grayfingers
Cave Dweller
Member since November 2007
Posts: 4,575
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Post by grayfingers on Nov 8, 2012 17:17:29 GMT -5
Wow . . .
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lparker
fully equipped rock polisher
Still doing too much for being retired!
Member since March 2008
Posts: 1,202
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Post by lparker on Nov 8, 2012 17:37:57 GMT -5
Abortion isn't forced on anyone. That's still a choice. The gripe was that religious affiliated hospitals, etc have to offer free contraception through their ins. cos. Churches are exempt. If you read the link, 98% of Catholic women use contraception. And not all women working at religious affiliated organizations belong to that particular religion. Why shouldn't they get the same insurance benefits as everyone else? That's discrimination.
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lparker
fully equipped rock polisher
Still doing too much for being retired!
Member since March 2008
Posts: 1,202
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Post by lparker on Nov 8, 2012 17:40:25 GMT -5
and, you betcha "Do you feel the Gov. should pay for your Viagra?"
if I needed it.
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bushmanbilly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2008
Posts: 4,719
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Post by bushmanbilly on Nov 8, 2012 17:51:29 GMT -5
The way I see it. These people knew the rules and beliefs of the Catholic workplace before they applied..Why should they be forced to go against their beliefs? If people don't like it work someplace else. So what your sayin is. a person can join the US army. Claim there against guns and violence. And demand that they are exempt from combat. Same shit different pile.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Nov 8, 2012 20:07:10 GMT -5
Totally agree with you on this one Charlie. Also like the idea of a flat tax as long as it's not a VAT tax added to income tax. Hate the lobbies and pork too. If spending is not reined in so the debt clock reverses, we're all screwed.
Helen: Racists voted for Romney. Probably, but Helen *L*, Girl you crack me up as usual. I would wager the number of hardcore racists that voted for Obama exceeded those that voted for Romney by a magnitude of one hundred. Just a different color of racist that's all. All those African Americans and Latinos hating rich ole whitey *L*. As usual, you Pollyanna libs overlook the fact that racism goes both ways. And hey, in a few, years white folks will be the minority. I can't wait to get all them protections against the majority folks picking on me all the time. Of course, I wonder if the African Americans and Latinos will afford us the same protection by law we've provided them all these years. I know I was born in Oakland, California and went to a school where most students were not white and guess what, no protection for minority whitey *L*.....Mel
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lparker
fully equipped rock polisher
Still doing too much for being retired!
Member since March 2008
Posts: 1,202
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Post by lparker on Nov 8, 2012 20:38:30 GMT -5
I have never read or heard that the ins cos. they use do or do not provide contraception with a co-pay only that they didn't want to provide free contraception.
The argument has no relation to anything about the Army.
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Post by helens on Nov 8, 2012 20:41:23 GMT -5
Mel, you can't end hate with more hate. Some hate can't be ended, but where the difference can be made, it's going to be made with love and understanding. People have to work through their issues. The best way to do that is to learn to work together. You can call it what you like, but for decades the US has not been fair, and I'm not talking about just against minorities, but also against women.
Perhaps you are right, actually in this I'm pretty sure you are right, that there ARE black men who DO hate white men. Maybe not in the numbers it goes the other way, but the majority population is white.
How do you resolve that hatred? By holding them down more and giving them more reason to hate? How does that fix ANYTHING? When humans can judge ALL humans by their individual actions and merits, the world will be a better place to be for everyone.
The biggest problem I have with the abortion issue is that it is a double standard. If a woman is violently raped, or ANY rape for that matter, she does not need a reminder every second for 9 months of her trauma. That is HER choice because it's HER BODY. The RIGHTS we have are over our OWN bodies, not other people's. To say that a stranger can live off your blood, excrete in your bloodstream, and you have to deal with it... is far more intrusive than the government telling you you must have a complete stranger living in your home, sleeping between you and your wife.
Government has NO business in ANYONE's bedroom, and the 'rights' of an unborn does not take precedence over the rights of the human individual that must HOUSE that unborn. Women are not cows, and the PRESUMPTION that someone who has NOTHING to do with that situation has a right to 'protect' the UNWELCOME intruder in your home or your body is absurd. When the Republican party thinks it can LEGISLATE against the home/body owner, they have lost their collective minds, and deserve NO power.
I do not agree with abortion, so I'll never have one. But I do not PRESUME to tell someone else that someone they DO NOT WANT in their body MUST live there.
So in defending an individual's RIGHT to their own body, birth control can usually prevent that discussion. Accidents can happen, but why let it get to the accident stage where a moral decision must be made? No pregnancy, no abortion. How can it get simpler than that?
