ivan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 165
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Post by ivan on Dec 30, 2018 22:55:44 GMT -5
ivan , Custom Technology and Geode Industries are the same. Mine's an old Geo Sonic too but apparently in better shape than yours. They changed the name somewhere along the line. But DP bought the Geo Sonic line and if anyone can help you it's DP. FWIW, mine is extremely noisy too when I turn the power to the highest level. I've learned I can achieve good results at a lower setting. I only use mine for occasional wet stone tumbling and metal burnishing with steel pins so I have no experience with using dry stone polishing media. I hope you find help for your problem. I'll try to keep updating as I go along. Have to give DP a call and see what they can tell me what may be giving me the metal chattering at high setting. Please keep in mind that when the machine is turned back it does just fine. But why have a high setting if you can't use it when needed. Have to do some more homework? Ivan
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ivan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 165
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Post by ivan on Dec 30, 2018 22:50:32 GMT -5
I have two of these by Geo-Sonics and use them from prepolish to polish. I'll agree that they are loud when on full power! I'm not much help beyond that... I didn't even know there was a tune-up kit available. I got mine second hand and they have always worked great. Michael Hi Michael .... I believe DP sells these kits but requires more than I'd like to get involved with. Perhaps only as a last resort if nothing else works out here. They are a terrific machine. I have two (2) of the 1 Kg models used and two (2) Mt-4 one new & one used. Ivan
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ivan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 165
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Post by ivan on Dec 30, 2018 22:44:26 GMT -5
I have one too that I also bought used. I rarely use it just because I prefer the loto's. The only time I dig out the mini-sonic is when something requires a lower speed vibration. As others have mentioned it is pretty unbearably loud at the highest speed. I have found that with mine a folded up piece of paper towel placed in the cradle between the bottom of the tub (barrel) and the plate seems to help quiet it down. Good luck getting your up and running. Chuck That's a pretty neat idea the paper towel to take up the play. I ended up using about 1 1/4" wide foam tape sticky on one side. It can be put on the mount under the tub or stick on the tub then mount the tub down. Seemed to help in that regard. Thanks for the note. IV
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ivan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 165
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Post by ivan on Dec 29, 2018 23:18:42 GMT -5
Hi, If it's a current Mini Sonic brand, it's probably made by Diamond Pacific. If I were you I'd direct your questions to them. They're good about addressing technical issues, and would have any parts you might need. Contact: www.diamondpacific.com/contactdiamondpa.htmlI've used an original model made by Custom Technology for many years. They sold the line to DP years ago. My old machine has performed well for over 30 years and is still going strong. The only problem is it's become increasingly noisy due to something in the housing that's amplifying the vibrations. I need to work on the housing to fix it but otherwise it performs as well as the day I bought it. This is a Geo-Sonics a division of Geode Industries Iowa to give you an idea of how long it's been around. When the speed controller/machine is turned on I can get the tub to vibrate However when I need maximum vibrations/oscillations the tub/machine will make a loud chattering sound like metal upon metal. So I have to back off the speed controller to lower the vibrations to make it tolerable. :icon_scratch:
I usually need maximum or close to that when I use dri-shine material. With that said it will not work with a light material. I have a couple of KG-1 models which work quite well with the dry light corn cob, walnut shell conbinations.
Thanks for the link I'll send Don a note and see what I may be able to do? Maybe he will have some suggestions on how to adjust the metal to metal Chattering out or tell me what is causing the noise.
Kindest regards ...... IV
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ivan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 165
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Post by ivan on Dec 29, 2018 15:19:16 GMT -5
Dear Friends .... Recently acquired a used Mt-4 Electronic Tumbler. It has to be gone over and in the process of tuning it up. A few questions, if you will?? Is there anybody on Our Family Forum that has used these and would share your thoughts or experiences with them?
Specifically would like to know if anyone one has had to purchase a Tune up Kit? Where the best pricing is available for these? Also would like to know where I might find what the suggested gap is between the magnet & platform should be. If that would make any difference??.
