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DNC
Sept 8, 2012 23:05:31 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 8, 2012 23:05:31 GMT -5
Here's the Laugh Your Ass Off version of China's little 2012 parade this year (you should see the 60th Anniversary parade in 2010... holy shit):
Again... middle of the movie for the missiles.
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bushmanbilly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2008
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DNC
Sept 8, 2012 23:16:08 GMT -5
Post by bushmanbilly on Sept 8, 2012 23:16:08 GMT -5
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DNC
Sept 8, 2012 23:19:21 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 8, 2012 23:19:21 GMT -5
Forget that junk...
Now you get the interesting stuff...
Phillipines prepares for WAR against China... right now, as we complain about Obama:
Can't make this stuff up.
And you want Romney and Ryan to deal with this? Really?
Obama CANNOT talk about it... this is Foreign Policy, and our news is scrutinized. He deals with this stuff every single day. THIS stuff is his 'real' job, and the law crap is what he talks about. Now bitch about how he does NOTHING.
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DNC
Sept 8, 2012 23:25:15 GMT -5
Post by parfive on Sept 8, 2012 23:25:15 GMT -5
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DNC
Sept 8, 2012 23:28:50 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 8, 2012 23:28:50 GMT -5
I have faith in them too. You can Youtube for the China navy yourself. However, when they take ours out, who will defend our bases in the Phillipines and Okinawa? And then Russia lands in California and Alaska. And that's checkmate. And you want BOZO Romney to deal with this because he's a BUSINESSMAN? Ugh. Well, we reap what we sow... we're going to get him anyway because God missed Tampa with Issac by a few miles. Bummer for us. And Parfive... your article was about China's navy surpassing us... in 2004 .... you don't know WHAT they've done since then... But I disagree with the author about Iran... I think it's going to be the Phillipines first. Of course, if stupid Romney gets us involved in Iran, that's where our navy will be... and the Phillipines will fall. I think from a historical perspective, China's ultimate goal is going to take out Japan. What Japan did to the Chinese in WWIi was unforgiveable, and they never apologized. The reason Japan is disarmed is because of US treaty... we are obligated to defend them. If that defense takes out our navy and planes, the Soviets can pull their WWII tactic (good tactics are reused). Now... does all this put Obama's bowing into better perspective? Romney won't bow! He will DEMAND! He will PUT Russia and China into their rightful place! Then go back to dealing with the fact that 50% of the USA are on Food Stamps. This is 2012, not 1980. The Chinese don't all ride bicycles and fight with pitchforks anymore. The USSR is gone... but Russia inherited all the goodies, and have also been rebuilding, testing their muscles on Chechnya and Georgia... recently. The Phillipine are a US Protectorate.... OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA!!!!
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DNC
Sept 8, 2012 23:42:34 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 8, 2012 23:42:34 GMT -5
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bushmanbilly
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DNC
Sept 8, 2012 23:55:06 GMT -5
Post by bushmanbilly on Sept 8, 2012 23:55:06 GMT -5
Show me the part that says Putin ignored Harper. CTVNews.ca Staff Published Saturday, Sep. 8, 2012 7:08AM EDT Last Updated Saturday, Sep. 8, 2012 6:50PM EDT Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Russian President Vladimir Putin disagreed sharply on ways to stop the continuing bloodshed in Syria during the Asia Pacific Summit on Saturday. While the two leaders were all smiles and handshakes before the cameras, behind closed doors the underlying tensions on how to deal with the slaughter in Syria revealed the persistent rift between Russia and the West. During a nearly hour-long conversation with Putin on Friday, Harper urged the Russian president to stop obstructing efforts to end the violence in Syria. For nearly 18 months, President Bashar Assad has battled an uprising that has left at least 23,000 Syrians dead. Following the meeting, Harper told reporters that on this issue, the two countries are simply not on the same page. "Obviously the government of Russia and ourselves have very different perspectives on this. Our view is pretty clear that as long as Assad remains in power practicing brutality against his citizens, the situation there is going to become more and more desperate and more and more chaotic for everybody,” he said. "Obviously, Mr. Putin has a different perspective, but I urged Russia to play a more positive role than it's been playing." Russia has continuously blocked efforts by the UN Security Council to sanction Syria. Canada and other Western allies have tried to pressure Russia to cut off long-time ally Assad. Two days before the meeting, Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird met with Russian counterpart Sergey Lavrov, and stressed Canada's disapproval of Russia's continued support of the Syrian regime. Since you can change the subject like the wind Helen. Quote from Rich's link. With enough anti-ship missiles, the Iranians can halt tanker traffic through Hormuz for weeks, even months. With the flow of oil from the Gulf curtailed, the price of a barrel of crude will skyrocket on the world market. Within days the global economy will begin to grind to a halt.Kinda makes you rethink Barry's decision on Keystone, now doesn't it.
