jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Nov 17, 2014 19:19:17 GMT -5
Thank you fantastic5 for putting me on this Craig's list listing. It was 50 miles away from me.
It had a problem. There are 4 eccentrics on the vibration generating shaft. Two on each side. The outside two are adjustable for varying barrel sizes and materials. Well, it did not 'roll' on one side. Taking it apart I noticed one of the inside 'fixed' eccentrics had been moved. So I removed the two fixed eccentrics and noticed one of them had two marks on the shaft from the set screw. So I moved the one back to where the other set screw mark was. That made the reference notches line up. Presto, the glass was 'rolling' equally from left to right. The same reference marks on the fixed eccentrics are used as a pointer to rotate the adjustable eccentrics. The adjustable eccentrics have a scale on them going 0-5, 5 being max vibration and 0 being zero vibration. This model came with the peculiar 8 pound barrel. Max settings were as follows 1.2 for 8# 1.4 for 12# 1.6 for 14# 2.0 for 35# Settings for 50 pound barrel not stated.
I set the eccentrics at 1.0, close to max of 1.2 for the 8 pound barrel. May be too violent. Opinions ??
Eccentrics are cast iron so the set screws were not rusted tight. Wire brushed the slight rust so the scale could be read. Greased the Browning pillar blocks. New o-rings for the double shafted 3450 RPM 1/3 HP motor. It runs two belts,cool. Most of the fasteners are high grade hardened star head bolts, guessing they have substantial torque. Motor may have a dry bearing, and one Browning pillar block had a slight play in it. All sounded good running. It screams, but not overly noisy.
The glass did not start rolling for a minute or two after turning on, and as the glass roll picked up speed the motor speed increased. That slow start confused me. Turn it off and restart, the roll begins quickly, guess it was a positioning issue.
This first video is probably overly wet at 2/3 water level. Opinoins ??
This video was much dryer at about 1/6 water level
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Post by MrP on Nov 17, 2014 19:57:17 GMT -5
James
I run mine just like my UV-18, very little water. Glad to see you have it going. I put new bearings on mine when I got it, but that is all I had to do. I find that if I haven't run it in a while it does start slow. Good luck..................MrP
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Nov 17, 2014 20:01:30 GMT -5
thanks MrP. Those bearings see some duty. It is a sweet machine. May make a spare barrel out of the 6 inch PVC.
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bhiatt
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since July 2012
Posts: 1,532
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Post by bhiatt on Nov 17, 2014 23:31:49 GMT -5
Ive never seen a tumbler like that. Nice how you can see the material at work. Might be a dumb question but can you tumble agate and such in there?
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,341
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Post by quartz on Nov 18, 2014 0:02:50 GMT -5
I've never seen one of these, runs like a rotary w/no barrel. Be interesting to see what you can do with it. Larry
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Nov 18, 2014 4:32:52 GMT -5
Ive never seen a tumbler like that. Nice how you can see the material at work. Might be a dumb question but can you tumble agate and such in there? Oh yes Brad. Anything you want to tumble as long as a balance of sizes are put in the barrel. It has a cap that goes over it to keep the moisture from evaporating. It is really best for fine grits to make a polish.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Nov 18, 2014 5:06:22 GMT -5
I've never seen one of these, runs like a rotary w/no barrel. Be interesting to see what you can do with it. Larry The vibrations are created by eccentrics on a shaft about 15 inches long parallel to the pipe shaped barrel. So the rotary motion. The bowl shaped vibes have a donut shaped motion, like a pipe bent 360 degrees. Bet you could build one of these Larry. Because different 'pipe' shaped barrels can be used, and the eccentrics adjustable for various hoppers. The heart of it is the driven shaft with the eccentrics on it. driven by stretchy o-rings to allow the vibration to go thru the o-rings. the eccentrics are dead simple. Take 4 round discs about 2 inches in diameter and 1/2 inch thick. Drill holes in all 4 off center. Mount two on each end of 1/2" shaft supported by pillar blocks and small sheaves just inboard from the eccentrics. All 4 eccentrics held on by set screws. Two eccentric weights on inside mounted fixed, outside eccentrics rotated and clamped for varying vibration. Zero vibration when eccentrics are exactly opposite each other. Barrel and eccentric shaft all sitting on a plate that sits on springs. Motor in base, fixed. so top section connected to bottom section by 4 springs and 2 o-ring pulleys. Certainly everything is tuned, so reproduction may be a lot of trial and error. I am sure a vibrations engineer did some nasty calculations. No different than a donut vibe, just a pipe shaped motion. Really a one dimensional vibe, a donut is two dimensional. So they are able to change the barrel sizes easier because it is one dimension vibration. It is a vibrating machine and a 3450 motor, so all the fasteners are spastic weird high torque bolts to resist coming loose on the eccentric shaft.
