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Post by vegasjames on Mar 23, 2024 9:30:19 GMT -5
Been using a cement mixer to tumble my larger rocks to clean off caliche and other coatings, to remove desert varnish and to soften the sharp chalcedonies.
Here are some of what I have learned.
The system is very loud. Have tried ideas to dampen the noise such as covering the barrel with insulation. Did not work well, so I did what I could to build a sound wall so the noise does not bother my neighbors.
The system is very messy. A lot of mud forms quickly, much of which sloshes out on the ground. I placed a large basin for ponds in front to catch a lot of the muddy water that flies out as well as to catch rocks that fly out of the mixer.
I did remove the mixing blades from inside the barrel so the rocks do not get flung around as much.
Larger rocks "float" to the surface near the opening while smaller rocks sink to the bottom, back of the cement mixer. This creates a problem of a lot of the mud and sand accumulates in the bottom cementing some of the smaller stones in the mud and sand. At the end of the day I pour out most the water, then roll the barrel little by little by hand searching for stones to pull and to scrape off as much of the sand and mud as possible. I find it also helps to occasionally spray in water using a jet stream and focusing the water stream on the back inside of the barrel to knock the mud and sand loose as the barrel is turning.
The grinding action is very fast with so much weight in the barrel. I have a lot of chalcedony that is very rough and sharp like coral. They get smoothed out in a couple of hours of tumbling. The rocks do not polish this way, but it does clean them up really well so I can see better what I have and what material will tumble well. Then I can decide what pieces to break up for regular tumbling, or what to slab up or trade as is
So far I have mainly done large rocks mixed with some smaller stones. Next week I plan to fill the barrel with all broken up material to see how this works with tumbling sized rough only. Hopefully will also smooth out the broken up material some before it goes in to the regular tumbling barrels, which should help protect the barrels some from sharp points and edges.
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johnthor1963
starting to spend too much on rocks
Cattle dogs rock
Member since June 2023
Posts: 236
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Post by johnthor1963 on Mar 23, 2024 10:47:51 GMT -5
Very cool idea don't worry about the neighbors by now there used to strange noises coming from your place lol.The fact that you try to keep the sound down is great but how would they know your experimenting with a new idea. 5 years ago mine stopped coming over to see what i was up to and i live on 8 acres. Now cutting rocks in pole barn don't even turn there heads they just figure he's up to something again lol. Sounds like you have a lot of good material you've collected to go thru good luck hope to get a glimpse of some of it . thx for sharing this awesome idea
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khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,979
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Post by khara on Mar 23, 2024 16:08:20 GMT -5
This is hilarious….and also ingenious. I think at this point you’ve become the epitome of an obsessed rock hound. Buying pond liners to catch flying mud and rocks.🤣 Building walls to try and deaden the sound. That’s actually quite thoughtful of you. There should be a tv show about people like us. I’d rather watch a guy trying to contain rocks flying out of a cement mixer than watch someone catch cat-fish bare handed. I’m impressed too that you can get such good clean up and shaping in just a few hours. Seems like you’ve found a good method to scale up your operations.👍
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khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,979
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Post by khara on Mar 23, 2024 16:11:29 GMT -5
Tommy ☝️There’s your logo!🤣
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ctxtumblebug
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2023
Posts: 65
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Post by ctxtumblebug on Mar 24, 2024 0:24:51 GMT -5
This is the best thing I've seen since sliced bread. A fantastic idea for smoothing out bigger rocks and it looks like it does the job rapidly. Perhaps a cover or a lid of some sort might help with the mess and noise.
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Post by vegasjames on Mar 24, 2024 1:00:10 GMT -5
This is the best thing I've seen since sliced bread. A fantastic idea for smoothing out bigger rocks and it looks like it does the job rapidly. Perhaps a cover or a lid of some sort might help with the mess and noise. Tried that. Took a trash can lid and attached it over the top with bungee cords. Did not dampen the noise much, and the bungee cords did not last long. Did help keep the rocks from flying out. Have to figure out some other cover that is easy to put on and off.
Once I go to smaller material that should drop the noise and keep the rocks from flying out. Added some more rough chalcedony today so want to run those for at least one more day, then I plan to empty the mixer out and fill it with smaller, tumbling sized pieces. Busted up more of the rocks today and took the hammer to chip off some if the bad areas of the rocks. So have enough of the small stuff now to fill the cement mixer.
Will be interesting to see what this does with the smaller pieces. Will definitely smooth the pieces out helping to protect the rubber barrels when I move pieces to the 17 pound barrels.
