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Post by liveoak on Oct 18, 2022 6:50:53 GMT -5
Boy this rabbit hole is getting deeper ......
We were out this weekend & Tom was buying a sweet little old sensitive drill press (which I think I might just have to keep on my bench), but that's a different story.
The guy selling it does clock repair & he had this grinder also for sale.
It originally was made to grind crystals on watch faces, and since he does clocks, not watches he was looking to move it along.
So it came to me that it could make a great Intarsia grinder.
The wet side has a water tray & a SS table.
So I found that on Amazon I could buy 4" diamond laps - so my question is what grit or grits should I look at for grinding the edges ?
Second question - the only written info I can find is a 48 page magazine/book "Introduction To Stone Intarsia" by Bill Boggs . It looks that a bunch of people on RTH years ago purchased it, so my question is -
Does the book at 48 pages have enough info to be worth $ 25 (including shipping).
Thanks for any info -
Patty
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Post by rockjunquie on Oct 18, 2022 8:07:10 GMT -5
When I was looking for reference works a few years back, I found very little. There is a dvd by Phil Magistro. I got it through The Intarsia Grinder. I don't know if you can still get it. I don't even remember if it is any good, honestly. I found a few YouTube videos, too. Not much else.
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Post by liveoak on Oct 18, 2022 8:43:33 GMT -5
Thanks Tela, rockjunquie, I hadn't heard of the video, I'll have to look for it. What about grits on the grinder ? Any idea what is recommended ? Hopefully others will also weigh in, I know Rockoonz certainly does Intarsia , and I think Pat does too. Thanks, Patty |
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Post by rockjunquie on Oct 18, 2022 8:50:00 GMT -5
Thanks Tela, rockjunquie , I hadn't heard of the video, I'll have to look for it. What about grits on the grinder ? Any idea what is recommended ? Hopefully others will also weigh in, I know Rockoonz certainly does Intarsia , and I think Pat does too. Thanks, Patty My goal, which I haven't reached yet, is to have the same grits as the genie. |
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Post by Rockoonz on Oct 18, 2022 9:18:41 GMT -5
That's a nice looking machine. What diameter lap does it take? It looks like you might need to either stack 2 master laps or put a good parallel spacer behind the master lap to make up for the extra thickness of the existing grindstone. Also extend that spray shield to cover the entire diameter. You will want the lap surface to be as close as possible to the tool rest shelf, and for it to be an exact 90 degrees. I would probably find a piece of stainless and just make a new one, but you could also turn yours around, drill new screw holes, and notch out the end to snuggle in closer after you are happy with your lap install. A small machinist square will be helpful for that, and I use one when making intarsia to help lay out the corners on square and rectangular pieces. My Al Sesona grinder came with a 180 grit lap, seems to be the perfect grit to grind edges fairly quickly without them chipping and causing problems with the glue joint. Bill Boggs is berfle on the forum and I need to go to Willian Holland for his class. My teacher at the NW rockhound retreat was certainly his equal, but I only took her beginners class, I have a long ways to go. Here are his posts to give you an idea. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/user/9589/recentI have something resembling a tutorial for one I did in 2017, here it is as well. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/96418/concentric-square-intarsia-round-holeKeep us in the loop on your progress, and feel free to PM if you need suggestions as you adapt this machine to your purposes. |
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Post by liveoak on Oct 18, 2022 9:22:34 GMT -5
I wasn't sure that was necessary, which is why I asked.
I got thinking, when I made my doublet all the info I read said to just be sure it was flat & one grit was plenty.
Well I didn't actually go with that, instead I ground it on 220, 360 & 600 & sure enough you couldn't see any scratches once it was glued.
So I'm wondering if Intarsia works the same way, seems like it might.
OTOH with Intarsia you're looking down at the glue line, so maybe it works differently ?
Patty
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Post by liveoak on Oct 18, 2022 9:32:37 GMT -5
Thank you Lee - good info.
We realize that we need too do a little adapting to make it all work, but it's pretty close.
