droseraguy
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Member since April 2012
Posts: 426
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Post by droseraguy on Dec 20, 2012 16:43:44 GMT -5
I'd like to throw the insurance companies under the for profit bus here. If there were a system in place to help without causing the parents to end up in the poor house everyone would benefit.
All the gun/ammo bans in the world will not help the problem if we still don't take care of our own. The whole gun ban argument is just a talking point to garner votes for the wolves that prey on sheep for a living. Chicago's gun ban has not been very effective yet that is all I hear talked about on WVON, the local AM station. How about a ban on mentally ill politicians ? Don't they damage society as well on an even larger scale ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2012 16:48:40 GMT -5
Elvis. So, you think that hundreds, maybe thousands of children killed by alcohol every year is ok. It can definitely be compared to gun killings. The children are dead, It was caused by a scum level human being that has to know that he can kill someone when he is driving drunk.
In all honesty, do you or any of your family drive drunk? I have disowned a brother that drives drunk just about every time he drives. My son very seldom drinks any more and he never drives drunk. He knows that not only will I take his keys I will break them and he is 44 years old.
A dead child is a dead child no matter how much you call it an accident which sometimes it is. But not near as often as an alcohol related wreck (not accident). I wonder why people can now be charged with manslaughter if they cause a deadly wreck while driving and texting?
You hoot loud for prohibition and I will hoot loud for slower guns. Oops, I already hoot for prohibition which has made a lot of enemies for me. We need to go for the cause, not for the means. Jim
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2012 16:52:38 GMT -5
droseraguy, I loved the mentally ill politicians thing. That rocks! Jim
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stillalive
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since May 2011
Posts: 136
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Post by stillalive on Dec 20, 2012 17:22:43 GMT -5
Mental illness affects 1 out every 4 people,at some time in their lives,so does that mean that 1 out of every 4 world leaders are mental?It would seem so-but then you have to think about all of the mentally ill people who vote for these headcases-that is a huge amount of unstable people,then consider the number of people in jail-how many of them should be getting treatment instead of incarceration-how many so called sane people actually get to vote for so called sane politicians? As the numbers diminish,so does the credibility of so called democracy-the less actual real representation real people get,the less reality actually exists-confused?So am I,John.
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Fossilman
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Member since January 2009
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Post by Fossilman on Dec 20, 2012 17:22:44 GMT -5
Jim,I also have disowned a few cousins because of their DUI's and driving drunk all the time!!!! Didn't talk to my father for 12 years because of his DUI driving either!
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Mark K
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Member since April 2012
Posts: 2,600
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Post by Mark K on Dec 20, 2012 17:23:46 GMT -5
One man with a pump shotgun loaded with buckshot could kill many more people than that idiot did. Six magnum rounds of 00 Buckshot would throw 72, .30 caliber projectiles,,,faster than you can unload your 30 round clip of .22 caliber projectiles and 6 magnum rounds of #4 buckshot would throw 204 .24 caliber projectiles,,,faster than you can unload your 30 round clip of .22 caliber projectiles.
No matter what, when bad people want to do bad things, they will. I see it every day at work. Even though the inmates are kept away from weapons, as much as we are able to keep them, they will still make them and use them. Also, if a person wants to kill lotsw of kids, all he has to do is impersonate the health inspector and go into a school and when the opportunity presents itself, pop a little arsenic in the goulash. Presto! 200 dead 6 year olds.
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
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Post by Sabre52 on Dec 20, 2012 17:30:06 GMT -5
I really love that Sam Elliot poster! *L*
Another great quote I heard about guns once went something like " A gun is both a sword and a shield." Again, it's both an offensive and a defensive "tool" . The work done by the tool depends on who uses it, how it is used and for what purpose, good or evil. If a teacher at the site of the shooting back east had been armed and shot the evil intruder would we be having this conversation at all, or rather, would we be praising the brave teacher and his handy gun for defending and saving a bunch of children?...Mel
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fmelvis
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2010
Posts: 235
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Post by fmelvis on Dec 20, 2012 17:32:49 GMT -5
I think we're splitting hairs here mel, but yes I agree that a gun is a deterrent. Because it can kill you.
Your examples are interesting. Chances are, that a 260lbs jailed harden beast who means harm, will probably be packing as well. Chances are also that the beast has used a gun in real life circumstances more that most people, including 90lbs young girls. What I'm saying is that most people ( maybe not in Texas ) would piss themselves before they draw their weapon. Having a gun is no gaurantee you will survive. In fact, you may in turn a petty thief into a double homicide.
Sort of like when a guy takes karate for ten years in the gym, thinks he can know take on the bad ass in the bar. Just because you can pop a few off at the range, doesn't mean you won't crap yourself when the time comes.
Asking a teacher to stand up to a maniac with a gun or assault rifle is no guarantee either. Asking a teacher to be a cop is unfair.
Wampidy, you make valid points. Many things kill children. What killed those 20 kids in Newtown was one very stupid gun owner. Its made a lot of people very emotional and they want something done.
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stillalive
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since May 2011
Posts: 136
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Post by stillalive on Dec 20, 2012 17:33:37 GMT -5
Foxtail-you are obviously a strange dude-number one,you hold the keys to others freedom,number two,you readily talk about how easy it would be to kill children,and give ways to do it!Never set foot on my little island little man,you would not be welcomed,John.
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fmelvis
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2010
Posts: 235
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Post by fmelvis on Dec 20, 2012 17:36:49 GMT -5
Mel, a brave teacher did save the lives of the children in her class, without a gun. That my friend, is brave.
