Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 3, 2013 22:56:03 GMT -5
Kev: I know where you are coming from. I was burglarized once and it does make you feel violated. Lived in a real nice southern California neighborhood until the guy in back of me started cooking meth and coke dealers moved in with their attendant pit bulls and drive by shootings. Illegal Mexican day laborers would look for work and if they didn't find it, ride around the neighborhood in broad daylight doing break ins. That was only one of the reasons I sold out and left Commiefornia. I would never shoot someone unless I did intend to kill but again, one does have to live with the results of his actions so for me, there would have to be an implied threat to me or mine after which like you said, things would get wet real fast.
Ammo cupboards are bare around here too except for real expensive high end ammo and all my favorite mail order guys are back ordered for months. All the guns were sold out for awhile but man they restock pretty fast here in Texas. Was in my favorite shop Wednesday and they were already pretty well restocked, though a little low on AR type shooters. After all the government had 2.8 million background checks on new gun purchases last month. Pretty hard for anyone to keep up with that kind of sales...Mel
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bushmanbilly
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Post by bushmanbilly on Jan 4, 2013 0:02:19 GMT -5
After all the government had 2.8 million background checks on new gun purchases last month.
You would think Dems would be happy. Look at all the extra government jobs that are being created to process the extra checks. Are guns taxed? What percentage are American made?
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 4, 2013 10:45:21 GMT -5
Billy: No special tax on guns in Texas other than sales tax. If you mail order a gun into your dealers, I think there might be some kind of transfer fee involved to cover paperwork. A fair percentage of guns are totally American made and all the big companies have an American distributor where they handle service while some assemble here from foreign made parts. If you think of it, guns are kind of a cool piece of machinery. Because of their purpose, they tend to be very reliable and many last for a hundred years or more. Heck I've seen folks shooting pieces that are a 150 years old. Can't say that about too many gizmos with moving parts....Mel
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 11:43:35 GMT -5
Obviously, everyone knows my opinion on the second amendment. I just thought this was pretty ironic. Isn't this the very definition of irony? Mel from Yuma & Spokane, et al; With respect to taxes. The Pittman-Robertson act of 1937 levies a 10-11% excise tax on all hunting and fishing products. This is paid at the manufacturer level. This excise tax was put in place by hunters and fisherman as a way to fund federal spending for conservation of the wildlife we love to hunt and fish. You can read more about it here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittman%E2%80%93Robertson_Federal_Aid_in_Wildlife_Restoration_Act
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jan 4, 2013 12:24:51 GMT -5
Aww, he's just getting down with his homey, special shake and all that jive. Would have liked to have seen a video of the entire encounter.
Shhhh - don't give 'em any ideas! They'll start adding taxes at the CONSUMER level. Just like they did to make cigarettes unaffordable. Jean
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fmelvis
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2010
Posts: 235
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Post by fmelvis on Jan 4, 2013 14:00:10 GMT -5
Murder stats for 2011,
Huston pop-2,100,000 195 murders Toronto pop 2,600,000 45 murders
Miami pop 408,750 68 murders Vancouver 578,000 15 murders
Dallas pop 1,223,000 133 murders montreal pop 1,600,000 35 murders
London pop 8,174,000 125 murders Los angeles pop 3,800,000 297 murders
clearly, a population with guns keep everyone safer....because you know...guns deter.....
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LarryS
freely admits to licking rocks
SoCal desert rats
Member since August 2010
Posts: 781
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Post by LarryS on Jan 4, 2013 14:48:18 GMT -5
No fmelvis, you're leaving out one minor detail. USA has a major gang banger problem and they all pack guns. Daily you read in the local newspapers where they arrest these guys, who most are already felons on probation and they have illegal guns. They're not registered. And the jails are so full, they're back out on the streets buying illegal guns to shoot their rival gangs. Our government doesn't enforce current laws. Jails are revolving doors. It's getting worse daily and our police can't control it. Normal citizens are almost required to buy guns to protect themselves.
10 years ago our little town 90 miles east of Los Angeles didn't have one single gang. Currently I think there's 25 known gangs in our valley? We use to be able to go shopping at night at our local Wal Mart. We won't today. Home invasion robberies are common now. Armed robberies daily. All the local police are on administrative leave because of shootings. Running out of cops!
I get so sick and tired of people complaining about our guns. That isn't the problem. Our society and government is falling apart at the seams. Oh, don't forget the Mexican drug cartels that are operating in our states and are out of control. How many of these murders committed by them? How about Chicago with their gun laws? Over 500 murders? The bad guys will always be armed no matter what gun laws you have in place.
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fmelvis
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2010
Posts: 235
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Post by fmelvis on Jan 4, 2013 15:11:00 GMT -5
Hey Larry, I am not complaining about your gun laws. Alot of the murders in toronto are also gang related.
It was discussed that knowing that most people are armed will deter crime. Even with robbery, stats show that in 2011, there were about 28,000 robberies in texas. There were about 29,000 in all of canada. Clearly, having almost everyone armed in texas is no deterance.
