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Post by Peruano on Nov 19, 2012 12:30:28 GMT -5
I fell into this saw with a 10" blade that has suffered somewhat from outdoor neglect, but have hopes of getting it running to supplement my little 6" and 7" trim saws (they are delightful sources of fun so far). Can anyone tell me a name brand and whether I should work on restoring the mechanical feed on this saw or going to a gravity method using the same drive rails. I measured the shaft to bottom of pan at 6.5" so am tempted to conclude it could be a 12" saw. Thanks in advance. BTW I'm a long time lurker, but hope to start posting some of my rocks (worked and otherwise) in the coming weeks. Tom
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jason12x12
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Member since October 2011
Posts: 798
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Post by jason12x12 on Nov 19, 2012 13:31:23 GMT -5
i thought i heard of someone using a microwave platter spining motor for the drive feed... the motor that makes it go round but gravity could work also. looks solid as could be. does it have a hat?
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The Dad_Ohs
fully equipped rock polisher
Take me to your Labradorite!!
Member since September 2012
Posts: 1,860
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Post by The Dad_Ohs on Nov 19, 2012 14:33:58 GMT -5
I would start with the wiring, then the motor, then the mechanical part of it. As far as the feed.... If the auto feed works, I would leave it intact and use it.... just make it is well greased at all bearings especially the arbor. If you really want to convert it to gravity feed, do it!! Ultimately you are the one who has to use it. It looks lie it is all there, just need to soak the threaded rods in WD-40 or rust buster for a bit then slowly work the threads back and forth and should clean up nicely.
In other words.. yes!! I think it is worth restoring!
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Post by jakesrocks on Nov 19, 2012 15:25:43 GMT -5
That type of feed should only need a good cleaning and some oil or grease. Just clean everything up real good. As already mentioned, all new wiring for safety. Maybe open the motor up and clean dirt and dead bugs out of it. Then give it a test drive.
Interesting saw for a 10". Never seen one exactly like it. Check the distance from the bottom of the blade to the bottom of the tank. It looks like you may have room for a 12" or possibly even 14" blade.
Good luck, and post pics of the cleanup.
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Post by deb193redux on Nov 19, 2012 16:44:15 GMT -5
I have not really seen vintage 10" like that. There is a "new" HP 10" that has that box/vise design, but I understood there was not an "old" HP 10" like this.
Does it have a lid?
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RockIt2Me
has rocks in the head
Sometimes I have to tell myself, "It's not worth the jail time."
Member since December 2009
Posts: 668
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Post by RockIt2Me on Nov 19, 2012 18:19:14 GMT -5
Cool!!! I love that kind of project. Great find.
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Post by johnjsgems on Nov 19, 2012 20:00:26 GMT -5
I was going to suggest what Don said. If factory saw likely a 12" or larger. Blade looks way too small for the vise. Picture doesn't show bottom clearance. And as Daniel said, the new Chinese HP has a 10" slab saw but it was a new design, not an HP copy.
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The Dad_Ohs
fully equipped rock polisher
Take me to your Labradorite!!
Member since September 2012
Posts: 1,860
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Post by The Dad_Ohs on Nov 19, 2012 20:10:42 GMT -5
I have not really seen vintage 10" like that. There is a "new" HP 10" that has that box/vise design, but I understood there was not an "old" HP 10" like this. Does it have a lid? Thats some serious gear reduction unit on the auto feed!! should be good to go as long as the seals are good on it. judging by what I can see of the saw I see some similarities to my 18 inch Lortone. not saying it is a lortone, but it looks like it should a lot bigger than 10 inch ... maybe closer to 14 but someone put in a smaller blade to save money at some point. Easiest way to tell is measure from bottom of tank to center of arbor and subtract about an inch, inch & a half and you are probably about what size it should be. just my
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slabbercabber
starting to shine!
Member since March 2010
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Post by slabbercabber on Nov 19, 2012 20:10:47 GMT -5
OK first let me admit I have absolutely no good reason to say this. But I would say it looks like a prototype for the Frantom. No question it can be cleaned up and run as originally built.