Would appreciate any & all information that you can share. Thank you for taking the time to assist this SC with this project. If you prefer to sent a PM that would be fine! Thank you very much. IV USAF 62-66
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ivan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 165
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Post by ivan on Feb 24, 2018 21:41:16 GMT -5
Ivan, I happened to find a picture of the bottom of the carriage/vice assembly of my saw that I took when I was taking it apart and cleaning it. It's pretty gummed up, but maybe the photo will help you a bit. The picture has helped out very nicely. The bottom looks somewhat like mine when I decided to take it down. In the process of putting things back together an in order. I don't think that I'll have to replace any major parts either. So far ... Arbor bearings and vise bearings. Will try to post a final update when I get it back together and take a cut or two to see how the alignment went. Thanks again for taking the time to post the pictures and your input was appreciated. I think you will like and get pretty good service from your rebuild. IV
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ivan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 165
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Post by ivan on Feb 20, 2018 21:37:20 GMT -5
This photo shows why the load need to have such a high content of ceramic filler. Notice the edges are nice and shiny but the flat is still dull. I keep this picture around just to explain this situation. These were tumbled in the lot-o. Notice they are nice solid materials. The cabs shown above had not had the girdles re-worked yet. After re-working the girdles I do not think they could be any better if they were fully cabbed on wheels. Chuck By the example I see what you mean by the quantity of ceramic media or filler that must be needed. The cabs are, exceptional & thanks again for the information. I don't expect I will be posting any of my finished cabs soon. IV
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ivan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 165
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Post by ivan on Feb 20, 2018 21:25:01 GMT -5
I have been tumble polishing cabs for several years now. I think the preferred method is using the vib although there are those who can probably get great results using a rotary. The reasons that I prefer the vib is for a few reasons 1. the vibe is much more aggressive and reduces the time necessary to get a high quality to even superior quality polish depending on your expertise and that comes with time. Although the vib is more aggressive it doesn't tend to change the shape much mostly due to not using very coarse grits most vib barrels are not designed to handle anything coarser than 120 grit but there are exceptions. Although they don't affect the shape much there is a rounding on sharp edges and by some this is not acceptable. Technically a cab has a convex surface on a least one of the two faces so this so this dictates that the shape has to be pre-formed (ground) first. usually through at least 120 and probably a minimum or 220 grit. The use of ceramic media is kind of a personal preference and generally depends on how far you take the pre-form here again time and experience and what you want to accomplish dictate what and when to do it. In all fairness you can probably achieve as good or better a product using the traditional cabbing methods i.e. wheels. So is it worth it Very good post .. minerken. At some point I may get enough ambition to do up a few preforms and see what happens. Not sure if it is necessary but doing it this way sort of takes care of front & back of cabs at the same time. Thanks for taking the time to share your expertise. IV USAF 62-66
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ivan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 165
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Post by ivan on Feb 20, 2018 21:09:23 GMT -5
1. I only tumble cabs in the lot-o vibe tumbler and run them through 120/220, 500, 1000 and then sub-micron grade A/O polish 2. I do not tumble any cabs that contain mixed hardness minerals. Those are better left to the cabbing wheels. I mostly only tumble solid agates and jaspers. 3. 80 percent of the load will be a mix of small and large angle cut ceramics. This is necessary due to the large flat areas of cabs. 4. I often go back and clean up the girdle on the cab wheels to get the sharp I edge I like back. This means hitting all the girdles with 220 hard wheel and then 280-3000 soft wheels. I had a couple of really good pictures in the thread below to describe the girdle clean up but photobucket stole them. Might still be good reading. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/68846/tumbled-cab-girdle-cleanupChuck Do you start with the rough outline cut out and put the rough batch into the tumbler or do you preform or shape your cab first and then run through the steps as outlined. About how long would you say it should take in each cycle. You're right I did find the link but photos not present. Is it possible to maintain an accurate finished cab ... such as 18 x 13 ... or close? The finished cabs posted are outstanding & very nicely done. Excellent symmetry & polish. Thank you for sharing your work & procedure. IV ]
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ivan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 165
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Post by ivan on Feb 20, 2018 20:45:48 GMT -5
Fuzzy being the key word, eh? Fuzzy or Foggiest seems to work!
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ivan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 165
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Post by ivan on Feb 20, 2018 14:15:02 GMT -5
This is all kind of fuzzy to me! But the thought has occurred to me concerning the preparation of gem materials in order to obtain a fairly decent polished finished cab upon completion. After pondering on this I decided to present this to our RTH Forum. That is, to people that are more knowledgeable in this matter and have been successful in accomplishing this?
So any information, suggestions, direction & assistance would be appreciated. Using Vibratory or Rotary, if that would make a difference. Hope this helps? Thank you for taking the time to discuss this and for sharing your thoughts & ideas. IV
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ivan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 165
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Post by ivan on Feb 19, 2018 8:50:02 GMT -5
Hi Ivan. Best way to learn a saw is to take it apart I think! But, I'm no expert in the matter, so buyer beware of what I say. On my saw, I didn't have to remove the carriage ways, they were sound. Nor did I remove the threaded rod for the auto feed. It was in good shape and the bearings on either end of it appeared to move freely. I did run out and look at my saw, it's an older LS 12 as well, so probably similar to yours. If you want to remove the carriage ways, it looks to me like you can just loosen the jam nuts, then back out the bolts from the brackets on the ends of the ways. I think they would just come out. If I'm remembering correctly, I had the saw on its side when I took the carriage and vise off...the bottom pan removed. I loosened and removed the bolts holding the carriage bearings, and took the bearings out. There is a spring holding the split nut that grips the threaded feed rod. Take the spring off and open up the nut. I think the whole assembly will just come off as it pretty much just sits on the ways. I don't know if that will help or not. I'm attaching a couple pix that might be helpful, one is the carriage way bracket with the jam nut/ bolt/ and bracket that I mentioned earlier. And the other is the back end of the threaded rod assembly. Good morning - lpl ... The photos & explanations were helpful. It's possible we may both have the older models. The one I have did not have or come with the hinge. Thank you for sharing. IV