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Post by captbob on Nov 18, 2014 9:00:47 GMT -5
Hey James, sometime when you're fiddlin' with this thing, could you take a picture of the guts? I'm trying to picture this shaft / eccentrics configuration and keep coming up with something like a cam shaft which I'm guessing ain't quite right.
Nice videos of the vibe action!
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Nov 18, 2014 9:12:26 GMT -5
Hey James, sometime when you're fiddlin' with this thing, could you take a picture of the guts? I'm trying to picture this shaft / eccentrics configuration and keep coming up with something like a cam shaft which I'm guessing ain't quite right. Nice videos of the vibe action! Here is the wiring diagram captbob(just kidding). Yes, planning on taking photos of guts anyway. Are you planning on building one ? I may not build one but will definitely attempt a barrel. The shaft is hard to explain but simple in a photo.
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Post by captbob on Nov 18, 2014 9:25:57 GMT -5
Are you planning on building one ? No, I haven't yet been lured to the Dark Side. Just find it interesting.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Nov 18, 2014 11:12:44 GMT -5
Nice machine. I think your going to like using it.
Probably like any other vibe as far as water. Material just wet enough to allow grit to stick. Shouldn't be water or slurry on the bottom of the bowl. When action slows add a small amount of water until it's going good again.
What you gunna run first?
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Post by captbob on Nov 18, 2014 11:15:30 GMT -5
Do different hardnesses of an assorted batch matter in a vibe like in a rotary?
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Post by connrock on Nov 18, 2014 11:21:41 GMT -5
That thing is AWESOME James!
After using rotary tumbler for years it's hard to understand that the vibes only need very little water to work correctly and efficiently. You only want enough water to make the grit stick to the rocks and have a nice "slurry".What I mean by "slurry" is that the rocks/grit should not be dry but have a wet look as the go around the barrel. What I suggest is that when you start a load keep the rocks dry,,,put them into the barrel and spray water on the rocks until the are wet and no more.Add just a tad (1 teaspoon) of powdered soap and spray water until you see the soap has dissolved and is making a "bubbly" film between the rocks as they go around the barrel. Patience is in order when adding water to a load so spray a few times and wait to see what happens as the rocks go around the barrel. If you don't want to try the soap thing,,,just do the same thing but use grit,,,,,slowly,,,don't just dump it in but rather sprinkle it on the rocks as they go around the barrel using a tablespoon,,,note how full the tablespoon of grit is for future reference. Add grit,,,let rocks rotate,,,,spray water,,,,add grit,,,let rocks rotate,,,spray water,,,a little adjustment at a time until you KNOW how much grit/water you need for any given load.
Using too much water in a vibe washes the grit off of the rocks and the grit sinks to the bottom of the barrel which will cause the bottom of the barrel to wear out fairly fast.
Although I have used grit as coarse as 60/90 in my vibe (only) a few times I don't recommend using anything more coarse then 120/220 or graded 220 grit.This too causes premature barrel failure.
I'm pretty excited seeing you using a vibe now and I think the hardest thing is to keep up with it! LOL
Good luck and have a blast with your new toy! connrock
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Post by connrock on Nov 18, 2014 11:25:20 GMT -5
captbob,,, Yes definitely. Mixing hard and soft rocks in a vibe is the same as mixing them in a rotary. Not a good idea! LOL connrock
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Nov 18, 2014 11:29:45 GMT -5
Nice machine. I think your going to like using it. Probably like any other vibe as far as water. Material just wet enough to allow grit to stick. Shouldn't be water or slurry on the bottom of the bowl. When action slows add a small amount of water until it's going good again. What you gunna run first? thanks tk. I think I am a little on the wet side. But the 1000 did coat the rocks. I see what you are saying, just wet enough for grit to stick. Uh, I put some coral that had a rotary polish on it. Mixed sizes, good mix. Added about 30% small tumbled glass chips to finish filling barrel. Threw a couple of obsidians in there, just to see what happens. They were duds, to practice on. Funny, the rocks just sit there for almost 5 minutes and hardly move. They slowly start making a hill to one side, and then start rolling. after about a minute they are rolling at full speed and the motor speeds up as they roll faster. Obviously less friction when they roll. Makes sense. Curious if that AO 1000 will break down enough for a nice polish, what do you think ?
