|
|
Post by glennz01 on Feb 5, 2024 1:47:19 GMT -5
I look for expensive material at a good price. That is part of the hobby for me. I don't compete with India or China. I also don't have sales or coupons. I'm not looking to undercut prices for those who are trying to make wages selling. I tried selling on one of the facebook pages and sold one cab. There is a two tier system at Cabs and slabs. Selling as a guest; days and items are restricted. They also did an image scan before approving posts to check that the cab wasn't being offered elsewhere. I had posts rejected when they were ok. I tend to use the same shapes and material. If the mod looked closely he could see the difference. Well when I mean by China, they sell cabs wholesale for $2 ea that stores retail for $10 ea lol. Quality is lacking in them though. As for Facebook, need to make your own group instead of posting things for sake in other groups, but do post some cool things from your group to others and if people like your stuff they will follow. Ie if you look at mine Alaskan Lapudary, you'll see most of the cabs I've made on my last batch with ones I finish up this week after I clear another 12 inches of fresh snow from people's driveways lol. I don't so much compete, I just do things by time and material, cabs used to take me 3/4 hr to make so I set that size to $25 and improved a in time. Mostly local materials, some spendy or rare materials I put to comp material cost for more like dino bone. Plus I do 2-3 rock shows a year which helps |
|
rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
|
Post by rocknewb101 on Feb 5, 2024 9:29:45 GMT -5
wow, I'm intrigued. I can't even go from 80 to 220 and remove scratches, but straight to 1000 from 80? How does that work?
|
|
|
|
Post by stardiamond on Feb 5, 2024 20:56:57 GMT -5
glennz01, I set up a facebook page for selling cabs. I need to take photos and list. I had a technique for getting shop visits which is to list a lot of more unusual material which results in better placement in web and Etsy searches. That doesn't work for FB. I do FB searches for material. It allows me find listings that are not easy to find. FB pages are not structured well for finding stuff. My traffic will be driven the FB search.
|
|
|
|
Post by glennz01 on Feb 6, 2024 3:20:02 GMT -5
glennz01, I set up a facebook page for selling cabs. I need to take photos and list. I had a technique for getting shop visits which is to list a lot of more unusual material which results in better placement in web and Etsy searches. That doesn't work for FB. I do FB searches for material. It allows me find listings that are not easy to find. FB pages are not structured well for finding stuff. My traffic will be driven the FB search. Basically have to share cool stuff, people join to see more, sales eventually come. I started in 2013 gained real traction in 2018/9 when I started making a lot more. |
|
|
|
Post by glennz01 on Feb 6, 2024 3:20:49 GMT -5
wow, I'm intrigued. I can't even go from 80 to 220 and remove scratches, but straight to 1000 from 80? How does that work? I'd think your not using much pressure? |
|
rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
|
Post by rocknewb101 on Feb 6, 2024 8:03:00 GMT -5
wow, I'm intrigued. I can't even go from 80 to 220 and remove scratches, but straight to 1000 from 80? How does that work? I'd think your not using much pressure? Sometimes I think I use too much pressure, in order to shape the preform and then the dome. But I try to not use much pressure at all on the grinding wheels, but I'm new to cabbing and the 80 to 220 to 280 wheels are my struggle. Are you saying I should use more, or less pressure? |
|
|
|
Post by Rockoonz on Feb 6, 2024 9:05:48 GMT -5
That's interesting, the guy who sold me my first big saw and a combo cab machine gave me a "lesson" on a 15 minute cab (from dopped preform) and he used a 80/220hard/220soft/600/1200/3000/cerium setup on a Titan. DP used to make the 220 soft wheels for Rons Rocks on ebay, I plan to have a couple old 280 soft wheels recoated in 220 from a shop in Idaho to try. My first "production" setup, a 2 wheel 8" arbor with 60/600 hard and another with 2 expandos and belts was slow in comparison with a standard Genie I use now, but I also start with the 80 waffle wheel from J Bros for the mass material removal, then again to a 80 grit on the Genie if needed, and that speeds up the process some. Some materials can be arould 20 minutes a cab, others up to twice that, then there's intarsia and carving.