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DNC
Sept 9, 2012 0:05:16 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 9, 2012 0:05:16 GMT -5
And btw Billy, will Canada send troops if we engage in either Iran or the Phillipines? How many you got buddy?
Because if your fav guy Romney gets elected, which is looking good, we will need your children too.
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DNC
Sept 9, 2012 0:10:31 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 9, 2012 0:10:31 GMT -5
Ignoring Harper means he refused cooperation. Period. That's ignoring Harper's plea. Now, he's going to pay attention to Romney's plea after he SAID he wasn't going to deal with Romney on missiles in Europe this week:)? In foreign affairs, to 'ignore' means not come to terms. England asked Germany to not invade France, Hitler 'ignored' them. What did Hitler do?
WHO is naive?
KEYSTONE?! Keystone is to move Canadian oil to our refineries to SHIP TO CHINA. Tell me why we should do that again please. Because guess what? We can get oil from Canada RIGHT NOW and truck it just fine anywhere to the USA. What for the Keystone again, besides to make YOU money?
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DNC
Sept 9, 2012 1:03:50 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 9, 2012 1:03:50 GMT -5
And one more thought... when Rome destroyed itself through the gluttony and greed of the rich... what happened next?
Oh yah... it was SACKED by the Visigoths... when the starving slaves opened the gates for them.
At least OUR rich have the common sense to put THEIR money in Switzerland and Cayman Island bank accounts as they finish destroying our economy. All those private jets and yachts can come in handy when the crap Romney causes hits the fans.
No more taxes! Keystone Pipeline for shipping North American oil to China! Who needs a healthy population, when those who matter have planes and yachts to take them to their 6th home somewhere safe?
No, I don't think war will come Jan 2nd, but that all depends on just how greedy Romney is. From what EVERYONE's seen, pretty damned greedy... only this time, we can't add the 2 wars to the deficit, so lets just play 'what if', Billy.
WHAT IF Romney starts the fight in Iran? If YOU were playing chess, with the world as your board, and YOU were the Chinese... what would YOU do? I'd seize the opportunity. Phillipines.
WHAT IF you were playing Russia? I'd seize the opportunity. Take out the missiles in Europe.
WHAT IF the US has troops in Afghanistan. US has troops in Iran. US Navy in Red Sea and Persian Gulf... Open targets! YAY!!! THREE front war. Who will fight with us? Who is STILL ARMED?
What if you were playing Romney? You'd go fight Iran! Screw the evil empire Russia!
What if you were playing Obama? Negotiate. Buy time... FIND something Russia and China can fight over, BEFORE engaging so we are naked. If I had to guess, part of the reason Obama has grey hair, and has 'been on my knees' so many times is from juggling the geopolitical diplomacy. It's his job. He can't talk about that part of his job.
Right now we have Stalemate, shall we let Romney move us into Checkmate? So you can have your Keystone?
Do you BELIEVE that Romney will grow a brain by January? Do you? REALLY? Romney wants OIL... Cheney will be RIGHT BACK there wanting Halliburton stock to go up. Businessmen think business. Would you expect them to think differently? War is profitable, and everyone knows it. At least til its too late, and then they get in the private jets and fly away.