I'm not trying to piss anyone off, just having a discussion.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 4, 2013 15:16:27 GMT -5
Elvis: Man, life must be so boring in Canada. But then as Larry said, Canada is nothing like American socially. How do you guys compare as far as crime in general goes? Burglaries, robberies, mugginss, stabbings, sexual assaults etc. It should also be noted that depending on who does the statistics, defensive shootings in the US are sometimes counted as deaths by gun as are cop on criminal shootings or even suicides or accidents. I'm assuming you are quoting stats just for murder and not for firearms deaths. You guys are sort of like American in the 1950's. Give it awhile. he gangs will eventually get to you guys too and then you too can live an interesting life. Admittedly, the US has a violent population and a whole lot of criminals and ain't as safe as Canada but then, that's why we "need" our guns and why you as yet, do not. Wait till your crime catches up. Then, you guys will be crying for a means of self defense against it.....Mel
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brent
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2008
Posts: 1,316
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Post by brent on Jan 4, 2013 21:27:42 GMT -5
I took a couple minutes and came up with this from a .gov website.
Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home. Kellermann AL, Somes G, Rivara FP, Lee RK, Banton JG. SourceCenter for Injury Control, Rollins School of Public Health, Emory University, Atlanta, GA, USA.
Abstract OBJECTIVE: Determine the relative frequency with which guns in the home are used to injure or kill in self-defense, compared with the number of times these weapons are involved in an unintentional injury, suicide attempt, or criminal assault or homicide.
METHODS: We reviewed the police, medical examiner, emergency medical service, emergency department, and hospital records of all fatal and nonfatal shootings in three U.S. cities: Memphis, Tennessee; Seattle, Washington; and Galveston, Texas.
RESULTS: During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
CONCLUSIONS: Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.
Doesn't look like too many people are defending themselves considering 50% of all households in the U.S. have gun owners.
Just as a tidbit of info, in Canada 25% ov individuals own guns. Oh, and I do own a gun that I have never used(an old single shot .22). Actually I haven't shot a gun in almost 20 years.
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Post by gingerkid on Jan 4, 2013 21:36:37 GMT -5
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 4, 2013 23:04:05 GMT -5
Interesting stats, Brent, but irrelevent to the argument. In the overwhelming majority of cases where legally owned guns are used in defense they are not fired. According to FBI statistics it works out to like 1% of self defense instances where they are fired and someone is injured or killed. So attach that to your statistics, then add the cases where the firearm is fired but no one is hit and you have the real stats. Around 25-50:1 in favor of legally kept arms.
Lee
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 4, 2013 23:09:19 GMT -5
I have a personal story of an instance where the threat of me having a firearm on me (I didn't) caused a group of individuals to decide it wasn't worth the chance. Saved me from robbery, injury and possibly death
Lee
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 4, 2013 23:53:23 GMT -5
Lets talk about crime in Switzerland, with all them evil guns.
Lee
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 5, 2013 0:11:21 GMT -5
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 5, 2013 1:03:35 GMT -5
Brent, As I've noted previously in the posts, the Journal of Criminal Law states DGU's ( Defensive Gun Uses) in the US run about 2.5 million per year now. You can check those stats if you like. And those, in all probability, are only those they know about. Heck, I've had at least three DGU's myself over the years, never had to shoot the gun and never of course had it reported. Obviously, firearms are effective for self defense , if just for the intimidation factor. The problem with statistics is they seldom paint the entire picture. That being said, I'm all for better firearms training and locking and storing firearms properly which, I'm sure, would cut accidents, gun theft, child access, and many suicides .....Mel
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brent
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by brent on Jan 5, 2013 6:14:27 GMT -5
Mel, I think firearms training is a must. People here need to take a course here before they can buy a gun. I also agree statistics can be spun the way you want them to look, but they are interesting. Proper storeage is a great idea, and is mandatory here, but that makes your ability to defend yourself alot harder.
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 5, 2013 10:07:11 GMT -5
Brent: Judging from some of the folks I've had to give a talking to regarding gun safety at the range, I'd totally agree gun training should be a requirement of buying a firearm. Not so much here in Texas, but I've seen folks looking down the barrel of a loaded jammed gun and actually trying to pull the trigger, heard folks claiming a semi-auto was unloaded when I could see they still had one in the pipe and had just removed the clip and way too many instances of folks pointing their weapon the wrong way at me, which really makes me nervous.
In families with children, storing your defensive weapon so it's handy is very difficult. A push buttton bedside safe is about the only thing that works in my book and even then, you have to guard the combination. The best answer to that problem is to train your kids not to touch firearms without adult supervision. That's what my dad did with me but these days kids are not always very well parented or so well behaved. I have a CCW license but even though we have no kids in the house, when not on my person, my weapons are locked in a safe......Mel
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grayfingers
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Post by grayfingers on Jan 6, 2013 11:49:47 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2013 13:05:58 GMT -5
I do not understand how suicides figure into any of this. I believe that everyone has the right to end their life and a firearm is the easiest way to get it done without becoming an invalid or becoming a vegie that the government has to support. I am not including children but young adults if they are terminal should have the choice. Either that or a self injection provided by an MD (Kavorkian)
Suffering sucks. When the time comes for me a firearm will be my choice. Jim
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