It's a 4", and does have a SS 90 degree table - but as you said, needs a backing plate .
I have to see if one is available or get Tom to make one for me .
He already has to make me a shaft adapter for the 3/8" shaft. Good think for the little machine shop, on the property. 
The funny thing is that we brought it from the guy, thinking it looked useful and all,
and it wasn't until the next morning that it hit me what I will use it for.
Here's the funny thing about it that I still haven't figured out.
As you saw it has 2 sides - the wet side spins away from you & the 3" dry side spins toward you.
The company went through a lot to make it do that (shafts are not connected), so there must be a reason.
The company ( L&R ) is actually still in business in NJ, but lost all their old records to Hurricane Sandy.
All they could tell me was that it is at least 50 years old.
Thanks again for the links I will check it all out.
Patty
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Post by Rockoonz on Oct 18, 2022 9:37:13 GMT -5
Intarsia is different. The match is pretty critical. If you use black a lot you can always add some black coloring to epoxy for your joins, I don't personally but I've seen it done. I hold my join together dry with a light behind it, if I see light through the join it's not ready to glue.
With quartz caps the big thing is air bubbles, chase them away with heat, and when mixing do your best to not introduce air. If the optical epoxy fills it any sanding scratches will disappear like it's under water, so fine sanding is not at all necessary. Also put the cap on like you close a book to push the air out one end.
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Post by Rockoonz on Oct 18, 2022 9:44:41 GMT -5
So how about that drill press? I was given a very cool radial arm drill press by a friend who bought it for the motor to go on a rock saw. My next shop table will be to fit that top heavy monster and a bench grinder for my currently cluttered fab shop.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Oct 18, 2022 9:51:39 GMT -5
liveoak Patty I bought the book but I will have to look for it. I have no idea where I actually put it or if Vince maybe "reorganized" it somewhere. If I find it, I'll let you know what it says. 
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Post by liveoak on Oct 18, 2022 10:03:48 GMT -5
OK, Here's the new drill press, it needs the "Tom" treatment to be running perfectly, but it's nice and small and precise .
It has a Jacobs #1A chuck on it & closes up tight.
It was originally finished with a black wrinkle paint, and that's what Tom is planning to do ( once he removes the hideous green paint).
It's all complete except for the belt guards (but they are ugly anyway).
Tom has 1 or 2 Radial Drill Press, a small Delta & a much larger Walker Turner. Once of them is actually use able 
Some radial drill presses are HUGE- is that they kind you mean ?
Fun with new tools
Patty
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Post by liveoak on Oct 18, 2022 10:05:28 GMT -5
Thanks Robin hummingbirdstones. Guess I'm feeling cheap, so want to know if it's worth it. I mean I have my $50 grinder ........ Patty |
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Post by liveoak on Oct 18, 2022 10:53:43 GMT -5
Intarsia is different. The match is pretty critical. If you use black a lot you can always add some black coloring to epoxy for your joins, I don't personally but I've seen it done. I hold my join together dry with a light behind it, if I see light through the join it's not ready to glue. With quartz caps the big thing is air bubbles, chase them away with heat, and when mixing do your best to not introduce air. If the optical epoxy fills it any sanding scratches will disappear like it's under water, so fine sanding is not at all necessary. Also put the cap on like you close a book to push the air out one end. That's about what I figured out with the doublet - only took we 2 tries to get it relatively bubble free.
I like the light idea for the Intarsia , thanks for the tip.
Patty
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Post by liveoak on Nov 26, 2022 7:55:09 GMT -5
Thanks @hefty I splurged this morning & watched your posted video (long you tubes not usually watchable with satellite internet)
I hadn't seen it before & gave some good ideas.
A lot of the Intarsia is square framed, it was nice to see another approach.
Obviously it's only constrains are your imagination !