|
|
|
|
Post by rmf on Feb 6, 2024 14:20:32 GMT -5
I hope to have some new info to contribute on this thread in about 6 months but it is too cool in my basement to time my cabbing. It will have to wait for warmer weather. It should be noted in the above that @hefty 's contribution is true on cabs as well as facet stones however it is more obvious on faceted stones than on cabs. I also grind with a heavy hand and for hogging material I like a 30 grit sintered Baltic Abrasive(BA) wheel. This leaves scratches about equal to a Diamond Pacific(DP) 60 grit plated hex wheel. The BA 30 Grit cuts about 11% faster than the DP 60 grit hex wheel. (from my testing the DP wheel was broken in, not new. In my experience the breaking process for the DP 60 grit and 80 grit plated wheels is about 100 - 150, 40x30 size agate cabochons. The 30 Grit sintered wheel from BA I ran about 250 cabs through the wheel to "break it in" before I started timing my grinding. I have now roughed out over 500 stones on the wheel and have found the break in time to be zero. One oddity the right half of the wheel has less chipping that the Left half. Chipping on the 30 grit is about equal to chipping from a new plated 60 grit wheel. I hog material from the top and grind only material where chipping wont matter. I then finish the rough out on a worn 80 grit hex plated wheel from DP.
I purchased a 60 grit sintered wheel from BA as well and though it works well it is too slow for roughout work. I have used it with great success to take the dopped rough ground cabs and remove scratches from the 80 grit. the 60 Grit gets only a light touch unless i need to reduce the height of the cab more. I have had no chipping problems from the 60 grit sintered wheel.
|
|
|
|
Post by glennz01 on Feb 6, 2024 14:36:57 GMT -5
I hope to have some new info to contribute on this thread in about 6 months but it is too cool in my basement to time my cabbing. It will have to wait for warmer weather. It should be noted in the above that @hefty 's contribution is true on cabs as well as facet stones however it is more obvious on faceted stones than on cabs. I also grind with a heavy hand and for hogging material I like a 30 grit sintered Baltic Abrasive(BA) wheel. This leaves scratches about equal to a Diamond Pacific(DP) 60 grit plated hex wheel. The BA 30 Grit cuts about 11% faster than the DP 60 grit hex wheel. (from my testing the DP wheel was broken in, not new. In my experience the breaking process for the DP 60 grit and 80 grit plated wheels is about 100 - 150, 40x30 size agate cabochons. The 30 Grit sintered wheel from BA I ran about 250 cabs through the wheel to "break it in" before I started timing my grinding. I have now roughed out over 500 stones on the wheel and have found the break in time to be zero. One oddity the right half of the wheel has less chipping that the Left half. Chipping on the 30 grit is about equal to chipping from a new plated 60 grit wheel. I hog material from the top and grind only material where chipping wont matter. I then finish the rough out on a worn 80 grit hex plated wheel from DP. I purchased a 60 grit sintered wheel from BA as well and though it works well it is too slow for roughout work. I have used it with great success to take the dopped rough ground cabs and remove scratches from the 80 grit. the 60 Grit gets only a light touch unless i need to reduce the height of the cab more. I have had no chipping problems from the 60 grit sintered wheel. Yeah I though about a 30 grit but I think I'd need a different bench setup for that reason as I'll work agate and soft stuff (I like soft stuff lol) How does the 60 grit compare to the 80 grit in terms of scratch depth and time differences? It might still be ok to go from 60 to 1000 since the 1000 can take away a surprising amount of material. |
|
|
|
Post by glennz01 on Feb 6, 2024 14:40:26 GMT -5
