jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 4, 2019 12:30:02 GMT -5
Dissolved white sugar syrup slurry to 'numb' to a gentle action running in AO 220. Can do 2 days in AO 220 and 1.5 days in AO polish or 4 to 5 days in AO 220 to arrive at polish. Same result. Plan on using glass recipes on jade.
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goatgrinder
spending too much on rocks
Make mine a man cave
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Post by goatgrinder on Feb 4, 2019 16:34:05 GMT -5
Make sure to tell everyone how it works out with jade. I use a 36 lbs boulder on my worktable as an anvil. Maybe its time to put some of it to work even though it is too dark (green) for fancy stuff.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 4, 2019 17:33:13 GMT -5
Make sure to tell everyone how it works out with jade. I use a 36 lbs boulder on my worktable as an anvil. Maybe its time to put some of it to work even though it is too dark (green) for fancy stuff. Will do goatgrinder. The test piece is some fine jade. Might as well try on high grade material.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 5, 2019 6:30:54 GMT -5
The big concern with tumbling this batch is the time and labor invested in melting, sawing, shaping and drilling my treasured glass pendants. Not much different than tumbling a large batch of cabs whom someone invested a lot of labor and materials.
Only after many practice runs would I dare tumble such a batch. Especially glass that has a bad habit of creating gas and blowing the cap off of a rotary barrel and causing potential damage to the batch.
All precautions are in place including a safe and slow rotating rotary tumbler and a reliable and gentle vibe recipe.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 5, 2019 9:00:13 GMT -5
It has been 24 hours in the vibe using AO 220 and batch is about at a 1500 grit finish. Performed surface test by taking a photo of (flat) surface reflection of a common incandescent tungsten filament at ~30 degree angle using manual focus(must use manual focus to capture focus on the distant reflection). Image is reflecting in a developed state and looks to be about a 1000 to 1500 grit finish suggesting abrasive has broken down from 220 grit to ~1500 grit in 24 hours. Right on schedule. Super handy incandescent filament reflection test for finer abrasives. I personally am lost with out this test from 500 to 2000 grit steps: Crappy hole shoulder did not tumble smooth: No need to rubber coat vibe hoppers.(how many times has this subject come up) Rocks (and glass) do just fine in a steel vibe hopper without rubber or plastic lining. Note rust coming off steel hopper at 24 hours. This hopper has been sitting 4 months with wet pea gravel media making a nasty rusty soup. The rust seems to make a fine slurry additive with the sugar. Did you know that purified rust(iron oxide) is sold as an abrasive for certain materials ?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 5, 2019 9:28:38 GMT -5
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Post by HankRocks on Feb 5, 2019 10:08:40 GMT -5
jamesp Did all the pre-drilled holes have dinged up shoulders? For all my preforms I drill after final polish. Seems like several folks out here drill before tumbling however I have had no issues. My thinking is that because between failures; breaks, mal-formed or just not good enough, I don't want to waste time drilling. Most of the agate preforms must be harder to drill than glass. Also on the glass you leaving a hard edge around the drilled hole as opposed to the edge of the piece that's been shaped. It seems like the hard edge would be more susceptible to breaking as the contact is always at right angle to the edge of the hole as opposed to the rounded edge of the piece where the contact would not have a corner to break off. Henry
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 6, 2019 5:08:21 GMT -5
jamesp Did all the pre-drilled holes have dinged up shoulders? For all my preforms I drill after final polish. Seems like several folks out here drill before tumbling however I have had no issues. My thinking is that because between failures; breaks, mal-formed or just not good enough, I don't want to waste time drilling. Most of the agate preforms must be harder to drill than glass. Also on the glass you leaving a hard edge around the drilled hole as opposed to the edge of the piece that's been shaped. It seems like the hard edge would be more susceptible to breaking as the contact is always at right angle to the edge of the hole as opposed to the rounded edge of the piece where the contact would not have a corner to break off. Henry Are you saying you don't drill your pendants ? The chips at the hole shoulders are all caused by drilling. These drill bits have fairly coarse grit and for that reason they drill fast but the drawback is the little chips at the shoulder. Being that the hole is drilled on the flat areas of the pendant the tumbling process simply has a hard time reaching the chips at the shoulder because it the SiC 500 does not remove much material. Several alternatives: Chamfer the hole shoulders with a 3/16" ball diamond bit before SiC 500 Drill the holes before SiC 60 which would grind enough material off to remove the chips. Run 30 to 40% small 3/8" to 1/2" ceramic or pea gravel media during 60 and 500 steps.
