khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,979
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Post by khara on Jan 18, 2023 12:32:57 GMT -5
I am researching saw oil. Trying to figure out the best option. I need to fill my rock saw and also I think I'll replace the oil in my trim saw. I'm seeing mention of mineral oil. I also see that Diamond Pacific has their brand of an oil. What option is best? I think I'd prefer quality/safety over economy. My saw is in a garage and won't be exposed to extreme temperature changes. I likely also won't use it a lot. It'll sit for long periods of time. I'd like something that isn't caustic and don't need to worry about it on my skin and also won't stink too much. The oil currently in my trim saw is a bit stinky. If I get even a little mist on my shirt sleeve I'm smelling it for the rest of the day which can be kind of nauseating and it doesn't easily wash out. I've seen talk of viscosity and don't know if I need to research more into that. I think mineral oil is nice and safe for humans but not sure if it's best for the saws? Also, I'm now seeing people talk about filtering the oil. This part is news to me, I'll need to look into that more. Any insight you can give on is appreciated!
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automaton25
off to a rocking start
Member since November 2022
Posts: 22
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Post by automaton25 on Jan 18, 2023 12:54:05 GMT -5
I am researching saw oil. Trying to figure out the best option. I need to fill my rock saw and also I think I'll replace the oil in my trim saw. I'm seeing mention of mineral oil. I also see that Diamond Pacific has their brand of an oil. What option is best? I think I'd prefer quality/safety over economy. My saw is in a garage and won't be exposed to extreme temperature changes. I likely also won't use it a lot. It'll sit for long periods of time. I'd like something that isn't caustic and don't need to worry about it on my skin and also won't stink too much. The oil currently in my trim saw is a bit stinky. If I get even a little mist on my shirt sleeve I'm smelling it for the rest of the day which can be kind of nauseating and it doesn't easily wash out. I've seen talk of viscosity and don't know if I need to research more into that. I think mineral oil is nice and safe for humans but not sure if it's best for the saws? Also, I'm now seeing people talk about filtering the oil. This part is news to me, I'll need to look into that more. Any insight you can give on is appreciated! Use a lapidary specific mineral oil. I just highland Parks but it doesn't really matter. It's not much more expensive than the frequently recommended horse laxative and it's much thinner so it cools better, lubricates better, and the particles fall out of it quicker.
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 18, 2023 13:49:42 GMT -5
I use stellar lubricants, a lapidary oil. "Mineral oil" is often confused as something other than petroleum, but it comes from the same separating and refining process that gives us thick tarlike gear oils and extremely thin kerosene or gasoline. Mineral oil is merely a trade name, no minerals involved in it's production, just a highly refined oil. At the same viscosity, tech grade (veterinary and cosmetics), food grade, and medical grade are identical. The grading and cost differences are due to the testing and certifications and their cost.
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khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,979
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Post by khara on Jan 18, 2023 20:14:42 GMT -5
automaton25 Rockoonz Thank you both for your good info. So it sounds like viscosity is a bit of a thing and "mineral" oil may be too thick. When I do a lapidary oil search on Amazon, all sorts of food grade mineral oil options pop up so that's interesting but not very helpful. Or tiny little bottles of "cutting oil" pop up which didn't seem right either. I looked for the Stellar oil and it's a bit hard to find, only available on ebay from what I can tell. The orange scent sounds like it could be good or bad. Both of you, what do you think of the smell of your oils? May be a strange concern but I often take stretch breaks away from my computer. I'll go and trim saw a slab and the oil I'm using now is pretty nauseating and annoying to sit in for the rest of the day. Just the little bit of fine mist that lands on me that I'm not able to block. I don't know what the oil is, it has been in my saw for years.
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AzRockGeek
has rocks in the head
Member since September 2016
Posts: 703
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Post by AzRockGeek on Jan 18, 2023 20:35:10 GMT -5
Almost everyone I know cannot stand the scent of Stellars orange cutting oil, in my opinion it is worse then automotive hydraulic fluids. The same guy that sells the Stellar also sells Bear Naked cutting oil, this is what I will typically buy when he or his vendors are selling at Q or Tucson. No scent and cuts well. The Hplapidary cutting oil is getting good reviews as well, I have not tried it yet.