That's interesting, the guy who sold me my first big saw and a combo cab machine gave me a "lesson" on a 15 minute cab (from dopped preform) and he used a 80/220hard/220soft/600/1200/3000/cerium setup on a Titan. DP used to make the 220 soft wheels for Rons Rocks on ebay, I plan to have a couple old 280 soft wheels recoated in 220 from a shop in Idaho to try. My first "production" setup, a 2 wheel 8" arbor with 60/600 hard and another with 2 expandos and belts was slow in comparison with a standard Genie I use now, but I also start with the 80 waffle wheel from J Bros for the mass material removal, then again to a 80 grit on the Genie if needed, and that speeds up the process some. Some materials can be arould 20 minutes a cab, others up to twice that, then there's intarsia and carving. Yeah soft wheels are fine generally, I've found though that it's just the transition from hard to soft wheel that's always the most time consuming, and that's what I eliminate. But a 30x22 oval super hard agate cab for instance, currently is roughly 2 min on each wheel. I'm hoping to make that time even less! |
|
|
|
Post by glennz01 on Feb 6, 2024 14:43:56 GMT -5
I'd think your not using much pressure? Sometimes I think I use too much pressure, in order to shape the preform and then the dome. But I try to not use much pressure at all on the grinding wheels, but I'm new to cabbing and the 80 to 220 to 280 wheels are my struggle. Are you saying I should use more, or less pressure? On my hard wheels, my unit (6 inch wheels) starts close to me and I find myself having to pull it back to me occasionally with agate materials. Yeah it might be slightly more wear but work load also goes up exponentially. |
|
gemfeller
Cave Dweller 
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,060 
|
Post by gemfeller on Feb 6, 2024 15:22:12 GMT -5
That's interesting, the guy who sold me my first big saw and a combo cab machine gave me a "lesson" on a 15 minute cab (from dopped preform) and he used a 80/220hard/220soft/600/1200/3000/cerium setup on a Titan. DP used to make the 220 soft wheels for Rons Rocks on ebay, I plan to have a couple old 280 soft wheels recoated in 220 from a shop in Idaho to try. That's somewhat similar to my set-up on the Genie. I used to buy 220 soft wheels directly from Ron when I lived close to him. Now I go 80 sintered, 150, & 240 hard, then 220, 600 and higher soft, to polish, depending on what I'm cutting. I don't cut 15 minute cabs but this method is lots faster than spending lots of time removing scratches on the big jump from 220 hard to 280 soft. |
|
ThomasT
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2022
Posts: 616
|
Post by ThomasT on Feb 6, 2024 17:50:01 GMT -5
A 60-grit sintered diamond 8" wheel on a CB8 cuts out a rough pretty fast over and over.
|
|
|
|
Post by glennz01 on Feb 7, 2024 0:16:00 GMT -5
A 60-grit sintered diamond 8" wheel on a CB8 cuts out a rough pretty fast over and over. Yeah, I've got 6 inch currently, I know 8 inch shpuld help be faster if the rpm is same |
|
|
|
Post by glennz01 on Feb 7, 2024 0:18:31 GMT -5
That's interesting, the guy who sold me my first big saw and a combo cab machine gave me a "lesson" on a 15 minute cab (from dopped preform) and he used a 80/220hard/220soft/600/1200/3000/cerium setup on a Titan. DP used to make the 220 soft wheels for Rons Rocks on ebay, I plan to have a couple old 280 soft wheels recoated in 220 from a shop in Idaho to try. That's somewhat similar to my set-up on the Genie. I used to buy 220 soft wheels directly from Ron when I lived close to him. Now I go 80 sintered, 150, & 240 hard, then 220, 600 and higher soft, to polish, depending on what I'm cutting. I don't cut 15 minute cabs but this method is lots faster than spending lots of time removing scratches on the big jump from 220 hard to 280 soft. Once I post videos of going 80 to 1,000 grit hard to hard. I suspect many people that care about time (or at least that see $70 for the wheel as cheap) will be ordering 1000 grit. I'm I'm hoping BA will make a 1000 grit, maybe if there's enough demand they will since I like their quality as I've only ever found 1k grit on Amazon usually 1 inch width instead of 1.5 inch |
|
gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,060
|
