tropidale
starting to shine!
Member since October 2016
Posts: 46
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Post by tropidale on Jan 1, 2017 13:35:57 GMT -5
Happy New Year everyone, I just got a new vibe for Christmas for the purpose of shining up my cabs more quickly and better than I can do myself. Had only one aborted attempt to get the right action and slurry formed in the first stage so I consider that success. I only did one day in 120-220 since the cabs I put in were mostly shaped and smoothed. Rinsing after 120-220 appears to have gone well. I did the 15 minutes with borax and a little dish soap. Seems to have done its job. I have had the cabs (with ceramic filler) in 500 for almost 24 hours and decided to fish out a few to see how they look. Wet they looked gorgeous and most felt super smooth. But dried off, they are not at all shiny, very dull. (although still very smooth and nicely shaped, no cracks or undercuts) Under magnification I don't see anything obvious like scratches, but then, I have a novice eye. Is dull normal for 500 grit, or should they be pretty shiny before going to polish? I'll leave them in 500 for another day, but would love some advice on how they should look before they go to polish.
Also, should I rinse and add fresh 500 or just keep going with the same?
Sorry to ask what has probably been answered a gazillion times, but so many different instructions have started jumbling together and it is a bit confusing.
Thanks,
Dale
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 1, 2017 14:44:23 GMT -5
The reason for leaving them in 120/220 longer then 48 hours is so the transition to 500 is not as steep. The grit breaks down as time goes on so at the end of 48 hours in 120/220 you are really running at about 500 grit. Leaving them in 500 for 48 hours serves the same purpose. Should be really shiny after 500 in a vibe. See link below forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/68676/shiny-after-500-grit?page=1Chuck
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 1, 2017 14:46:49 GMT -5
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tropidale
starting to shine!
Member since October 2016
Posts: 46
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Post by tropidale on Jan 1, 2017 15:51:46 GMT -5
Thanks for your response, Chuck. I guess, like many newbs, I need to relax and wait for the process to work. Guess I'll get the flat lap cranked up for a distraction....
I'll try to post results if I get something I am happy with. By the way, Santa got me an extra bowl for polish only.
Thanks again,
Dale
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 1, 2017 16:03:55 GMT -5
I only tumble polish the really hard and solid cabs like agates and jaspers. Stay away from tumbling softer cabs and varied hardness cabs.
Chuck
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Jan 2, 2017 5:01:30 GMT -5
Are you using aluminum oxide 500 or silicon carbide 500 ?
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tropidale
starting to shine!
Member since October 2016
Posts: 46
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Post by tropidale on Jan 2, 2017 9:06:51 GMT -5
I am using the AO500 that comes in the vibe kit from Rock Shed.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jan 2, 2017 9:16:49 GMT -5
Listen to Chuck's advice, he knows what he's talking about.
I have a couple other questions. This is your first time, so I wonder if you broke n your ceramic media before using it. You should run just the ceramics in 120/200 grit for a couple of days to wear off the sharp corners before using them with rock.
How much water are you using? I fill my Lot-O barrel with water and then drain it all out so the rocks and ceramic are wet, but there is no water setting on the bottom. I also add a tablespoon of borax (in a 4.5 lb barrel) starting in the 500 stage. No need for it with 120/220.
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tropidale
starting to shine!
Member since October 2016
Posts: 46
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Post by tropidale on Jan 2, 2017 9:58:36 GMT -5
Hmmmm.... I was not aware that the ceramic pellets needed to be pre-run. That wasn't in any instructions. I guess they are broken in now, eh? I have the Ultra vibe but also used the 'wet rocks only' process that you describe for your Lot-O and it seems to have worked well for both 120-220 and 500 as far as coating the rocks nicely. I do give it a spritz every few hours but not to the level of leaving any liquid in the bottom. And the rocks remain coated after a few seconds. Does that sound right?
I just checked them again today and there doesn't seem to be much improvement. Still very shiny when wet but dull when dried. Should I leave them to run in the existing 500 or rinse and add fresh?
Chuck, I tried to test for hardness on some of the unknown rocks, and I think I have everything between 6-8. Jasper, agate, rose quartz, agatized coral, some serpentine, (I think) and a few unknowns that seemed to pass the scratch test. All appear to have a similar level of appearance and I only took out two that didn't seem to be keeping up with the rest.
Based on the blazing speed of the Lot-O perhaps I should be planning several extra days for the Ultra. Patience is not my strong suit. And I was also trying to beat the clock for results before my extended Christmas vacation ends tomorrow.... I think I set myself up to fail, huh?
The good news is that I have at least gotten comfortable with the running of the tumbler, and achieved rock coverage with the grit. I feel good about that. I think I just need to slow down and let the different levels work until they are done working.
Thanks to both of you for the guidance.
Dale
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jan 2, 2017 10:38:23 GMT -5
It sounds like you're doing well with the water. I'm not sure that the Lot-O works any faster than your Thumler's. I was under the impression that they worked about the same. I think the probes is with your 120/220 stage and the new ceramics. Are the corners of your ceramics nice and smooth now? My ceramics have been used many times and are shiny, but that's because they've been through all the stages. I'd go back and do two days with the broken in ceramics and 120/220 grit. Then, after a thorough rinsing, I'd do two days in 500.
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tropidale
starting to shine!
Member since October 2016
Posts: 46
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Post by tropidale on Jan 2, 2017 10:46:11 GMT -5
Thanks, Rob. It is probably the best way to go.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Jan 2, 2017 10:55:05 GMT -5
I run a UV18 and my progression is a little different. 220 sic for 48 hours. 600 sic for 48 hours. 1000 AO for 72 hours then polish for 72 hours.