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automaton25
off to a rocking start
Member since November 2022
Posts: 22
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Post by automaton25 on Jan 18, 2023 20:44:41 GMT -5
automaton25 Rockoonz Thank you both for your good info. So it sounds like viscosity is a bit of a thing and "mineral" oil may be too thick. When I do a lapidary oil search on Amazon, all sorts of food grade mineral oil options pop up so that's interesting but not very helpful. Or tiny little bottles of "cutting oil" pop up which didn't seem right either. I looked for the Stellar oil and it's a bit hard to find, only available on ebay from what I can tell. The orange scent sounds like it could be good or bad. Both of you, what do you think of the smell of your oils? May be a strange concern but I often take stretch breaks away from my computer. I'll go and trim saw a slab and the oil I'm using now is pretty nauseating and annoying to sit in for the rest of the day. Just the little bit of fine mist that lands on me that I'm not able to block. I don't know what the oil is, it has been in my saw for years. I don't mind it. I use my saw indoors and it causes no problems for my family or animals. I wouldn't say it's the most pleasent smell, but it's fine to be around. It does still.mist a fair amount when cutting a large 6" piece of agate, but I just turn an air mover on and blow it through the window. For what it's worth, the misting and odor are the same as using horse laxative, it just stays cooler. If you open a bottle of food grade mineral oil, it smells pretty much the same.
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khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,979
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Post by khara on Jan 18, 2023 20:46:00 GMT -5
AzRockGeek Thank you! That is good to know! I can imagine it being a problem smelling up the garage even. I see his other Bear Naked product now.
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khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,979
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Post by khara on Jan 18, 2023 20:54:43 GMT -5
automaton25 Interesting. Thank you. Yes, a lot of these say "low odor" or "odorless", none of them say NO odor! The staying cooler part is good info.
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Post by Peruano on Jan 18, 2023 20:56:45 GMT -5
The basic differences are in viscosity and from a practical standpoint, thinner means the solids (read rock dust) settle to the bottom of your tank and the oil floats on top and stays clear longer. Cleaning means scraping the detritus out like semi-dried paint from your old latex bucket. Thicker (read human laxative and to a lesser extent horse laxatives) will mean that rock detritus will remain suspended in the coolant (same clean out interval probably but in my experience easier in that its is removed like pudding. In my eyes they both have the same lubricating and cooling properties; but I suspect that the thinner stuff will mist more and hence contribute to the film of adjacent equipment and persistent odors. While some folks recommend baby oil and other things with fragrances, I am totally turned off by such intrusions in my shop. There is not best lapidary oil, except one that is readily available to you, within your cost range, and not as obnoxiously offensive as kerosene, diesel fuel, hydraulic fluid, or oils from electrical transformers that have toxic stuff unmentionable. Go home with the oil that brung you and don't fret too much about whether it was the best.
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khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,979
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Post by khara on Jan 18, 2023 21:14:46 GMT -5
Interesting take Peruano and somewhat poetic. :-) Sounds like I'll have to just get moving with one of these and see what I like/don't like. We are refurbishing this old rock saw so I don't even really know how it operates yet or how to clean it. That experience is somewhere in the future... :-)
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 18, 2023 22:03:34 GMT -5
I have been using the "Horse Laxative" Mineral Oil for over 3 years and so far none of my 3 saws have had any problem with constipation!! Does not seem to have any noticeable odor, and the only issue is the maintenance department is somewhat lax(no pun intended) with their cleanout schedule. With everything else being equal, the cost of the oil with free shipping of orders over $75, and the next day delivery to me is a big plus. With 3 saws a 24", a 20" and a 10" larger orders are my norm. I do re-use filtered oil. My current filtering system is very slow and working on next upgrade using pillowcases or a suitable cloth sack and some adjustments to speed up the process. I have 6 gallons of filtered oil ready to use. If I can speed up the filtering process my orders should be less frequent.
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rockbrain
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2022
Posts: 3,167
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Post by rockbrain on Jan 18, 2023 22:04:13 GMT -5
I don't profess to know much about viscosity, but it seems odd to me that one of them is the "right" one when there are so many different saws running under such differing conditions.
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 19, 2023 11:40:23 GMT -5
I don't profess to know much about viscosity, but it seems odd to me that one of them is the "right" one when there are so many different saws running under such differing conditions. There is a range you can use for sure, and with some research a person might be able to use zahn cups and make their own blend for each saw, but there are already not enough hours in a day. With larger blades I notice more mist if I open it immediately, so using the filtered oil, which is a little thicker, can help with that. I never add the thickeners like some do to control mist, most contain zinc and other nasty unhealthy chemicals. The only condition we're dealing with is where the blade contacts what it's cutting, we're looking for cooling, lubricating, and flushing debris away from the cut, pretty universal with all saws. We're looking at CsT@40c viscosity 7-12 ideally, make sure it's @40c and not @100c. ISO numbers are pretty much the same, but have +/-10 tolerance so batches can vary wildly and the oils it's used for are generally stinky gear oils anyway. If it is measured in SAE it's too thick, 0-5SAE is 22 CsT. Here in AZ in the summer I stop cutting generally at about 105 degrees f or allow a LONG cool down between cuts, the oil and blade have gotten hot enough that the blade gets wonky from heat expansion, thankfully it returned to normal when it cooled but the cuts with the untensioned hot blade are not nice smooth cuts.