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Post by jakesrocks on Dec 20, 2012 17:39:40 GMT -5
I may have to wash crap out of my drawers, (I doubt it), but I'll be alive and the criminal will be seriously perforated. And I don't play fair. I'll go for a gut shot before a head or chest shot, just to listen to him scream in pain before dieing.
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Post by helens on Dec 20, 2012 17:44:31 GMT -5
geoff, I was trying to say that comparing a gun to household items and cars is silly. I can choke on a tooth pick ( and I'm sure a few people wish I would ). But those things are accidents. Even drunk drivers don't get in a car thinking, yeah, I'm gonna kill someone. When a nutbar gets it into his mind that hes gonna commit mass murder, getting weapons is not a problem. Even that guy seeing a shrink in colorado had no problems getting a weapon. If we can find out in seconds what your fico score is, there must be a way to have a don't sell the crazy an assault rifle warning. If it takes a week or a month, who cares? Responsible gun retailers are a must. Elvis, no one sold that crazy an assault rifle... he killed his own mother and broke into her gun collection. She did not give them to him. He could have killed a neighbor and broke into their gun collection instead. As I recall, some of the other mass school killings were by kids under 18... you cannot buy a gun in the US under the age of 18. They are using stolen weapons, no amount of gun checking will prevent them from getting stolen guns, buying them used (or stolen), or at a gun show from a disreputable dealer. Gun restrictions would prevent law abiding citizens from their ability to protect themselves from these thieves and crazies. And I've read nearly as many stories of heroes, particularly here in Florida where we have the most lax gun laws in the nation, to save lives. The fact that people going to 7-11 may have weapons in their car have prevented robberies, and possibly murder. While household items may have other uses, and guns do not, so what? The fact is, you can still use them to kill. In reality, a screwdriver is far more lethal than a knife. Guns ARE designed to kill. That why people buy them. They aren't always used to kill, they give a sense of security. A 90 lb grandmother can feel safe in her home and sleep better at night because she believes a 300 man cannot come and hurt her. Maybe a gun WOULD NOT help her if one did, but the years of sleeping well from believing it is priceless peace of mind you think should be taken away? She will never kill anyone... why would you want to take her peace of mind?
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fmelvis
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2010
Posts: 235
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Post by fmelvis on Dec 20, 2012 17:48:26 GMT -5
why don't you protect yourself with a screw driver then?
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Post by geoff on Dec 20, 2012 17:50:05 GMT -5
Whoa now Helen. You are forgetting Alaska. WE have the most lax gun laws :-P
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
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Post by Sabre52 on Dec 20, 2012 17:57:08 GMT -5
Elvis: Exactly. But it does not have to kill and can not kill by itself. It does, by itself when held in view, have a really fine scare effect. *L*
*L* Again, your comment about criminals and guns shows your ignorance on the issue. Studies have actually been done and the average gun toting criminal shoots a gun very seldom. Criminals do not spend a lot of time at the practice range. Most folks who buy guns for self defense spend a lot of time shooting to grow familiar with their piece and most shoot hundreds of rounds while studies have shown criminals shoot a mere handful of rounds a year. CCW holders shoot and practice even more because they are held to a higher level of responsibility. I do agree with you though, that if you're not going to practice enough to know your gun and are not committed enough to use one in a pinch and instead crap yourself, you should not have one. *L* I know a lot of shooters and I don't know of any, man or woman that would crap themselves rather than use their guns, but then they're not big city Canadians. Maybe the folks you know are much different. They do make special underwear for that you know. Are Depends a big selling item in Toronto? *L*
Teacher's might not feel the way you do if they thought they might be saving their own lives in addition to the children. Yes, they should not be forced to be cops but yes also if they wanted to carry for defensive purposes.. They should not be forced to face an evil doer empty handed, as in your example, if they do not want to.....Mel
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Post by helens on Dec 20, 2012 17:57:15 GMT -5
Elvis, because screw drivers have no RANGE. The average elderly person does not have the physical strength to drive a screwdriver (or even a knife) through a piece of leather, which is roughly the amount of pressure required.
Stopping an angry assailant that outweighs you by 200 lbs is not as simple as carving a roast, not the least reason being that when adrenaline is fully kicked in, they could feel no pain without something incapacitating.
Ok, Alaska and Texas also have pretty lax gun laws:P.
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Post by helens on Dec 20, 2012 18:01:59 GMT -5
Mel, a brave teacher did save the lives of the children in her class, without a gun. That my friend, is brave. Yes she was. What a beautiful brave lady, may she rest in peace. But if she were armed, she may have saved the children who died's lives too. Although, I don't agree with arming teachers. They bend over to help a child, their gun gets grabbed, and someone gets hurt. I think that security guards should be armed tho, and perhaps schools should have some.
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Dec 20, 2012 18:04:21 GMT -5
Elvis. Haven't you ever heard, " Never bring a screwdriver to a gun fight"? *L* Now you're just being silly cause if you did, you'd be screwed all right. The whole point of owning a firearm is to tilt the playing field in your direction. Eighty year old feeble granny against 250lb criminal with a screwdriver= no contest. Same thing with the eighty year old granny holding a high capacity 9mm she's practiced with, I'd take granny three to one and a lot of cases just like this are documented in the newspapers......Mel
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stillalive
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since May 2011
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Post by stillalive on Dec 20, 2012 18:10:56 GMT -5
Apologies to all-a very emotional subject-I bow out and exit stage left,hopefully i didn't offend anybody too much,John.
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fmelvis
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2010
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Post by fmelvis on Dec 20, 2012 18:14:13 GMT -5
Yes I was being silly, don't shoot! Yes mel, we Torontonians have special anti gun depends we wear, just in case.
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