Good thing we're only playing 'what if'.
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bushmanbilly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2008
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DNC
Sept 9, 2012 1:49:12 GMT -5
Post by bushmanbilly on Sept 9, 2012 1:49:12 GMT -5
And btw Billy, will Canada send troops if we engage in either Iran or the Phillipines? How many you got buddy? Of course we will. Barry has not pissed us off completely. We could send more troops and equipment. But through decades of Liberal Governments. Our Military was cut to pieces. Its only in the last few years that Harper has been rebuilding and repairing the damage that the Libs have done. You ever here the saying that a person is so smart they are dumb. Your a very smart person Helen. But when it comes to oil.You are clueless. You want to truck oil across the border. Hahahahahahahahahahaha Hahahahahahahahahahaha Hahahahahahahahahahaha Hahahahahahahahahahaha Ya ok, at 240 bbl's per load. Hahahahahahahahahahaha But what if one rolls over on top of the Aquifer..Hahahahahahahahahahaha 500 loads perday Hahahahahahahahahahaha
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bushmanbilly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2008
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DNC
Sept 9, 2012 2:24:45 GMT -5
Post by bushmanbilly on Sept 9, 2012 2:24:45 GMT -5
And btw it would take a fleet of over 2000 trucks. But you libs don't care about carbon foot prints, right. trucking is the most expensive way to move oil. Pipeline the cheapest. You Helen you have praised Barry on everything from a to z. The only things you left out are. He can turn his blood into wine and his flesh into bread.
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DNC
Sept 9, 2012 2:27:28 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 9, 2012 2:27:28 GMT -5
Already told you I am no oil pro. I AM however a foreign policy pro. Sigh.
I agree, our military has been pretty gutted. It's been a long time since top tax rates were at 92% to keep our war machine fed. So when at a shootout, when you have a pistol and you know the other TWO guys have heat seeking missiles, maybe the better idea is not to start shooting or call them names.
As I said, Romney looks like he's going to make it in November. If that's the case, Canadians will never forget his name either:).
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DNC
Sept 9, 2012 2:35:24 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 9, 2012 2:35:24 GMT -5
No Billy, I'd rather have Reagan back, but Obama is the lesser evil. Romney is a stupid greedy idiot.
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DNC
Sept 9, 2012 2:45:39 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 9, 2012 2:45:39 GMT -5
You Helen you have praised Barry on everything from a to z. The only things you left out are. He can turn his blood into wine and his flesh into bread. As for 'praising' Barry, I have stated the facts, presented the evidence, and if it's not persuasive and facts and evidence don't matter, than maybe faith will work. Because if faith doesn't work, we are in for perhaps the toughest next few years the US has ever faced. This November may be the most important election ever, not because Obama's such a phenomenal President, but because the alternative is just plain terrifying. We live in interesting times.
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DNC
Sept 9, 2012 14:15:32 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 9, 2012 14:15:32 GMT -5
And here's one more interesting insight. This is the 1 year stock chart for Lockheed Martin. They make missiles and military planes. SOMEONE thinks we're going to need a lot of missiles...and 74% of LMT's sales come from the US Gov't. Yet... the Republican 'line' is that the Dems want to cut defense spending! How does that work exactly, while their real money, and not their flapping mouths, are buying missile building stock from a company that derives the vast majority of their INCOME from the Gov't? Because... they think that the Gov't will be buying lots of missiles, and soon? LMT's 1 year stock chart HERE: finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=LMT&t=1y&l=on&z=l&q=l&c=One year ago, Lockheed Martin stock was at $70... today it stands at $92. It had a bad day yesterday when the new polls came out showing Obama's poll bump from the Dem Convention. I WONDER what the Republicans have planned for us. (*cough* Iran!!!) And completely ignoring exactly what other nations are doing in the world while they stupidly pursue their money. Thank God Obama saved the Auto industry, despite Mitt Romney's 'let them fail', because those factories could be converted to military transport building if necessary. If we didn't even have that, what manufacturing is left to us that we COULD we adapt to gear up in the eventuality of an invasion on our soil if it came to that? And... China's currently got the largest Submarine fleet in the world: stevenmcollins.com/WordPress/?p=1577BusinessWeek reported analyst assessments that say we're OK because the subs are LOUD... uhhh: articles.businessinsider.com/2011-12-27/news/30560552_1_submarine-people-s-liberation-army-navy-jin(at the time of the article in 2011, China had only 2 nuclear subs, today they have a confirmed 6 in the SE Asian waters, plus 62 'regular' subs, per recent news) From above article: Following the Chinese in U.S. subs, the U.S. Navy was surprised to find the Jin boats could be detected at the "first convergence zone," a ring of sonic noise, produced by vessels in motion, 25 miles away from the submarine.
