copiahdad
having dreams about rocks
Member since April 2012
Posts: 72
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Post by copiahdad on Aug 3, 2012 7:03:34 GMT -5
Ok, so I'm fairly new to tumbling. Been trying to vibe tumble agate and am having problems with residual grit and polish being stuck in small pits, voids and cracks in some of the stones. I've been doing the borax steps after the grit and polish steps but the rocks still retain grit and/or polish it in the voids. How do I remove all of the grit and/or polish? Ideas?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2012 7:55:05 GMT -5
If you are good at searching this topic has come up before. I would try to find it but I am terrible at searching. Someone will probably know where it is on here and point you in the right direction. Jim
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Post by pghram on Aug 3, 2012 12:05:42 GMT -5
Copiahdad,
The best advice is to course tumble until all pits, cracks, etc. are gone but I know that isn’t always 100% possible. I sometimes run problem stones through a cycle in an ultrasonic cleaner. I have never had any problems but some say it can damage some stones, so be forewarned.
Peace,
Rich
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herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on Aug 3, 2012 12:33:38 GMT -5
Jim is right, this has come up a good bit.
Rich is also right, the coarse tumble should continue until all pits and cracks are gone so no grit gets carried ahead to the next stage.
In my experience, there are sometimes when I *want* the pits to stay. A lot of my lake superior agate and bahia agate has interesting little round "pot holes" that I think look kind of cool, but these can carry grit and in some cases can get small chips of other stones trapped in them so they are buggers.
What *I* do is use a garden sprayer filled with water, and hand-clean each rock. It can take forever so if you want the pits you have committed yourself to a lot of work. I am running between 40 and 150 pounds of rock at any one time so hand-cleaning makes for long lonely nights in the garage when things are being moved forward.
The flip side is that if you are willing to be patient and leave the rocks in there until they are perfectly smooth, and don't rush the subsequent phases you can look forward to amazing results (as long as some other basic rules such as not mixing rocks of varied hardness) - but you need to have expectations of months instead of weeks before you get to the final stages.
Hope this helps, good luck, and post photos as you go!
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copiahdad
having dreams about rocks
Member since April 2012
Posts: 72
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Post by copiahdad on Aug 3, 2012 19:04:02 GMT -5
I guess I also forgot to mention that I'm vibe tumbling. Does that advice of continue course grind until void/pits are gone count for a vibe tumbler also?? Thanks for the help!
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Aug 3, 2012 20:29:16 GMT -5
what grit are you using for coarse and what brand of vibe?
Rough rocks and hammer broken stuff almost always needs to be roughed in a rotary in 60/90 grit before it can be put in a vibe tumbler. Well rounded beach rocks can sometimes skip the rotary but thats pretty much it.
Chuck
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Post by johnjsgems on Aug 3, 2012 20:54:51 GMT -5
You could invest in a cheap tile saw or Dremel and mini grinding wheels and grind out the flaws before tumbling. You won't remove flaws in a vibe tumbler. If you do tumble pitted/cracked rocks be sure to burnish immediately/wash/scrub/etc. After grit and polish dries it is really stuck.
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copiahdad
having dreams about rocks
Member since April 2012
Posts: 72
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Post by copiahdad on Aug 6, 2012 12:21:21 GMT -5
My course grind is done with 120/220. These are agates picked up in local gravel pits and creeks that are too small to cut and cab. I thought tumbling them would be something good to do with them. Turns out about half of all I have run through the tumbler have tiny little "pecks" in them that gather grit that does not come out with a borax stage. I do a burnish stage with borax after every grit/polish stage. I'll take a pic of one tonight after work so you can see what I"m talking about.
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Post by johnjsgems on Aug 6, 2012 13:09:58 GMT -5
Sounds like a plentiful supply. Why not cull the ones with pits and keep running batches until you have a whole load ready for next step? When I tumbled beach rocks (in a rotary) i tried to only pick up rocks without major flaws. Anything not cooperating by two weeks got pulled and tossed. You can speed that process up a lot with the vibe.
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Post by tntmom on Aug 6, 2012 13:22:34 GMT -5
One thing that works well for me, especially when doing stones with little druzy pockets that I want to keep, is 15 minutes before you rinse add a little bit of water to the vibe barrel and a couple of squirts of Dawn dishwashing detergent. Then when I go to rinse I do what John does and use a garden hose with a pressure nozzle on it and try to blast the grit out of the pockets. The dishwashing liquid loosens the grit and makes it slippery. Keep the stones in a bucket of water while you are individually rinsing each one. Once a stone dries it is very hard to get the grit out.