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Post by jakesrocks on Nov 8, 2012 21:01:42 GMT -5
Just one question Helen.
Why the hell should I have to pay for contraception for the girl down the street who's screwing everything in pants ? And why should I have to pay for her abortions ? I was always taught you wanna play, you gotta pay.
I have no problem with emergency abortions in the case of incest or rape. But the girl that spreads her legs for anyone, should pay for her own damned abortion.
And yes, there are women out there who are little better than cows. 4 - 5 - 6 kids, all with different fathers, and all on welfare. All living off of your tax dollars. Leaches on society.
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Post by helens on Nov 8, 2012 21:11:22 GMT -5
Just one question Helen. Why the hell should I have to pay for contraception for the girl down the street who's screwing everything in pants ? And why should I have to pay for her abortions ? I was always taught you wanna play, you gotta pay. I have no problem with emergency abortions in the case of incest or rape. But the girl that spreads her legs for anyone, should pay for her own damned abortion. And yes, there are women out there who are little better than cows. 4 - 5 - 6 kids, all with different fathers, and all on welfare. All living off of your tax dollars. Leaches on society. For one thing, you always have. Insurance has always paid for birth control. You never complained about it before, why now? The cost for that 'deductible' is like $8 a MONTH? That's what people are whining about. Now tell me how $8 a MONTH is more money than if the girl got pregnant and you had to pay $25,000 for the birth. Then, if she's a crappy mom, or, as you put it, 'screwing everything in pants', teaching her child to become a delinquent and probably not feeding or caring for it. Maybe the state steps in to help the child, and then it costs you food stamps and welfare, something ELSE you didn't LIKE. When that child is 18, you may pay $150,000 a year for his/her incarceration. Tell me how that's cheaper than $8 a month to PREVENT this.
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Post by jakesrocks on Nov 8, 2012 21:35:17 GMT -5
Always paid for birth control ? I don't think so. When I started buying my own insurance, there were 3 kinds of birth control. Abstinence, condoms and having your tubes tied.
Second child, unwed mother, different fathers, mandatory sterilization. Same for any man who has fathered 2 kids out of wedlock with 2 different women. No discrimination there. Don't want sterilization ? Pay for your own damned birth control pills and condoms. No ifs, ands or buts. And if something screws up and you still get pregnant, pay for your own damned abortion. Don't expect me to pay for it.
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Post by helens on Nov 8, 2012 22:12:27 GMT -5
Don, when you started buying your own insurance, birth control didn't exist. Heck, did cars exist? (I'm JOKING!). Anyway, I tried to find out about what the birth control laws were before, and apparently, 28 states made insurance pay for it, and the rest did not: www.prochoiceamerica.org/what-is-choice/birth-control/insurance-coverage.htmlThe Challenge Tens of millions of women don't have insurance coverage for their prescription birth control. That means that many women can't afford the birth-control method that's right for them. Some women may not use any birth-control method at all because it is too expensive. When couples don't use birth control consistently, the number of unintended pregnancies increases.
Our Solution We believe that lawmakers in the states and Congress should make insurance companies cover prescription birth control in the same way they pay for other prescriptions. Women are more likely to use prescription birth control when they can afford it. When more women use birth control, there are fewer unintended pregnancies.
Laws About Insurance Coverage for Prescription Birth Control
Map of State Laws Map showing states that have laws about insurance coverage for birth control. Summary of State and Federal Laws Contraceptive Equity 28 states have laws or regulations ensuring equity in private insurance coverage for prescription contraception: AZ, AR, CA, CO, CT, DE, GA, HI, IL, IA, ME, MD, MA, MI, MO, MT, NV, NH, NJ, NM, NY, NC, OR, RI, VT, WA, WV, WI.
So not all states had insurance that paid for birth control. Now they ALL have to. What's not fair about that? As for the paying for your own birth control, some people didn't do that, they simply made you pay for their child. Which do you prefer?
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Post by jakesrocks on Nov 8, 2012 22:31:36 GMT -5
You fail to mention in which year all of these states started paying for birth control.
What is fair about it ? I produced 2 kids. I payed to support both of them until they finished school and found jobs. During that time, it was decided by our doctors that it would probably kill my then wife to have another baby. I paid for her birth control pills until I could arrange a little clip and tie job for myself. That was taken care of by military doctors. (Yes, the taxpayers paid for my vasectomy). Only because it was deemed a medical necessity for my then wife's health.
For those who won't pay for their own birth control, sterilize them, remove the kid and place it for adoption. There are bunches of responsible couples out there who for one reason or another, can't have children of their own. They would love to adopt one or more.