I will be switching the 600 sic to 500 AO when I run out based on results others here get with the 500.
To the point ... I always run mixed batches and in the prepolish (AO 1000) not all the rocks start to shine at the same rate. The hardest usually have some sort of shine day two. The rest usually shine up day three. I once did a batch of jaspers that refused to take a shine in the 1000, even with an extra day. They could be described as having a satin finish I think. They came out mirror shiny in the polish however. Maybe its a Thumlers thing.
Thumlers says to fill the bowl 3/4 full. In my bowl that's just above the blue ring around the outside. First couple times I ran the machine that way with mixed results. Based on tips from here on the board I now fill to the level of the top of the cone with better results. Fuller is better.
I know you said your happy with your grit coverage but you MIGHT need to experiment there a little too. Thumlers instructions call for what I would call an excessive amount of grit. For my 18 I have arrived at these numbers, 8 tbs. 220, and 2 tbs. for all finer grits and polishes. It would seem that less is more.
I also use a thickener in the finer grits and polish. No need in the 220 as it makes a thick slurry. Borax will work and it should take only a small amount. I used to use 2 tbs. in my 18 so I'm thinking a couple tsp. would work in the MB10. I don't use borax any longer as it, much like polish, can be hard to clean out of a flaw if it dries there. I use psyllium fiber these days (yep that's metamusil) it's a bit tricky to use but has many advantages.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jan 2, 2017 11:05:24 GMT -5
I run a UV18 and my progression is a little different. 220 sic for 48 hours. 600 sic for 48 hours. 1000 AO for 72 hours then polish for 72 hours. I will be switching the 600 sic to 500 AO when I run out based on results others here get with the 500. To the point ... I always run mixed batches and in the prepolish (AO 1000) not all the rocks start to shine at the same rate. The hardest usually have some sort of shine day two. The rest usually shine up day three. I once did a batch of jaspers that refused to take a shine in the 1000, even with an extra day. They could be described as having a satin finish I think. They came out mirror shiny in the polish however. Maybe its a Thumlers thing. Thumlers says to fill the bowl 3/4 full. In my bowl that's just above the blue ring around the outside. First couple times I ran the machine that way with mixed results. Based on tips from here on the board I now fill to the level of the top of the cone with better results. Fuller is better. I know you said your happy with your grit coverage but you MIGHT need to experiment there a little too. Thumlers instructions call for what I would call an excessive amount of grit. For my 18 I have arrived at these numbers, 8 tbs. 220, and 2 tbs. for all finer grits and polishes. It would seem that less is more. I also use a thickener in the finer grits and polish. No need in the 220 as it makes a thick slurry. Borax will work and it should take only a small amount. I used to use 2 tbs. in my 18 so I'm thinking a couple tsp. would work in the MB10. I don't use borax any longer as it, much like polish, can be hard to clean out of a flaw if it dries there. I use psyllium fiber these days (yep that's metamusil) it's a bit tricky to use but has many advantages. That's interesting, Ken. I get a very good shine after 2 days in 500 AO. I wonder if the difference is the AO vs SC or the Lot-O vs the Thumler's. My guess is that the grit type matters more. I'd love to know what you find out when you switch.
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tropidale
starting to shine!
Member since October 2016
Posts: 46
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Post by tropidale on Jan 2, 2017 11:25:46 GMT -5
Thanks for the additional info, Ken and all. It's quite clear that I need to spend more time in each grit. I just cleaned out and restarted in 220. Ceramic is smooth now, but I also realized that I had thrown in some very rough agatized coral with my formed cabs, that probably didn't help. They smoothed a lot along with the rest of the batch, but there were still a lot of sharp angled pieces that I have discarded now for the restart.
The other problem is that I have the bowl filled just barely to the blue line. I was expecting the MB to be a much smaller bowl, and struggled to come up with enough volume with confidence in similar hardness. I need to place an urgent order for more filler, pronto!
Will report progress later this week.
Thanks again,
Dale
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Jan 2, 2017 11:52:47 GMT -5
That's interesting, Ken. I get a very good shine after 2 days in 500 AO. I wonder if the difference is the AO vs SC or the Lot-O vs the Thumler's. My guess is that the grit type matters more. I'd love to know what you find out when you switch. I think it's grit type as well. It takes me a while to get enough for the 18 so it'll be a couple three months before I try the AO. Only ever got a shine of any kind out of the 600 sic once. The load was all agate with about 20% ceramic and psyllium thickener. They were slightly reflective, more so on high spots. The same rocks had a near wet shine after 18 hours in the next step AO1000.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Jan 2, 2017 12:00:57 GMT -5
Thanks for the additional info, Ken and all. It's quite clear that I need to spend more time in each grit. I just cleaned out and restarted in 220. Ceramic is smooth now, but I also realized that I had thrown in some very rough agatized coral with my formed cabs, that probably didn't help. They smoothed a lot along with the rest of the batch, but there were still a lot of sharp angled pieces that I have discarded now for the restart. The other problem is that I have the bowl filled just barely to the blue line. I was expecting the MB to be a much smaller bowl, and struggled to come up with enough volume with confidence in similar hardness. I need to place an urgent order for more filler, pronto! Will report progress later this week. Thanks again, Dale I've never done a batch of slabs or cabs in my vibe. I have read here that you want a high ratio of ceramic to cab/slab. Helps keep any flats from sticking together which I guess is an issue. Sounds like your on the right track.
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