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Post by connrock on Aug 7, 2012 7:32:45 GMT -5
I use a Lot-O-Tumbler (vibe) and on the VERY rare occasion when I do problem rocks ,where I know the grit/polish will stay in the flaws,I use a LOT powdered laundry soap in the load before I add any grit/polish. I use about 3 heaping tablespoons of the soap adding it a little at a time and squirting water in to make a "soap paste".I let this run for about 15-30 minutes which lets the soap get impacted into those flaws before any grit/polish can. When the load is finished I also use a high pressure nozzle I made to "blast" out any grit/polish in the flaws. I should have said I use a "concentrated" spray as I have a well and only get from 40-60 psi. The nozzle I have has a 1/8 male pipe thread on it that screws into a garden hose adapter I made.The nozzle itself has a 30 degree "fan" type spray,,,,rather then a "round" spray. This type spray nozzle is used in open face gear lubrication and comes in an array of different angles and volumes. I also have a dry cleaners "spot cleaning' VERY high pressure spray gun I use in extreme cases,,, I don't really like to use it as it is very cumbersome and very dangerous as it WILL penetrate your skin so GOOD rubber gloves ARE A MUST when using it. Although I've never tried it,I've read about people "packing" bar soap into "voids",,,such as you may have in you agates,,,,before tumbling. This is where I came up with the idea of using the powdered laundry soap before adding grit/polish in my vibes. Good luck,, connrock
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copiahdad
having dreams about rocks
Member since April 2012
Posts: 72
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Post by copiahdad on Aug 7, 2012 10:35:56 GMT -5
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copiahdad
having dreams about rocks
Member since April 2012
Posts: 72
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Post by copiahdad on Aug 8, 2012 11:27:51 GMT -5
"<snip> When the load is finished I also use a high pressure nozzle I made to "blast" out any grit/polish in the flaws. I should have said I use a "concentrated" spray as I have a well and only get from 40-60 psi. The nozzle I have has a 1/8 male pipe thread on it that screws into a garden hose adapter I made.The nozzle itself has a 30 degree "fan" type spray,,,,rather then a "round" spray. This type spray nozzle is used in open face gear lubrication and comes in an array of different angles and volumes. Connrock, I've been trying to use a concentrated spray from typical sprayer on a garden hose but just can't get enough pressure like that to "blast the grit" out. You idea of building the high pressure spray nozzle seems very doable if I can find the right parts at the hardware store. I'll give it a try. Thanks!
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carloscinco
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since July 2008
Posts: 1,639
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Post by carloscinco on Aug 8, 2012 18:15:37 GMT -5
I used to have a dental cleaner that was made for attachment to a shower head. I added a couple of fittings to it and used a water hose for the water supply. It worked great, the tip made a strong water jet perfect for cleaning pits. I quit using it after I started trimming the pits off the rocks with a tile saw. I bought it on Ebay a couple of years ago for less than 20 bucks.
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YooperGal
off to a rocking start
Member since July 2012
Posts: 12
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Post by YooperGal on Aug 8, 2012 19:42:18 GMT -5
Ohhh.... Would a 'water pic' dental sprayer work!!!
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fwfranklen (Mike)
spending too much on rocks
Rock-ON--Have you kissed your rock today?
Member since August 2012
Posts: 379
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Post by fwfranklen (Mike) on Aug 9, 2012 16:01:41 GMT -5
Ultra sonic water pics work awsome for cleaning mineral samples from dirt and grime etc. Not sure about cleaning tightly packed grit or polish. I guess it would depend on if the rocks were allowed to dry completely with the grit in the cracks/voids.
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Rockdogger
starting to shine!
Member since October 2010
Posts: 28
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Post by Rockdogger on Aug 10, 2012 0:15:15 GMT -5
When I look at your agates (they are nice stones), I see a lot of white, but I also see some of the vugs are clean of the white polish. The only thing I can think about the stuck polish is to never let your agates even get somewhat dry before doing the final burnish of your stones. After you drain the polish from the stones, keep them wet before you burnish with soap or borax. Don't let any of the polish dry before burnishing. If they start to dry, the polish seems to cement itself to the small cracks and crevices.
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Post by connrock on Aug 10, 2012 8:22:21 GMT -5
There always seems to be a misconception about water volume and "high pressure". No matter what you do you will NEVER increase the water pressure in your home by simply adding a different type of nozzle. What you are doing by using a different nozzle is concentration the water flow through the nozzle which does not create a higher pressure.
I don't know if the type of nozzle I'm using is readable at a local hardware store ,or any other store, as mine are industrial nozzles.
If you would like one ,,PM me your mailing address and I'll send you one.
The one I made is attached to a "wand" made of 3/8" OD stainless steel tubing about 18"-20" long.I used a washing machine hose to connect the wand to a 1/2" ball valve to turn it on and off.
connrock
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Post by pghram on Aug 10, 2012 10:53:45 GMT -5
Copiahdad,
Seeing your pictures jogged my memory on another “trick” I have used. If I have a nice stone with a deep pit that can never be totally ground away, after the course-rotary-60/90 grind I will fill the pit with super-glue & after a few days of curing time, I’ll add it to the mediun-rotary-120/220 grind. I have saved a few really nice stones that way.
Peace,
Rich
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fwfranklen (Mike)
spending too much on rocks
Rock-ON--Have you kissed your rock today?
Member since August 2012
Posts: 379
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Post by fwfranklen (Mike) on Aug 10, 2012 13:07:50 GMT -5
Ditto to what Rich said. The glue I use is www.starbond.com/ sold by a lot of vendors www.ptscoshop.com/starbond_cyanoacrylate_(super_glue).htm you can purchase the accelerator/activator and you will have instant set up of the glue. Different thickness's for different size pits, crevices,etc. When sprayed with the activator....a lot of heat is generated so be carfull around skin. I glued my roller guides from my thumblers model B tumber (the ones that keep the barrel from walking back and forth on the rollers) when I sprayed the activator a puff of smoke came up just one little puff...not sure if it was the chemical action that caused the smoke or because it milted the rollers.
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