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Post by helens on Nov 8, 2012 22:32:24 GMT -5
I think insurance ALSO covers sterilization:).
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darstcreek77
has rocks in the head
Member since April 2011
Posts: 673
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Post by darstcreek77 on Nov 8, 2012 22:51:52 GMT -5
Is it 10 to 1 that whites hate black men or 20 to 1 .. am I a racist because I like a white mans ideals better , is it racist to vote a bro in because hes black reguardless if you dont know jack about him ? so I believe low taxs only on welfare for 2 years , drug testing for people on welfare , tax everybody at 10 percent EVERYBODY makes me a racist . So I dont believe the President shouldnt bow to a 2x 4 shit hole country leader , I believe in man to woman marriage I believe in Jesus as my GOD ,so that makes me a racist ? So loveing my country and wanting the best for my country makes me a racist ? Ok you have you have me pegged I am A racist but you better never call me a racist to my face ! This president is as clear as mud .....
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Post by helens on Nov 8, 2012 23:08:34 GMT -5
Back to the Fox News lies. The ENTIRE population of blacks in the USA is 12.6% as of 2010's census: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_StatesThat 12.6% of the population is every single black man woman and child, including infants and those under voting age. That leaves AT BEST 8% of the ENTIRE US population of blacks voting age. OF that 8% of the USA, the news has been going on and on that 15% of the black population in the USA voted... and 90% of that voted for Obama. 15% of 8% is 2% of the US population voted... and of that 2%, 10% did NOT vote for Obama, but voted for Romney. The last 2 elections, voter turnout was roughly 60% of the population. Obama won by 50% of the vote. That means 30% of the ENTIRE US Population voted for Obama. And of that 30%, only 2% could POSSIBLY be black. What's all that mean? That means that if only 2% of the 30% that voted for Obama were BLACK, that means 93% of his votes came from WHITES, because the OTHER minorities are even SMALLER than the black minority, and Obama did NOT get 90% of even those votes. Let me repeat that. 93% of the people who voted Obama for President were WHITE. You might want to stop getting your news from Faux News and propaganda sites. You were lied to, and instead of learning your lesson (Romney is going to win by LANDSLIDE... 1 hour before Obama won by LANDSLIDE... feeling lied to yet?), you go spout some more lies.
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Post by jakesrocks on Nov 8, 2012 23:17:43 GMT -5
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willrock
off to a rocking start
Member since March 2012
Posts: 17
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Post by willrock on Nov 8, 2012 23:22:56 GMT -5
I wanted to thank Helen for schooling these asshats
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Post by helens on Nov 8, 2012 23:24:14 GMT -5
I don't care about the Black Panthers, Don. They are a minority of a minority.
Going back to figures, if the ENTIRE black population is 12.6% of the US population, then the most that are over 18 would be 8% of the US population. How many % of ALL blacks are Black Panthers?
Get real, they don't have enough bodies to take out 1 state worth of National Guard in the entire USA. Probably not enough bodies to take out 1 police force in one city. Where's the threat?
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Nov 8, 2012 23:32:21 GMT -5
Helen: The answer to the problem of racism is two fold in my book. First off, treat others as you yourself would like to be treated and secondly judge folks on their merits , character and achievements rather than on their color. Excellent individuals come in every race, creed and color as do worthless individuals who contribute nothing to society.
Unfortunately, anthropologically speaking, mankind is tribal by nature. It's ingrained in all of us to try to belong to a group, usually those we feel the most comfortable with, and the largest group is determined often by things like nationality, color, religion, political party etc. Starts when we're kids and we even learn sub tribes within our main tribe ie: The brains, nerds, jocks, stoners, gangbangers etc. Even as you've remarked, gender is to some extent a "tribe", men's clubs, women's clubs etc. Would be nice if folks sorted themselves out more rationally and folks did not create all these barriers, but man is a nasty beast in some ways and it ain't ever ever gonna happen. Any stress creators like famines, wars, elections, social upheavals, disagreements about religion, territory etc bring out the tribalism every time because folks unite with those they know and trust and with whom they share values...........Mel
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Post by jakesrocks on Nov 8, 2012 23:32:55 GMT -5
<< I don't care about the Black Panthers, Don. They are a minority of a minority. >>
Well how about that folks. Helen doesn't care about the very same people the she so strongly defended just a couple of days ago. Just what do you care about Helen, other than Maaastah Barack.
I really do suggest that you read that article. Maybe it will make you learn about certain groups before you jump to their defense.
<< Probably not enough bodies to take out 1 police force in one city >>
You really, really do need to read that article Helen.
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