center to turn it? Answer, you can't. Instead, you get roughly in the center to put the spurs. As you turn the wood, the part of the wood that is furthest from the center is removed first during the lathing process. The result as you continue is that the spur automatically becomes centered. Same applies to stone if using a lathe to make stone beads.
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 3, 2024 8:18:03 GMT -5
Welcome Dan from Southern Nevada.
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 3, 2024 8:16:53 GMT -5
A lot of people started claiming materials found on public land a few years ago, watched the TV shows and thought it was easy money. Most of those claims have either been abandoned or are just being operated as hobby claims. Turns out the cost to truly operate commercially is a lot more than the claim fees. If you want to dig with hand tools a claim is relatively inexpensive, of course filing it is an invitation to every thief who watches the BLM and FS websites, but that's a different story. If you want to really dig with tractors and stuff, there are other permits, bonds, and reclamation plans to deal with, my friends who do it have literally hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in some high risk operations. If they gear up for a new mining season and the seam runs out after a few chunks, gone forever, they still are obligated to return the site to "original condition", generally a lot nicer than they found it. And if some government agency or a chinese company that wants to dig a huge ugly lithium pit decides you can't mine it anymore, all is gone. They have even prevented miners from doing the reclamation, then kept their bond because they didn't do what they were not allowed to do. Yes, I looked in to getting a claim on an old abandoned mine where I get the naturally hard turquoise. Talked with BLM who first told me I was not responsible for the reclamation on the pre-existing work. Then they later changed that to I was responsible for that reclamation when I asked again to confirm. That alone could have been at least a million dollars. Then they said I had to pay a mine inspection fee, a mining safety course, then if I wanted to work on the road to the mine there would be permits and fees for that. It would cost more just to get started than I could ever make.
I feel BLM does this more to block mining by small operations. They have put some long held family claims out of business here in Nevada by hitting them suddenly with massive, ridiculous reclamation fees.
There is also a case here in Nevada where someone found rare earth metals on his claim and the BLM came in an immediately shut him down. The only active rare earth mine in the U.S. is just over the Stateline in California and is owned by the Chinese.
All these National Monuments they are forming and expanding are not protecting anything either. If you check the maps they go off every which direction encompassing every old mine out there so they cannot be reopened. Mojave National Preserve in California, which was expanded fairly recently and the Avi Kwa Ame (Spirit Mountain) National Monument here in Southern Nevada are great examples. Neither were formed to really protect any plant or animal, they just encompass all the old mines in these areas.
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 2, 2024 16:32:13 GMT -5
Seems like starting with a hole saw would be a lot faster and easier and would create a lot less waste. Then finish them off with a lathe instead. Hole saw could probably work for the initial tube shape, but then you have to find dead center to drill the hole, vice versa if you drill the hole first you'd have to line up the hole saw perfectly. And if it's an elongated bead, that'd be a 1-3" deep hole with the hole saw, that'd take some time. He does use a lathe and diamond files/burs for finishing steps, the jig is just to hold a steady angle against the wheel when making the cone profile. His technique is to drill the hole first, then spin the bead on a spindle. The jig's purpose is to hold the spindle at a fixed distance and angle, so you can get perfect symmetry when you flip the bead. Not sure you could get that precision with a lathe and hand tools, unless you had some other jig. If using a lathe for the second part then you would not have to line up perfectly with the hole. Just get close since the lathe is going to remove the excess material, which would center the hole automatically. Just like if you took a square of wood to a lathe. Even if you were slightly off from center on the wood, as you round the wood, the round would become an equal distance from the center when the wood is rounded.
Therefore, the hole could be drilled, then a hole saw slightly larger than the intended bead size used to cut the preform, then when lathed, the drilled hole will automatically be centered when the bead is lathed.
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 2, 2024 16:25:11 GMT -5
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 2, 2024 16:23:07 GMT -5
I'm really unsure as to what this specimen is. It was reported to have been smelted and given to a friend who provided roadside assistance to the gifter. It was reportely poured in a heart shape and apparently has been sliced in half to expose a myriad of crystall inside. It is spectacularly colorful in direct sunlight and when moved relative to a light source. My read is that berylium is toxic to handle and breath and thus I'm unsure why anyone would make a decorative piece of it. It is dense, primarily gold in color similar to pyrite, and going to remain wrapped in plastic until I find out more about it. 20240327_100904 by Thomas Fritts, on Flickr Bismuth? Yes, bismuth is a low melting point metal. The giveaway that this is bismuth are the squarish crystal shapes. Oxidation of the surface will form various bright colors.
You can make these crystals from Pepto Bismol, which is a bismuth aspirin compound, but it is much easier to just buy the metal and melt it in an old pan.
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 2, 2024 15:28:50 GMT -5
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 2, 2024 15:22:38 GMT -5
Bismuth crystal. Has a very low melting point, and so these crystals can be made using your stove top.
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 2, 2024 15:21:27 GMT -5
Seems like starting with a hole saw would be a lot faster and easier and would create a lot less waste.
Then finish them off with a lathe instead.
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 2, 2024 3:04:55 GMT -5
Welcome from Southern Nevada.
I have tried the corn cob method in a vibe tumbler. I got the crushed corn cob from a feed store and added some polish. Cannot tell you how it worked though as the cabachons I was polishing are still in the vibe covered with corn cob and polish dust. I did not take them out and clean them. The crushed corn cob was not very expensive though, but does come in 50 pound bags.
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 1, 2024 22:29:00 GMT -5
The millions of years old rock from the ground is there to have, once you own the title or the mineral rights... all rock, minerals and metal ore. Property cost and property taxes and extraction costs are part of the equation... the demand for the extracted material sets the value. For example, Rubies are valuable... beyond the known extraction costs. Yes, high quality natural rubies (red sapphires) are way more rare and massively more valuable than diamonds.
Diamonds don't jump in price until 5 carats. Rubies jump in price after 2 carats.
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 1, 2024 22:23:52 GMT -5
I wonder about some of this. I have read plenty of accounts of some pretty rocks being found somewhere and people are excited about it until someone comes along with a backhoe and removes all of it. It seems like that is a bit of a common theme. I don't know how I feel about that. I guess if someone owns the land or has mineral rights or a claim or something that's fine and makes sense. But sometimes the impression I get is it's a public space and someone just robs it blind. I don't know a lot about how any of that works, but it seems strange and sad to me, and I wonder how that affects the cost of some slabs? Have personally experienced this. Too many damn people now days just out to make a profit. No love for the material itself. I have also. For example, took a group of people on a trip to several locations here in Southern Nevada. Knew 2 of the people, but not the rest. One of the spots I took them to was a mine where the opening was covered with orange chalcedony, which is rare, and the top of the mine was all purple chalcedony. The location is remote and virtually impossible to find without being led there. Was driving by a month later, so I swung in. All the orange chalcedony and a large portion of the purple chalcedony had been removed. Being how remote and hard it would be to find the location, I am certain someone that went on the trip went back to clean the spot out.
This is why I am very careful now about who I take to certain locations. For example, the mine where I dig the naturally hard turquoise. I have only taken 4 people there, and all people I knew well and trusted.
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