Definitely good news for Naval commanders if push ever comes to shove, and China looks to flex its naval muscle.
The Jin-class, or Type 094, nuclear submarine carries 12 JL-2 ballistic missiles with a range of almost 5,000 miles. The JL-2s can be fixed with nuclear or conventional warheads and are capable of hitting Alaska, Hawaii, and the continental U.S. from the west Pacific near China's coast.
The boats are thought to be produced at a huge underground nuclear submarine base picked up by satellite in 2008. In pictures sent to The Telegraph, analysts note one Jin-class submarine parked nearby, and a string of warships moored near a network of underground tunnels.
The entrance to the tunnels appears to be 60 feet high and experts believe internal caverns could hide up to 20 nuclear subs from surveillance. Read more: articles.businessinsider.com/2011-12-27/news/30560552_1_submarine-people-s-liberation-army-navy-jin#ixzz2608VUnjSI'm not sure how being able to hear the subs at 25 miles is helpful when they have a range of 5000 miles. Btw... has Romney ever mentioned ANYTHING about the about to explode conflict in SE Asian waters? The US has 70,000 troops in that region... troops that will be stranded if our 7 sub Navy cannot take out China's 62 sub and more destroyer and transport ships in the area. The ONLY THING our Navy has China beat on right now is air craft carriers... but if we are fighting in their backyard, their new fighters (that are newer and reputedly faster and versatile than ours) do not need to refuel, they can take off from China... right next to the 262 missile battery aimed at the Phillipines in Guangzhou as we speak. Can 62 subs take out a few aircraft carriers? Let me think... Right, we need Rmoney and Ryan, they'll fix everything.
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
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DNC
Sept 9, 2012 17:32:37 GMT -5
Post by Sabre52 on Sept 9, 2012 17:32:37 GMT -5
Hmmm. Interestin scary China diatribe. What I get from it is A. China is scary....Yep. B. Re elect Obama who will bend over for them like he has for most other evil empires in the world so maybe they'll be gentle with us. *L*
Hopefully, all your elect Obama because "China is scary" stuff will not really come to fruition for a couple of reasons. A. China owns a good piece of us and why blow up crap you already own? B. China needs folks to sell their junk too, and we buy lots. Why destroy your customer base unless something really serious occurs like a famine or something of that sort. C. Lots of us have investments in China ( most our retirement funds that are global do at least). Why have us blow up their stuff we invest in and help them build and grow. D. Why should they get involved at all when our own internal stresses and socialist/ Commies like Obama are doing the job for them. When we run out of money the freeloaders will probably bring down the government anyway and all Obama preaches is weakness, appeasement, divisiveness and class warfare which enables their efforts and helps fracture the nation. Shoot, he's already playing on the China team big time. Why attack your own puppet?. I can promise you, that with Obama president, if the Chinese were to attack us, he'd be surrendering and kissing their asses in and shouting "hail comrade I've been on your side for years" in like five minutes *L*....Mel
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DNC
Sept 9, 2012 19:10:26 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 9, 2012 19:10:26 GMT -5
Mel... you really don't read much that you respond to do you:)?
