noche
off to a rocking start
Member since August 2023
Posts: 13
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Post by noche on Sept 22, 2024 20:47:37 GMT -5
I was in utahs west desert. Pulled over for a break. Looked down ( of course, all rock hounds look down) and there is a piece of petrified wood. Into the bucket. I realized that they were grading the road with unscreened soil. The rock polished amazing. White brown black all shot with purple streaks. One of the prettiest pieces I have. I find where the rock was dug. The pit is on BLM ground. The BLM will sometimes give you a permit for rock very cheap. I call the BLM. The guy on the phone goes full on nuts. How dare I steal a rock. “ I better hope he doesn’t find out who I am” and my entire collection is subject to confiscation. I was in formed that all the rock I sell needs paper work showing where it’s from or I will be ticketed.
My question is to the group. Does everyone have paper work on all the rocks they sell? Is this the BLM attitude ever where?
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Mark K
Cave Dweller 
Member since April 2012
Posts: 2,818 
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Post by Mark K on Sept 22, 2024 22:04:30 GMT -5
That guy is an over-reaching asshole. Don't worry about him.
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titaniumkid
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2023
Posts: 499
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Post by titaniumkid on Sept 23, 2024 2:33:31 GMT -5
Got no idea because I'm in the wrong country, but I agree with Mark K. Class A jerk. You did the right thing by calling them to check, and then he treats you like that. Nice way to dissuade people from doing the right thing.
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RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,625
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Post by RWA3006 on Sept 23, 2024 7:03:23 GMT -5
The guy was a jack wagon and you should have gotten his name because they tone it down when you do this. The last I knew you are allowed to harvest 25 pounds of pet wood, plus one piece per year without permit. Maybe it was 50 pounds, my memory is foggy.
If you call them back get the name of the person you are talking to first thing and tell them you want accurate information for your notes along with their name. When they know you are taking names and making notes they will act somewhat decent.
How do I know this? My dad was the head forest ranger over the entire North slope of the Uintas and I have a sister who's a long time employee of the BLM and another who Has worked for the Forest Service for decades.
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Post by chris1956 on Sept 23, 2024 8:03:29 GMT -5
Unbelievable! I agree call back and get his name.
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Post by miket on Sept 23, 2024 8:53:50 GMT -5
I think here in Nebraska we're allowed 25 pounds of rock per trip and never had to get a permit...
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Post by chris1956 on Sept 23, 2024 9:53:39 GMT -5
Here in Missouri you can't take anything from state land. So basically you are limited to private property. In Michigan it is 25 pounds per year from state land. Basically, they don't bother you unless you take a rock larger than 25 pounds or try to break something off of a large rock.
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hypodactylus
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2021
Posts: 478
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Post by hypodactylus on Sept 23, 2024 11:32:13 GMT -5
I was in utahs west desert. Pulled over for a break. Looked down ( of course, all rock hounds look down) and there is a piece of petrified wood. Into the bucket. I realized that they were grading the road with unscreened soil. The rock polished amazing. White brown black all shot with purple streaks. One of the prettiest pieces I have. I find where the rock was dug. The pit is on BLM ground. The BLM will sometimes give you a permit for rock very cheap. I call the BLM. The guy on the phone goes full on nuts. How dare I steal a rock. “ I better hope he doesn’t find out who I am” and my entire collection is subject to confiscation. I was in formed that all the rock I sell needs paper work showing where it’s from or I will be ticketed. My question is to the group. Does everyone have paper work on all the rocks they sell? Is this the BLM attitude ever where? This guy clearly did not know what he was talking about and responded poorly. Collecting rock on Utah BLM land is 100% allowed, you are simply expected to follow the rules. Here is a link to a rundown of some rules: geology.utah.gov/popular/rocks-minerals/collecting-rules/ |
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Post by Rockoonz on Sept 23, 2024 12:45:06 GMT -5
Agreed the guy was a jerk and should not have a public service job.
That said, if I read correctly you found it in the road bed, which is kind of a no-no and possibly a sore spot in your region. Our club in OR has a thunderegg claim close to a forest service road, and claim raiders undermined the road with their digging, took a minute to get that smoothed over with the FS. Still no excuse for that individual.
As far as "proving" the origin of material you sell, that is the accusers burden, not yours.
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Post by amygdule on Sept 23, 2024 13:36:23 GMT -5
As I recall the collecting rules were 25 lbs a day, 250 lbs a year plus one big rock that may exceed those limits. Now, on the Oregon Coast you're allowed to collect a gallon a day with a limit of 3 gallons a year. A gallon of beach agates weighs about 15 lbs. That would limit you to 45 lbs a year. Back in the day when the rocks were rolling good, I could collect 45 lbs in an 8 hour day  |
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noche
off to a rocking start
Member since August 2023
Posts: 13
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Post by noche on Sept 23, 2024 22:33:24 GMT -5
I was in utahs west desert. Pulled over for a break. Looked down ( of course, all rock hounds look down) and there is a piece of petrified wood. Into the bucket. I realized that they were grading the road with unscreened soil. The rock polished amazing. White brown black all shot with purple streaks. One of the prettiest pieces I have. I find where the rock was dug. The pit is on BLM ground. The BLM will sometimes give you a permit for rock very cheap. I call the BLM. The guy on the phone goes full on nuts. How dare I steal a rock. “ I better hope he doesn’t find out who I am” and my entire collection is subject to confiscation. I was in formed that all the rock I sell needs paper work showing where it’s from or I will be ticketed. My question is to the group. Does everyone have paper work on all the rocks they sell? Is this the BLM attitude ever where? This guy clearly did not know what he was talking about and responded poorly. Collecting rock on Utah BLM land is 100% allowed, you are simply expected to follow the rules. Here is a link to a rundown of some rules: geology.utah.gov/popular/rocks-minerals/collecting-rules/ |
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noche
off to a rocking start
Member since August 2023
Posts: 13
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Post by noche on Sept 23, 2024 22:37:36 GMT -5
Thanks so much. I did call back reached a more level headed person. I cannot take petrified wood for any “ commercial “ use. That’s the rub here. I am sitting up a small rockshop. I will keep digging. I inherited rock and have purchased estate sales. I don’t have paper on my rocks. Does the blm show up at rich shows and check?