As to your drawing. I think the top one is what most people do, as one thing that has to be kept in mind is that the stones (or wood for that matter) are going to be ground after gluing. Your second drawing would seem to open a gap if you ground a lot, so I wonder how that would work. The bottom one would seem good as long as your intarsia pattern wouldn't degrade in appearance if your joint moved over a tad after grinding.
Lee, Rockoonz, mentioned his method was to do the parallel joint and use a flashlight to make sure the joint is good & tight. I think I like that the best & since my grinder should easily do a flat square joint, seems like a good starting point.
But I do see the benefit of the 45 angle.
Thanks for bringing this up & getting me thinking on it again.
Guess I need to get Tom (my husband) on the needed bushing for the grinder.
Patty
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Post by Rockoonz on Nov 26, 2022 9:18:07 GMT -5
Yeah, an angled grind will work for pieces that are joined perfectly on a flat surface, but if you grind down or dome it you will create gaps or distortions in the straightness of the join. The 45 degree joins might be interesting with intarsia beads that aren't backed. I do very much want to attend the William Holland school, especially Bill Boggs class.
I got a bunch of the reconstituted materials like that in an estate in Sun City, makes me think either the person had been to Wm. Holland or an instructor in Sun City had. Seeing the video has me thinking about working up some stuff before the show we're doing in January just to see the reactions.
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Post by liveoak on Nov 26, 2022 10:11:34 GMT -5
What kind of grinder do you have that gives a square edge? My lapidary club only has wheels and it's been a challenge. Getting a flat lap soon. Well I have a flat lap, but the grinder I mentioned is pictured at the top of this thread.
It was actually sold as an optical grinder, for glass. But it has a stainless steel table, that's square to the wheel, a water tray, and i was able to get a 4" diamond wheel in 180 grit to put on it
(once Tom makes that needed bushing that is.)
I would think working on the wheels would be hard to get something dead flat.
I also have end laps on my cabber for flattening cab backs, maybe your club has that.
You could always been really mental and use silicone carbide sand paper & a thick piece of glass
Patty
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Post by Rockoonz on Nov 26, 2022 10:12:24 GMT -5
It's the rest shelf that makes the 90 degree edge. The machine he used to make the edges flat in the video is the Al Sesona grinder. I have one, along with a number of members here. They may not be available, someone bought the business from Al, he's got to be almost 100 now if he's still around. I am considering options for a design with 8" laps and a variable speed servo motor, but it's nowhere near the top of the list.
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Post by liveoak on Nov 26, 2022 19:53:30 GMT -5
I do very much want to attend the William Holland school, especially Bill Boggs class. Funny, Tom and I are headed up to Murphy NC in a couple of weeks, to pick up a metal shaper for him, so out of curiosity I looked at
William Holland. Surprisingly the class prices, even with the material costs were lower than most schools.
But of course staying somewhere would be an expense.
If I'm correct, I think you have a motor home- in which case in season (April - Nov.) you could easily find a campground.
And what's nice is they have a variety of classes, so your wife might be interested in a class given at the same time.
Can't beat the NC mountains for a nice trip. Patty... who used to live up north of there.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Nov 26, 2022 22:02:17 GMT -5
I do very much want to attend the William Holland school, especially Bill Boggs class. Funny, Tom and I are headed up to Murphy NC in a couple of weeks, to pick up a metal shaper for him, so out of curiosity I looked at
William Holland. Surprisingly the class prices, even with the material costs were lower than most schools.
But of course staying somewhere would be an expense.
If I'm correct, I think you have a motor home- in which case in season (April - Nov.) you could easily find a campground.
And what's nice is they have a variety of classes, so your wife might be interested in a class given at the same time.
Can't beat the NC mountains for a nice trip. Patty... who used to live up north of there.
Patty - they have lodging (both rooms and a campground) on the premises for reasonable fees. |
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Post by liveoak on Nov 27, 2022 7:02:50 GMT -5
Patty - they have lodging (both rooms and a campground) on the premises for reasonable fees. Hum, I didn't realize that Robin, thank you.
Not going to happen this trip up there, but something to consider.
Nice to think about anyway 
Patty
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