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Post by HankRocks on Feb 6, 2019 7:08:46 GMT -5
jamesp Did all the pre-drilled holes have dinged up shoulders? For all my preforms I drill after final polish. Seems like several folks out here drill before tumbling however I have had no issues. My thinking is that because between failures; breaks, mal-formed or just not good enough, I don't want to waste time drilling. Most of the agate preforms must be harder to drill than glass. Also on the glass you leaving a hard edge around the drilled hole as opposed to the edge of the piece that's been shaped. It seems like the hard edge would be more susceptible to breaking as the contact is always at right angle to the edge of the hole as opposed to the rounded edge of the piece where the contact would not have a corner to break off. Henry Are you saying you don't drill your pendants ? The chips at the hole shoulders are all caused by drilling. These drill bits have fairly coarse grit and for that reason they drill fast but the drawback is the little chips at the shoulder. Being that the hole is drilled on the flat areas of the pendant the tumbling process simply has a hard time reaching the chips at the shoulder because it the SiC 500 does not remove much material. Several alternatives: Chamfer the hole shoulders with a 3/16" ball diamond bit before SiC 500 Drill the holes before SiC 60 which would grind enough material off to remove the chips. Run 30 to 40% small 3/8" to 1/2" ceramic or pea gravel media during 60 and 500 steps. I mis-understood and thought the chips came from the tumbling process. Yes I do drill mine preforms, but after they are polished. Agate does not chip as easily as glass.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 6, 2019 8:10:15 GMT -5
Yes, agate does not chip so badly. I ordered several brands of 1.2mm and 2mm drills HankRocks in an attempt to find the coarsest diamonds for the fastest drilling speeds. The finer diamond bits do a smooth shouldered hole. It is these coarse diamond bits that are chipping. I figured the chips can be removed at tumble and they will go away if drilled before SiC 60 step so it is a non-issue really. I was just expressing trials and tribulations.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 6, 2019 8:24:57 GMT -5
Smiley face after 4 month tumbling sabbatical. Slight polish happening at 48 hours using AO 220 and sugar. Still on schedule. Aggravating to see a back yard mechanic like myself able to modify a vibe to work so quickly on a tricky material like glass yet do agates just as well. A sense of negativity towards our factory built vibes. It is the result of shear laziness in manufacturer's efforts. Shameful.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 8, 2019 8:59:08 GMT -5
Reflections improving. Green and red pendant reflecting well at much higher angle after day 4. Tomorrow should conclude AO 220. Next step could be AO 14,000 for a high shine. The steel hopper wears and stains the batch brown during AO 220 step whether it starts out rusty or not. By the time the slurry is dark brown say day 4/5 the batch is about done. The AO 14,000 step does not remove enough steel to turn the slurry brown so color can not be used as an indicator. Day 1 to 4 progress.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 8, 2019 11:28:06 GMT -5
Hard to see small defects run throughout glass. No chance of removing them by tumbling. would take sharp eyes to see them.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 8, 2019 14:50:46 GMT -5
2.7mm bead grommets made of .925 silver makes a classy trim for holes. Guessing they are glued in. OK for flat tumbles.
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Post by pauls on Feb 8, 2019 17:11:12 GMT -5
"The rust seems to make a fine slurry additive with the sugar. Did you know that purified rust(iron oxide) is sold as an abrasive for certain materials ?"
Yep, Rouge, a good polish for metals, also made nice rosy cheeks on Victorian ladies. James what about hollow silver tube for your grommets, it should be reasonably easy (probably) to just turn the end over like a rivett or a canvas eyelet to make a similar thing without glue.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Feb 8, 2019 21:28:33 GMT -5
The grommets look good Jim. I have made a few drilled hole pendants using these off the shelf little embellishments. They are not attached to the stone the wire just holds them in place. Might look pretty good with your stuff and they work on surfaces that are not perfectly flat. I liked them because they are big enough to hide the blowout that can happen drilling agates. Chuck
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 9, 2019 5:42:59 GMT -5
The grommets look good Jim. I have made a few drilled hole pendants using these off the shelf little embellishments. They are not attached to the stone the wire just holds them in place. Might look pretty good with your stuff and they work on surfaces that are not perfectly flat. I liked them because they are big enough to hide the blowout that can happen drilling agates. Chuck That is a beautiful piece Chuck. Very creative and unique metal smith work. Wider flanges would be useful to hide larger blow outs typical of glass. 2.7mm sterling silver grommets cost about $15/100 pieces from Megabeadstore, not bad. These have small flanges and it makes sense that they would work well on curved surfaces. A 2mm bit makes closer to a 2.7mm hole in glass using my particular Dremel press.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 9, 2019 5:59:20 GMT -5
"The rust seems to make a fine slurry additive with the sugar. Did you know that purified rust(iron oxide) is sold as an abrasive for certain materials ?" Yep, Rouge, a good polish for metals, also made nice rosy cheeks on Victorian ladies. James what about hollow silver tube for your grommets, it should be reasonably easy (probably) to just turn the end over like a rivett or a canvas eyelet to make a similar thing without glue. The carbon steel bowls that I use to make fire pits generate large amounts of fine rust when sitting in a position to catch rain and dry out repeatedly. It makes a pasty sludge just before drying out completely. Even the 8 pound capacity steel vibe hopper generates a fair amount of rust like sludge when using 220 and 500 abrasives. The abrasive seems to remove a thin layer of steel from the surface of the hopper and within a day the slurry looks like rust/iron oxide. Soda lime glass is quite alkaline, perhaps the alkalinity helps with the chemical reaction. On the subject of tubing pauls, K&S sells thin wall copper and brass tubing. They may sell short pieces for small bushings for hobby use. The bead industry sells silver and copper 'beads' often used for spacers that might serve as bending into rivets.
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Post by grumpybill on Feb 9, 2019 10:13:44 GMT -5
I like that grommet idea and might steal it! Not so much to hide chipping, but to add a "touch of class" to some rather plain-looking drilled pendants.
I don't get much chipping. Although...my glass is probably harder than yours...and...I'm not in high-production mode, so I'm using bits with finer grit than you're using.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 19, 2019 16:55:31 GMT -5
I like that grommet idea and might steal it! Not so much to hide chipping, but to add a "touch of class" to some rather plain-looking drilled pendants. I don't get much chipping. Although...my glass is probably harder than yours...and...I'm not in high-production mode, so I'm using bits with finer grit than you're using. Bill, I just tested this drill press. It was only $45 plus shipping from Rio Grande. I am throwing rocks at the Dremel. This thing is smooth as silk. And the bits spin truer than when using the Dremel. NO flex. Sweet and fast.
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