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Nov 18, 2014 11:45:09 GMT -5
That thing is AWESOME James! After using rotary tumbler for years it's hard to understand that the vibes only need very little water to work correctly and efficiently. You only want enough water to make the grit stick to the rocks and have a nice "slurry".What I mean by "slurry" is that the rocks/grit should not be dry but have a wet look as the go around the barrel. What I suggest is that when you start a load keep the rocks dry,,,put them into the barrel and spray water on the rocks until the are wet and no more.Add just a tad (1 teaspoon) of powdered soap and spray water until you see the soap has dissolved and is making a "bubbly" film between the rocks as they go around the barrel. Patience is in order when adding water to a load so spray a few times and wait to see what happens as the rocks go around the barrel. If you don't want to try the soap thing,,,just do the same thing but use grit,,,,,slowly,,,don't just dump it in but rather sprinkle it on the rocks as they go around the barrel using a tablespoon,,,note how full the tablespoon of grit is for future reference. Add grit,,,let rocks rotate,,,,spray water,,,,add grit,,,let rocks rotate,,,spray water,,,a little adjustment at a time until you KNOW how much grit/water you need for any given load. Using too much water in a vibe washes the grit off of the rocks and the grit sinks to the bottom of the barrel which will cause the bottom of the barrel to wear out fairly fast. Although I have used grit as coarse as 60/90 in my vibe (only) a few times I don't recommend using anything more coarse then 120/220 or graded 220 grit.This too causes premature barrel failure. I'm pretty excited seeing you using a vibe now and I think the hardest thing is to keep up with it! LOL Good luck and have a blast with your new toy! connrock Thanks for this info. I see why you guys worry about washing the grit off. I did have enough sense to sprinkle the AO 1000 on slow. And the tip about wearing the bottom of the barrel. This vibe will never see coarse grit or 220. Got rotaries to do that stuff. Been lazy by using the rotaries. But it is easy to use this machine. I like having fast results and continually feeding it. Guessing it will keep up with finishing 35,25 and 15 pound barrels doing coarse and 220 easily. Ya think ? What AO grits do I need starting with a good 220 finish from the rotaries ?? AO 500 and AO 1000 ? Oh yea, tripoli for obsidian ?
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Nov 18, 2014 11:47:08 GMT -5
Curious if that AO 1000 will break down enough for a nice polish, what do you think ? I think it is certainly possible. I have only run 1000 in my thumlers once and I got a shine although not like a polish. I have seen some pics from Drummond Island Rocks. Stuff coming out of his Lot-O with 500 AO and its very shiny.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Nov 18, 2014 12:47:12 GMT -5
Hey James, sometime when you're fiddlin' with this thing, could you take a picture of the guts? I'm trying to picture this shaft / eccentrics configuration and keep coming up with something like a cam shaft which I'm guessing ain't quite right. Nice videos of the vibe action! Base with motor Top vibratory table with barrel removed upside down Whole tumbler turned upside down with barrel removed Unit with barrel removed Side view of eccentric set on 1.0. Front eccentric adjustable by set screw, rear one fixed. Another view of eccentric lined up on 1.0. If lined up with zero(at set screw), zero vibration occurs.
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Post by captbob on Nov 18, 2014 13:31:19 GMT -5
Okay and thank you. I'm starting to get a grasp on this (maybe). The top of the machine (the deck) is what vibrates and this is caused by the off-set weights (eccentrics) on that shaft turning at a high speed? Does look kinda like a cam shaft. You wrote on the previous page: The heart of it is the driven shaft with the eccentrics on it. driven by stretchy o-rings to allow the vibration to go thru the o-rings. If my above observation is close to correct, why would they want the vibrations to go through the o-rings? Wouldn't that carry the vibrations back to the motor (which it seems wouldn't be a good thing)? Or, do the belts (o-rings) act as a dampener to lessen the vibrations returning to the motor shafts? It must be some pretty violent vibrating action coming off that shaft for such heavy loads to be possible. Or, maybe I'm not following this correctly yet
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stonemaster499
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since July 2014
Posts: 97
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Post by stonemaster499 on Nov 18, 2014 14:34:01 GMT -5
Hi James. I have the 30# model from 1972. We used it dedicated for polishing freeform shapes and cabs 15 years ago. The action on mine is about 75% slower than yours (likely due to the VPM setting you have it selected on) There should be dial at the bottom. These machines are "old school", and demonstrate the "vertical" vibratory design. I have 300# one's made in Brazil that must have knocked off and improved on that Viking design. Apart from the solid steel design; the 2nd best feature is the 1cm thick rubber liner!!!! They last forever, compared to the cheap plastic bowls we go through each year on a T%&mler. Best part is the control you have with the speed dial. You don't have to play with additives in your slurry as much. It's a tank. Today's tumblers cannot adjust and destroy your rocks. The manufacturers want to sell more machines, and remove the variables that make tumbling fun/ Oh, its pain in the butt to clean. I would grab an alternate polish bowl that works. Edward. E Smith created that machine, the Viking line (bought and today sold by Diamond Pacific) along with gemstone "dry polishes" and wrote a great book I just read called "How to tumble polish rocks into gems - Secrets of the pros revealed. 3rd Edition. This book is perfect for Tumbling Experts, (IMO) and written for YOUR machine. The book claims anyone can read it and go...
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