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 19, 2023 11:56:05 GMT -5
I usually allow 10 minutes after a cut is complete before opening the hood on the 20" and the 24". Both of these produce a lot more mist than the 10" saw. That seems to make sense as the bigger blade, the larger volume under the hood, bigger rocks with longer cut time.
The 10 inch saw is real good about letting me know when the oil is too dirty. The blade gets loaded up and stops cutting. Hand sharpening it with a brick unloads it and finishes that cut. Then change the oil, back to cutting. I suppose too much slurry in the oil does not help keep the diamonds exposed.
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 19, 2023 12:08:46 GMT -5
Almost everyone I know cannot stand the scent of Stellars orange cutting oil, in my opinion it is worse then automotive hydraulic fluids. The same guy that sells the Stellar also sells Bear Naked cutting oil, this is what I will typically buy when he or his vendors are selling at Q or Tucson. No scent and cuts well. The Hplapidary cutting oil is getting good reviews as well, I have not tried it yet. I'll have to ask Kevin about the bare naked at Q and maybe switch to it when his last 55g delivery runs out. I started with him buying oil for the club shop. When I joined and helped a member re-establish the club lapidary in a new location they were getting transformer oil from a member who got it by the drum. A couple well intentioned members began using the hydraulic oil when the other oil supply dried up, and I bailed for awhile because it was awful stuff. When members with reactions to it complained we found the stellar oil, everyone was happy with it. Their current new location has great ventilation for the saw area so that helps, but still no complaints to my knowledge. I was in my attached garage up north and never heard comments on the smell their either. I still separate oily, wet and dry operations, but not due to smell.
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 19, 2023 12:17:15 GMT -5
I usually allow 10 minutes after a cut is complete before opening the hood on the 20" and the 24". Both of these produce a lot more mist than the 10" saw. That seems to make sense as the bigger blade, the larger volume under the hood, bigger rocks with longer cut time. The 10 inch saw is real good about letting me know when the oil is too dirty. The blade gets loaded up and stops cutting. Hand sharpening it with a brick unloads it and finishes that cut. Then change the oil, back to cutting. I suppose too much slurry in the oil does not help keep the diamonds exposed. When I re-roof the building with the saws I am adding an exhaust hood for when I open the lids and to help air flow for a swamp cooler. Do you swage your blades? That really helps with binding and blade life, my 10 inch saw turned a few blades into potato chips before I caught on to that. I just did it with the 12" blade in my FranTom 14" when it started laboring to cut. There's an active thread on that right now. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/101403/extending-blade-life-tested?page=1&scrollTo=1260709
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Post by parfive on Jan 19, 2023 14:26:06 GMT -5
RFI: Anyone ever plop a temperature sensor in the oil tank and plot the rise over the course of a cutting session?
Also curious, in the bigger saws, if any oil actually circulates top to bottom while cutting.
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 19, 2023 14:39:01 GMT -5
I usually allow 10 minutes after a cut is complete before opening the hood on the 20" and the 24". Both of these produce a lot more mist than the 10" saw. That seems to make sense as the bigger blade, the larger volume under the hood, bigger rocks with longer cut time. The 10 inch saw is real good about letting me know when the oil is too dirty. The blade gets loaded up and stops cutting. Hand sharpening it with a brick unloads it and finishes that cut. Then change the oil, back to cutting. I suppose too much slurry in the oil does not help keep the diamonds exposed. When I re-roof the building with the saws I am adding an exhaust hood for when I open the lids and to help air flow for a swamp cooler. Do you swage your blades? That really helps with binding and blade life, my 10 inch saw turned a few blades into potato chips before I caught on to that. I just did it with the 12" blade in my FranTom 14" when it started laboring to cut. There's an active thread on that right now. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/101403/extending-blade-life-tested?page=1&scrollTo=1260709I will check the blades on the 24" saw, it's a standard diamond blade. I am using a Notched Rim blade from Kingsley North on the 20", the first one made 242 cuts before I had to replace it. The 2nd one is up to 55 and counting. The Diamonds are in the "notches" so I don't think the referenced process would work. I figure for about $37 each plus shipping it was worth a shot. I have been called from my rock duties in the garage as my Daughter is in town for a long weekend and it's Kolache Day!!! I am sure she will put me in an entry-level position. That and I have been told that if I want Prune Kolaches I will have to make the filling!!
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,113
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Post by stefan on Jan 19, 2023 15:54:51 GMT -5
Food grade mineral oil. Almost water thin (even at 15 degrees the coldest I have run the saw at). Zero smell. Used to be cheap (on Amazon) but price has more than doubled. I filter it on clean outs and have not had to replace it yet (4 clean outs and counting).
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realrockhound
Cave Dweller
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
Member since June 2020
Posts: 4,483
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Post by realrockhound on Jan 19, 2023 17:03:13 GMT -5
Horse laxative
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