First, China will NOT attack us directly. What for? The problem is that they DISPUTE the islands to the west of the Phillipines and the Phillipines insist it's theirs. They are at the border of war... WITH EACH OTHER (China and Phillipines). The Phillipines is a US ally that we promised to protect.
We are using their bases, which gives us access to um... surveillance stuff.
China will not blow US up. Nor will Russia. Directly. Maybe you should watch the youtube movie I posted about China and the Phillipines. Russia and China conducted joint Naval exercises just this year. Why?
Russia wants the US missiles in Europe... that are supposedly not pointed at them (*cough*) to be REMOVED (remember Cuban missile crisis?). We don't want to remove them.
So the Russians refuse to sanction Iran in the UN, and is ready to step in to help Assad in Syria. They are further accusing the US of helping the rebels in Syria.
The web is very tangled, and at the moment, we are at stalemate. There is no ass-kissing. However, if we start calling them names, it can start a domino effect. Because a Russia-China-Iran alliance would not be good for the US. If they do a Russia-China-Iran-Syria alliance, it can get VERY messy very fast.
And Romney, with 0 international experience, actually with so little thought for it that he didn't bother mentioning US troops AT ALL during the convention, is running around running his mouth CALLING Russia an enemy.
IF we engage in Iran... that's giving Russia the chance to take out our missiles in Europe, and China takes the islands by force in the South China seas. No one will fight us... but we will then have a choice. Lose our bases in Europe AND Asia simultaneously... leaving Japan COMPLETELY isolated... while we get mired in another war in Iran. In one swoop, from that one mistake, we have lost the world, and all our bases in it except for Okinawa, which would be next. That's the reversal of nearly 100 years of US geopolitical advances.
China has never been interested in conquering any nation. They don't want to mess with them, they have always preferred tribute and trade, not governance, EXCEPT over those provinces China has traditionally considered Chinese (ie., Tibet-part of China for 600 years, Taiwan- for 400 years I believe). It's the SOVIETS who like PHYSICAL conquest. If we start squawking about their act of war on our property (European missiles), they may just declare war. China may not... but... they could also take that as a signal to take out Japan, hard to say. China will not land on our shores, or it's highly unlikely. It's the Russians who could and would if war is declared.
Do you get it now? Please read the note so I don't have to repeat it for a 3rd time.
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Sabre52
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Sept 9, 2012 19:48:37 GMT -5
Post by Sabre52 on Sept 9, 2012 19:48:37 GMT -5
*L* I did read what you wrote Helen, despite the fact that you feel it's necessary to write a guldanged book for every post ( your political hack training I guess *L*). It can be condensed you know:
Russia scary. China scary. Obama in your view good, Romney bad. It don't take a massive tome to make your point. I was agreeing with you that China will not directly attack us and gave my reasons why. You spent a lot of words telling us why we might get involved in disputes with China or Russia ( alliances, disputed territories and such) and I agree with that too. But touting Obama as the best man for the job is IMHO a fraking joke. He's practically on their team and has done more to weaken the country and make us seem weak in the eyes of the world than any other president except maybe Carter. He's seen as a guy who prefers lipservice and appeasement and as one of their socialist ilk, which he is. Why should Russia or China think they have to do anything? They can just let Obama follow the course he's set and he'll turn us into the United Socialist States of America or worse*L*.
Condensed version so your eyes don't get tired: Russia Commie, scary. China Commie, scary. Obama perceived weak, pretty much Commie too. Don't worry either of above. Obama scary! *L* Now don't make me splain it to you for a third time. Lucy! ....Mel
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DNC
Sept 9, 2012 20:13:04 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 9, 2012 20:13:04 GMT -5
Obama perceived as negotiator. Dangerous because no one knows what deals he's cutting behind others back. Not predictable.
Romney perceived as a joke and mistake prone and 'green'. Easy to take advantage of.
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