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zebra61
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2024
Posts: 161
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Post by zebra61 on Mar 24, 2024 7:54:53 GMT -5
This is great and I hope your neighborly thoughtfulness is appreciated. My neighbors never visit, they just send the Sheriff's Deputy over! I'm curious if there's any rhyme or reason to the loading capacity of the mixer? I'm sure you've experimented with sizes and fullness to get the best results. All I can say is 'Wow!'.  |
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whyofquartz
spending too much on rocks
So, Africa is smaller than I expected...
Member since December 2019
Posts: 318
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Post by whyofquartz on Mar 24, 2024 8:05:23 GMT -5
I have put some thought into this and I have a bit of experience with mixers. If this is a dedicated machine I would just weld on a hatch, maybe even just a ring that reduces the opening for tumbling but can be opened. I also think you need an agitator of some kind even if it is just welded texture that encourages movement towards the belly of the barrel, maybe chevrons. you could also cut the paddles down in height and length(if possible) just to help move the sludge off the bottom.
the other thing you can do that might help is to line it with flex seal to extend its life.
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Post by vegasjames on Mar 24, 2024 8:58:25 GMT -5
This is great and I hope your neighborly thoughtfulness is appreciated. My neighbors never visit, they just send the Sheriff's Deputy over! I'm curious if there's any rhyme or reason to the loading capacity of the mixer? I'm sure you've experimented with sizes and fullness to get the best results. All I can say is 'Wow!'.  I just keep adding rocks until they start kicking out frequently. That tells me it is too full and I pull a few rocks.
At the end of the day I rinse out most the mud and hand turn the barrel little by little to look for rocks that I am read to pull either because they are done as far as I want for now, or they need to chipped to clean up bad areas or to remove hard mud, because they are small enough for tumbling with other small rocks and I do not want them crushed in to noting by the big rocks flying around, their desert varnish or other coatings have worn off so the inside can be seen or they are ones I want to cut for cabbing.
A lot of times I pull rocks while the barrel is still turning since turning the machine off would still allow the barrel to turn for a short time and the rock I am after would get buried. So, I watch the stone I am after and snatch it out of the barrel as the stone is near the front and at the top so my hand does not get hit by the big rocks flying around. Once I have removed a bunch of the rock this way I add new fresh rock and keep repeating the process.
Some of the rock I break up in to smaller pieces for tumbling then throw those pieces back in for a while to smooth them out some. Then I remove them and set them aside. Now my pile of smaller material is sufficient to fill the cement mixer with just the normal sized tumbler pieces, and I will tumble those all by themselves in a few days when I finish up with rough chalcedonies and a few other larger rocks.
The smaller rocks are much less likely to kick out of the cement mixer compared to the large rocks that have edges that can catch the rim and more momentum to fly out.
I plan to run the smaller stuff for a few days then will probably separate out some of it to put in the 17 pound barrels for a while, which the current loads are just about ready to come out and go in to the vibe tumblers for a week.
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Post by vegasjames on Mar 24, 2024 9:10:08 GMT -5
I have put some thought into this and I have a bit of experience with mixers. If this is a dedicated machine I would just weld on a hatch, maybe even just a ring that reduces the opening for tumbling but can be opened. I also think you need an agitator of some kind even if it is just welded texture that encourages movement towards the belly of the barrel, maybe chevrons. you could also cut the paddles down in height and length(if possible) just to help move the sludge off the bottom. the other thing you can do that might help is to line it with flex seal to extend its life. If you weld a reduced opening, which would be great to keep the rocks from flying out, I would recommend cutting a few half circles along the edge to make it easier to drain the water, sand and mud from the barrel at the end of each day since the sand and mud accumulate and harden in the bottom even while running. This traps some of the smaller stones preventing them from tumbling.
Also to counter this I have been spraying a strong stream of water directed at the back inside of the barrel where the sand and mud accumulate to break these up while the barrel is turning. And the extra water helps slosh some of the mud out of the barrel, which would be trapped of you simply weld a reducer on the face. There needs to be some easy way for the muddy and sandy water to escape easier as you add more water, and to allow the sand and mud to be washed out easily at the end of the day when the mixer is stopped and the sand and mud is drained and rinsed out.
As for the mixer vanes I removed, I did initially use segments of old garden hose in their place for a lower profile. They lasted a little while before the rocks ripped them loose. Although, I find the vanes are not really needed. As you can see in the video, the rocks get moved quite well in the barrel without any vanes.
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Post by 1dave on Mar 24, 2024 9:25:50 GMT -5
Have you tried varying the speed?
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Post by vegasjames on Mar 24, 2024 10:03:02 GMT -5
Have you tried varying the speed? No, when I build the big rotary tumbler then I will make it variable speed, but the speed with the cement mixer seems to working fine. |
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Post by vegasjames on Mar 24, 2024 10:13:44 GMT -5
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whyofquartz
spending too much on rocks
So, Africa is smaller than I expected...