Post by gemfeller on Feb 7, 2024 1:54:36 GMT -5
That's somewhat similar to my set-up on the Genie. I used to buy 220 soft wheels directly from Ron when I lived close to him. Now I go 80 sintered, 150, & 240 hard, then 220, 600 and higher soft, to polish, depending on what I'm cutting. I don't cut 15 minute cabs but this method is lots faster than spending lots of time removing scratches on the big jump from 220 hard to 280 soft. Once I post videos of going 80 to 1,000 grit hard to hard. I suspect many people that care about time (or at least that see $70 for the wheel as cheap) will be ordering 1000 grit. I'm I'm hoping BA will make a 1000 grit, maybe if there's enough demand they will since I like their quality as I've only ever found 1k grit on Amazon usually 1 inch width instead of 1.5 inch I tried your 1000 grit method long ago. It worked well but diamond wheels were very expensive then and demand for my cabs was low so I developed other more economical techniques. I may try it again when the need arises. You can find 800 and 1200 x 1.5 inch plated wheels at Treasure Hong Kong <https://www.thk.hk> for $49 plus shipping. I think the total is around $65. I've used their wheels for years and like them a lot. Maybe those gits will work for you. |
|
|
|
Post by glennz01 on Feb 7, 2024 2:15:14 GMT -5
Once I post videos of going 80 to 1,000 grit hard to hard. I suspect many people that care about time (or at least that see $70 for the wheel as cheap) will be ordering 1000 grit. I'm I'm hoping BA will make a 1000 grit, maybe if there's enough demand they will since I like their quality as I've only ever found 1k grit on Amazon usually 1 inch width instead of 1.5 inch I tried your 1000 grit method long ago. It worked well but diamond wheels were very expensive then and demand for my cabs was low so I developed other more economical techniques. I may try it again when the need arises. You can find 800 and 1200 x 1.5 inch plated wheels at Treasure Hong Kong <https://www.thk.hk> for $49 plus shipping. I think the total is around $65. I've used their wheels for years and like them a lot. Maybe those gits will work for you. 800 grit would still be slightly too course, not sure if the 1200 would be just as efficient though might be similar. I have noticed many Lapidary things cisting less in recent years other than saw blades which went up lol |
|
realrockhound
Cave Dweller
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
Member since June 2020
Posts: 4,497
|
Post by realrockhound on Feb 7, 2024 12:57:32 GMT -5
Experimenting myself. One thing I’ve noticed is that going from a low grit to a high grit, then back through. The high grit masks the deeper scratches. Essentially smooths or buffs them out, but never really gets rid of them. Then as you go back through the stages, to the untrained eye, they aren’t noticeable. If you throw the cab under a loop, you can still see the scratches, they are just smoothed out.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rockoonz on Feb 7, 2024 13:30:55 GMT -5
gemfeller thanks for the report on THK, I have purchased other things from them on ebay but not their wheels. I think that there are probably lots of combinations of wheels that are ideal for specific hardness ranges and material types, alas my bench space and wallet cannot support them all.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rockoonz on Feb 7, 2024 13:31:42 GMT -5
If income for sales to support the habit is a goal, speed and efficiency are definitely an important factor, and should be pursued. I really think marketing and having a target for your customer base is a more difficult, but more productive goal. Turning a $5.00 slab into a $20.00 cab takes pretty much the same amount of time as turning a $20.00 slab into a $70.00 cab, if you have the attention of people who can turn it into a piece of jewelry they can sell for enough. There's a lot of room between those 2 points, with better return for your labor at every step. As was already said, if you don't want to compete with Chinese price points, don't cut the materials they do.
|
|