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Post by Peruano on Nov 20, 2012 9:51:03 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for the input and encouragement. No top exists, but the hinges are there where it used to be attached. I had already decided that wiring would come first, for safety sake. It will be a learning experience for me with the reward of a working saw at the end. Tom
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jspencer
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Post by jspencer on Nov 20, 2012 13:01:54 GMT -5
The vise and the drive engagement are like that of an old HP. My friend has an 18" older HP. Other than a little grease the auto-feed should be fine. But clean off the threads on the rod good and spray the lever that engages the drive to be sure it operates freely. And that the rails the carriage sits on are rust free and lubed and any rollers turn free. Measure from the center of blade arbor to bottom of tank to help determine what blade it may hold. What is the H.P. of the motor?
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Post by Peruano on Nov 20, 2012 15:44:25 GMT -5
Good points, the distance from the middle of the arbor shaft to the pan floor is 6.5" which probably indicates a potential for a 12" blade in lieu of the 10" that was on it. The motor is a Wagner 1/4 hp. Tom
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borock
starting to spend too much on rocks
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Post by borock on Nov 20, 2012 17:52:31 GMT -5
Looks like to me a 12 or 14 in saw. Looks like well built.
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jspencer
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since March 2011
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Post by jspencer on Nov 21, 2012 0:27:32 GMT -5
1/4 h.p. sounds kinda small even for a 10" saw to me. My 10" has a 1/2 h.p. while my 14" uses a 3/4 h.p. motor. Maybe I`m over rating it since I am no expert for sure. Try the blade it came with to start with if it looks to be solid.
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Post by Peruano on Nov 21, 2012 9:12:28 GMT -5
It was dark, the data plate was faded and crunged, and my bifocals were out of their optimal range. I 'll recheck motor size, and get to work on the saw rehab as weather and time permit. Thanks again for the encouragement and input. Tom
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Post by jakesrocks on Nov 21, 2012 9:46:58 GMT -5
1/4 HP is sort of stretching the limits on a 10" saw. !/3 HP would be better, and probably run a 14" with no problem. My 16" has a 1/2 HP that came with it when it was new.
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Post by Peruano on Nov 23, 2012 18:23:42 GMT -5
There are several features about this saw that suggest that it is old. Hence the motor will likely be replaced/updated even tho it runs. The gear/step down for the feed is a Jack and Heintz Inc. gear box. The company existed under this label from 1940 to 1946 when they merged with Precision Products and became Jack and Heintz Precison Products. Thus some of the components are WWII vintage whether home made or factory fabricated. The drive mechanism turns easily with fresh grease in the bearings. I need to tighten the vice on the rails and clean everything for further evaluation. Tom
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Post by jakesrocks on Nov 23, 2012 21:25:50 GMT -5
Actually, Jack & Heintz was in operation well into the 50"s. My old man moved us from Ohio to California in the late 40's, and went to work for them in Riverside, Cal. At that time they were known as Jack & Heinz Scientific Instruments. Amongst other things, they built aircraft parts.
The gear box looks like the box out of one of the 40's/50's top loading washing machines.
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robsrockshop
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Post by robsrockshop on Nov 25, 2012 9:32:58 GMT -5
It's not a commercial unit, it's one of a kind and was built by someone with considerable mechanical skills. Very few saws that of that era used only weldments there are no castings on the machine. That doesn't really matter just wanted to bring up the point that it's not a commercial unit.
I've restored lots of saws, personally I would take out the entire vise assembly first thing you would have to do is pull out the wormfeed and then get every moving part on the vise free moving, oiled and lightly sand the 1" rods, reassemble and try it out with water before painting. No way of telling if it needs to be gravity fed or not till you see if it works. I say use water cause it's just a test run to see if it works and less clean up but drain it and wipe everything dry as soon as your done. If it doesn't have a hood just make an "L" out of a couple 2x4's and clamp one leg to the rear of the saw that will catch most of the spray and waters not gona hurt anything. If you like the way it works then you can fully disassemble it,clean and repaint it. If it's 6.5" from the centerline of the shaft to the bottom of the tank it's a 12" saw. Just random thoughts, it looks well built and def worth your time to work on. Also looks like it has a bolt in front of each pillowblock which is a cool alignment feature. Whoever built that had a fairly good idea what they were doing and I wouldn't be surprised if it works better than you think it's going to. Pretty cool find.
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robsrockshop
has rocks in the head
Member since August 2012
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Post by robsrockshop on Nov 25, 2012 9:37:55 GMT -5
I was assuming the vise won't move along the rails with all the rust, if you can get it to free up with just light sanding and some wd40 or whatever then of course you could just test run it without the xtra step of completely tearing it apart you'll just have to play with it.
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