Member since December 2019
Posts: 318
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Post by whyofquartz on Mar 24, 2024 10:38:16 GMT -5
I have put some thought into this and I have a bit of experience with mixers. If this is a dedicated machine I would just weld on a hatch, maybe even just a ring that reduces the opening for tumbling but can be opened. I also think you need an agitator of some kind even if it is just welded texture that encourages movement towards the belly of the barrel, maybe chevrons. you could also cut the paddles down in height and length(if possible) just to help move the sludge off the bottom. the other thing you can do that might help is to line it with flex seal to extend its life. If you weld a reduced opening, which would be great to keep the rocks from flying out, I would recommend cutting a few half circles along the edge to make it easier to drain the water, sand and mud from the barrel at the end of each day since the sand and mud accumulate and harden in the bottom even while running. This traps some of the smaller stones preventing them from tumbling.
I was suggesting welding on a hatch with a smaller opening in it, so you have access to see in and toss rocks in, add water etc, but you can open it for cleanouts. I agree permanently reducing the opening would be unwise. I saw in a thread about reinforcing old tumbling barrels that flex seal stands up to tumbling pretty well. I Don't remember who posted that, might even have been you which would be embarrassing for me. |
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Post by vegasjames on Mar 24, 2024 10:45:46 GMT -5
If you weld a reduced opening, which would be great to keep the rocks from flying out, I would recommend cutting a few half circles along the edge to make it easier to drain the water, sand and mud from the barrel at the end of each day since the sand and mud accumulate and harden in the bottom even while running. This traps some of the smaller stones preventing them from tumbling.
I was suggesting welding on a hatch with a smaller opening in it, so you have access to see in and toss rocks in, add water etc, but you can open it for cleanouts. I agree permanently reducing the opening would be unwise. I saw in a thread about reinforcing old tumbling barrels that flex seal stands up to tumbling pretty well. I Don't remember who posted that, might even have been you which would be embarrassing for me. No, was not me. Tried Flex Seal and it was a disaster. The rocks tore it up right away and I had bits of flex seal embedded in the pits and cracks of the stones. Won't do that again.
I have used Goop to repair holes in rubber tumbling barrels and that holds up excellent. Just rub some on the outside as well as the inside of the crack or hole so that it also works its way in to the crack of hole and let dry thoroughly. Goop was originally made to resole running shoes, so it is very durable. Kind of like the super glue of silicone. Not fluid enough though to line a barrel easily. Maybe if it can be thinned out with some type of solvent first to make it more fluid.
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Post by vegasjames on Mar 24, 2024 10:52:17 GMT -5
Should have added that Flex Seal is just a plain old liquid rubber, which is not durable. Think in terms of a rubber eraser and how easily it breaks up with wear. It is not vulcanized rubber, like car tires, which is a much harder and more durable rubber.
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Post by jasoninsd on Mar 24, 2024 11:33:41 GMT -5
James...I can't get the "mad scientist" image out of my head! LOL  |
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whyofquartz
spending too much on rocks
So, Africa is smaller than I expected...
Member since December 2019
Posts: 318
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Post by whyofquartz on Mar 24, 2024 11:47:19 GMT -5
Should have added that Flex Seal is just a plain old liquid rubber, which is not durable. Think in terms of a rubber eraser and how easily it breaks up with wear. It is not vulcanized rubber, like car tires, which is a much harder and more durable rubber. I thought it was tree sealant, for pruning. Which it not being durable would make sense if it was |
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Post by velodromed on Mar 24, 2024 13:10:15 GMT -5
Thanks for posting this, James! You’ve answered a question that has been roaming around in my head for the last year. Every time I drive by a neighboring property and look at the portable cement mixer on the side yard, I’ve wondered if it would work for tumbling rocks. Now I know!!
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Post by vegasjames on Mar 24, 2024 19:15:04 GMT -5
James...I can't get the "mad scientist" image out of my head! LOL You should see my kitchen. Experiments all over the place. Just need to be careful what you grab to eat or drink. 
One year for Halloween I did go as a mad scientist. Had the outfit then I took a 1000ml Erlenmeyer flask and drilled a larger hole in the top to to fit a distillation column. then I corked the top and on the bottom hole I fitted glass tubing through another cork so the glass tubing extended down to the bottom of the flask. Then I filled the flask with electric blue Kool-Aid. When I sucked on the output of the distillation column, it created a small fountain in the distillation column filling it then coming out the output of the column. A unique mad scientist straw to drink the Kool-Aid.
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