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Post by chris1956 on Sept 24, 2024 8:43:18 GMT -5
I think there was a thread some time ago. Not sure if the one below is what I was thinking of but it has some information on collecting on public lands. The requirement about not using for commercial use is also included in the Michigan state land rules. I suspect (know) that that requirement is regularly ignored or eyes turned away by local rock shops. The only time I remember someone getting in trouble was when they took a Petoskey stone much larger than 25 pounds and posted a picture of it somewhere on the internet. The State went after him pretty hard. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/103737/news-item-busted-digging-federal |
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RockyBeach
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2023
Posts: 342
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Post by RockyBeach on Sept 24, 2024 10:03:36 GMT -5
How does anyone know how much rock you have collected per trip ... or even harder...per year ? Is it like fishing where wardens can ask to see your license and frown at replies like "I don't have one, I am just teaching my pet worm how to swim". Does one need a paper giving permission to "hound" on state/federal lands? Casually picking up roadside rocks seems like something that should not possibly be challengeable .. depending on where the road is, is it ?
EDIT: State by State info about collecting in State Parks ... link
"No collecting" means ZERO rocks (or does it?) and how do they know whether that pretty rock in your glove compartment was picked up inside or outside the park? |
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realrockhound
Cave Dweller
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
Member since June 2020
Posts: 4,483
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Post by realrockhound on Sept 24, 2024 18:16:45 GMT -5
Dunno about where you’re at, but if you collect on blm land, it’s fine. You pay taxes on that land. Take whatever you want. Dudes clearly some hippie moonbat. Just reading this makes me want to slap the $h!t out of him.
I’ve ran into ranchers who run cattle on blm land. Basically told me I couldn’t be on the land. I say ok, I won’t. Turn around and go on it anyway.
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Post by chris1956 on Sept 24, 2024 18:38:18 GMT -5
Dunno about where you’re at, but if you collect on blm land, it’s fine. You pay taxes on that land. Take whatever you want. Dudes clearly some hippie moonbat. Just reading this makes me want to slap the $h!t out of him. I’ve ran into ranchers who run cattle on blm land. Basically told me I couldn’t be on the land. I say ok, I won’t. Turn around and go on it anyway. Were you with or without your sidearm?  |
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realrockhound
Cave Dweller
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
Member since June 2020
Posts: 4,483
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Post by realrockhound on Sept 24, 2024 19:06:42 GMT -5
Dunno about where you’re at, but if you collect on blm land, it’s fine. You pay taxes on that land. Take whatever you want. Dudes clearly some hippie moonbat. Just reading this makes me want to slap the $h!t out of him. I’ve ran into ranchers who run cattle on blm land. Basically told me I couldn’t be on the land. I say ok, I won’t. Turn around and go on it anyway. Were you with or without your sidearm? I always have it on me when I’m out. But I’d never use it in a dispute with some knob acting like public land is his property. Dude left then about 10 minutes later came back and was circling my truck. I was watching him from the ridge line taking photos of my plates. See.. They lease the land to run cattle. I understand his frustration from people going out there and shooting his water tanks and stuff, but telling me I can’t go on public lands because his cattle is on it is the most retarded thing I’ve ever heard. |
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WhiskeyZero
starting to shine!
Member since December 2017
Posts: 48
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Post by WhiskeyZero on Sept 26, 2024 9:31:04 GMT -5
How does anyone know how much rock you have collected per trip ... or even harder...per year ? Is it like fishing where wardens can ask to see your license and frown at replies like "I don't have one, I am just teaching my pet worm how to swim". Reminds me of a guy I used to work with out in a small town in a rural area. He grew up burning trash on a farm and when he moved into town he started burning his trash in his backyard. He quickly got a visit from the local sheriff who gave him a citation for burning trash in town. He found an old barbeque grill a few days later, filled it with trash, and burned it. The sheriff returned, angry that this guy was out there again burning trash in his yard. The guy told the sheriff "I'm starting my grill. Don't you dare come on my property and tell me how to cook my food". The sheriff stood there fuming for a minute then said "Good day, sir" and left. |
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ThomasT
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2022
Posts: 616
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Post by ThomasT on Sept 27, 2024 9:41:16 GMT -5
They do show up undercover at rock shows... I've seen it happen and it wasn't pretty.
They arrested and hauled a guy off for pet wood being sold that was determined to have been collected from government land without a commercial permit.
Edit: It was pet wood or dino bone... can't remember the which exactly. But it was a really bad day and aftermath for that guy. Wouldn't even let him cover his tables before they hauled him off.
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wargrafix
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2023
Posts: 1,085
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Post by wargrafix on Sept 27, 2024 13:24:51 GMT -5
They do show up undercover at rock shows... I've seen it happen and it wasn't pretty. They arrested and hauled a guy off for pet wood being sold that was determined to have been collected from government land without a commercial permit. Edit: It was pet wood or dino bone... can't remember the which exactly. But it was a really bad day and aftermath for that guy. Wouldn't even let him cover his tables before they hauled him off. How would they know that? |
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