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ivan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 165
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Post by ivan on Feb 18, 2018 20:48:45 GMT -5
It's not terribly difficult to restore one of these saws. I bought one off of Craigslist a while ago and it was in a lot rougher shape than I thought. Just be sure to take pictures as you take things apart. Lots of pictures! But there aren't a lot of parts really. The link that Robin posted will be helpful. You won't need a lot of tools, but I did need to buy a cheap 3 jaw gear puller set from Harbor Freight to get the pulleys off of the arbor shaft. I replaced the pulleys and the belt since they were worn and bent. And the small bearings on the carriage are same as those used for skateboard wheels, so it's a good source. The arbor bearings can be found locally or on eBay. I was lucky and didn't have to replace any factory type parts, but I hear that Lortone is pretty good to work with if you need something like a new arbor. Aligning the blade to the carriage was tricky, but not all that hard...just took some fiddling. Hope that is helpful to you. Just go slow and you'll be fine! This SC had a senior moment and decided to disassemble the whole unit. In a way I'm glad I did, but who would of thought to take pictures . The arbor bearings needed replacement as well as the carriage bearings. Also I will need have to rethread the channel carriage, as it has become sloppy, and also possibly the vise carriage. A couple of things if you will an are able to recall? Please keep in mind that my unit is an older LS 12 and some things have changed on the later models. What is the best way you found to remove the vise carriage? Also the carriage ways? And then the setting of the carriage bearing to the carriage ways? There is also the matter of the threaded feed rod removal and re installation. These were a few things that I fooled around with and didn't go all that well. Thanks very much for taking the time to assist this SC. One consultation is that this will probably be the last time I will have to do this, if I can get it close. Kindest regards .... IV USAF 62-66
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ivan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 165
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Post by ivan on Feb 18, 2018 19:55:05 GMT -5
Got your link and Yes it will help! IV
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ivan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 165
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Post by ivan on Feb 17, 2018 18:09:16 GMT -5
This Saw has served me well over the years. The bearings are not all that are needed to get it restored. Unfortunately I've discovered that this Saw has some other issues. It will need to be taken down an disassembled, cleaned and reassembled. In this Ordeal I have to wear all the hats and NONE of them fit very well, to accomplish this. Is there or would there be someone that can give this SC the procedure to follow to take down the machine, and to properly put things back together & aligned. Any an all suggestions, instructions & assistance with this matter would be very much appreciated. Thank you very much! IV 62-66
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ivan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 165
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Post by ivan on Feb 6, 2018 19:30:31 GMT -5
Thanks for the update Jim .... I'll see if I can track them down. The original AL 204 that I removed is an symmetrical insert bearing that seats into a symmetrical stop that is secured to arbor. Thanks for your input an suggestions. I did call Lortone and they said they would call back?? Unable to find or locate the section where you may have posted this. Thanks again for taking the time to reply! IV I don't have that saw, but I do know how to find and buy things on the internet. Please correct me if I misunderstood, but you said the bearing number is NTN AL204-012 - right? I Googled "bearing NTN AL204-012" and came up with an assortment of possible sources. Google linkThey can be bought from bearing dealers, or through eBay or Amazon. Your choice. I saw them for $14 to $45 and more. There is also so e cross referencing info there as well. Good luck! Thanks you very much for taking the time to post your research. I finally decided to call a local bearing dealer and they were able to match this bearing exactly with a Timken RA012RRB. There seem to be a multitude of 204 bearing listings as well as manufacturers. However I only needed two (2) as I am not a volume dealer. Thanks again! IV
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ivan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 165
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Post by ivan on Feb 6, 2018 12:53:20 GMT -5
Correction: Eccentric to replace where symmetrical has been entered. Hope this helps!
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ivan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 165
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Post by ivan on Feb 6, 2018 12:31:48 GMT -5
I buy them from the auto parts and had to go all the way to the "why in the hell is it here" section to find the label but here it is. 14274 BOWER/BICA but written by me on that is ST974. Not the greatest bearings in the world but will work. There are a lot of these saws out there so you should get more responses. Jim Thanks for the update Jim .... I'll see if I can track them down. The original AL 204 that I removed is an symmetrical insert bearing that seats into a symmetrical stop that is secured to arbor. Thanks for your input an suggestions. I did call Lortone and they said they would call back?? Unable to find or locate the section where you may have posted this. Thanks again for taking the time to reply! IV
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ivan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 165
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Post by ivan on Feb 6, 2018 1:41:41 GMT -5
Thanks Tom ... Glad you thought of that!
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ivan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 165
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Post by ivan on Feb 6, 2018 1:07:28 GMT -5
Just getting around to replacing the arbor bearings on my old LST 12 saw. Would like to know where I can obtain replacement arbor bearings for the unit. They are pillow bearings. NTN AL204-012 is the bearing #. They are, I believe, an insert pillow bearing that does not have a locking collar. Also the best place to purchase these or a reference bearing that can be cross referenced, as I haven't been able to make a lot of progress with this. Would appreciate any an all assistance, input or direction Our Members can offer. Thank you very much! IV
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