calura
off to a rocking start
Member since June 2024
Posts: 21
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Post by calura on Oct 4, 2024 21:20:16 GMT -5
We're trying glass tumbling for the first time, still using the same grits as rock, but for much shorter times. It's a 3lb tumbler (NOT vibratory), with about 1/3 full of every size piece of glass that came off of the bottle when I busted it apart. It's all brown glass this time.
We're just now on stage 2 and I walked into the garage to find the tumbler blinking E and a gray stream across the floor. I looked closer, and the barrel had popped open and there were plastic beads, glass, and grey muck spilling out. It looks like it locked up the rollers, and that's what caused the tumbler to turn off.
When we were finished with stage 1, I noticed that the barrel (all rubber) was pushed OUTWARD on the bottom, like pressure had built up inside as it tumbled. When I tumble rocks, I often find the bottom of the barrel is concave (pulled inward) like the pressure dropped during tumbling. Does tumbling glass tend to build up a lot of heat or cause higher pressure for other reasons? Could this be why the barrel popped open this time? It had only been going for about a day in stage 2 when this happened. We ran Stage 1 for five days and it didn't pop open, it just expanded and pushed the rubber bottom outwards.
Now there's a tiny chance my husband could have messed up when putting the lid on this time too. I noticed he pushed the rubber-covered steel lid about 1/8" down INTO the barrel before putting the metal cap and wing nut on. Maybe it was too far into the barrel, didn't have enough traction, and opened that way. But the fact that it expanded during the last stage really has me wondering if that's the real problem. Can anyone give insight into this? Should I be saving glass for a vibratory tumbler (we're on a waiting list for a Thumler right now), or is there something I need to do differently for glass? I'd really like to tumble it all the way through a polish, instead of stopping on the early stages like most people seem to do.
I hit the power button when I saw the issue and the first thing it did was try to turn back *on* and the motor started up again (I thought I was turning it OFF, since it was blinking E on the LED screen). Since it went back to normal, the tumbler will probably be okay in the long run. I brought it inside and washed it completely with with soap and a scrub brush to dislodge all of the grit and plastic beads. It's now sitting in front of an industrial size floor fan. (I've cleaned and dried electronics like this many, many times before - it just has to sit there for a few DAYS in front of some really strong air to dry completely up before I plug it back in.) So the glass and plastic beads are back in the barrel, and resealed, and just sitting on my kitchen counter until the tumbler is ready again.
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Post by chris1956 on Oct 4, 2024 21:28:52 GMT -5
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calura
off to a rocking start
Member since June 2024
Posts: 21
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Post by calura on Oct 5, 2024 0:16:52 GMT -5
So much to go through and translate! It looks like some people have success with baking soda, others say NO WAY. Some have success with Borax, others, again, recommend against it. jamesp was right in one instance when he said there's not much out there that is NOT affected by vinegar or baking soda. I also breed and raise aquarium fish, so I'm familiar with that. The temperature thing probably helps a lot too. I intend to raise the temperature inside of the barrel before I actually put it back on the tumbler. Burping it occasionally might be harder, simply because it's "out of sight, out of mind" for us. We don't use the garage all that much, so we'd totally forget to check on it. Sometimes we forget that the tumbler is even due to be finished! I see james did have success using vinegar so I could try that. I am aware of limestone being very alkaline, so vinegar would have helped. And any stone on the acidic side probably gets helped by the baking soda (which explains why *some* people had success). I have an electronic PH meter so I can test the PH of the sludge and add the OPPOSITE of what ever the glass is producing to help neutralize it. I'll also do the less water thing. Liquids don't tolerate pressure change as much as air, so more air also means more "room" for increased pressure (this is also why brake fluid is LIQUID because it applies the pressure to the brake pads FASTER, and that's also why air in your brake lines is very bad, because there's too much "give" with it). I can't try sugar because I literally have none around the house (tossed it once finding out I'm diabetic, and got monk fruit and stevia, instead). But at least I know it's normal. I guess my husband probably *helped* the situation by pushing the cap in a bit further. And I did see someone say that pre-polish and polish phases don't really get affected, only grinding phases. Since we're on phase 2, we just need it to last for a few more days. I'm guessing that the dyes in glass are probably organic, too. Most dyes are. I'll talk with some friends who are MUCH more familiar with chemical reactions and see if they have any idea what reactions are happening inside that little barrel. |
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Post by chris1956 on Oct 5, 2024 5:12:59 GMT -5
As far as forgetting to check your tumbler, I have heard several people on the forum (and I do it too) say that they try to keep on a weekly schedule of changing their rotary tumblers every Sunday. Sunday tends to be a less busy and stressful day and I think you are more likely to remember it then or maybe it is just that you get into the habit of doing it on that day. Anyway it has seemed to work for me.
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RockyBeach
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2023
Posts: 342
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Post by RockyBeach on Oct 5, 2024 10:12:52 GMT -5
calura Once upon a time I read (or saw) the suggestion to add a TUMS or two to the barrels to avoid gas buildup. I used to do that but really saw no benefits or adverse reaction. I only once had any problem with a gassy run and have no idea why since the load of rocks was no different in composition from any of the others before or since.
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calura
off to a rocking start
Member since June 2024
Posts: 21
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Post by calura on Oct 5, 2024 21:28:20 GMT -5
As far as forgetting to check your tumbler, I have heard several people on the forum (and I do it too) say that they try to keep on a weekly schedule of changing their rotary tumblers every Sunday. Sunday tends to be a less busy and stressful day and I think you are more likely to remember it then or maybe it is just that you get into the habit of doing it on that day. Anyway it has seemed to work for me. This tumbler exploded after running for barely over a day. So I doubt it will last a week! |
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jamesp
Cave Dweller 
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,602
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Post by jamesp on Oct 5, 2024 21:30:39 GMT -5
calura Once upon a time I read (or saw) the suggestion to add a TUMS or two to the barrels to avoid gas buildup. I used to do that but really saw no benefits or adverse reaction. I only once had any problem with a gassy run and have no idea why since the load of rocks was no different in composition from any of the others before or since. The gas from glass builds most rapidly during coarse grind when removing the most material calura. The slurry from glass can get seriously alkaline, just short of fresh mixed concrete which is hard on human skin. Neutralizing attempts with acids can generate a lot of gas(acid poured on baking soda for instance)in many cases My final solution to gas expansion issues was flexible ballooning barrel caps. They balloon out when the gas built up pressure, the pressure was made visible by the ballooning warning you it was time to open the barrel and let the pressure escape. Many tumbler barrels do not have this option because the caps are rigid(like Lortone and Thumblers). The alternative is to open the barrel up every day or two to relieve the pressure which can be a bit involved on some barrel cap designs(i.e. multiple fasteners like Thumlers, detailed cleaning to have successful sealing like Lotrone). Hope this helps. |
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electrocutus
spending too much on rocks
Member since October 2020
Posts: 341 
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Post by electrocutus on Oct 9, 2024 9:09:19 GMT -5
This also happened to me the first time I tumbled glass. It makes a real mess!! :-(
I've had better luck afterwards by creating "negative pressure" on purpose when I close the barrel. Basically, since the barrel is rubber, I push down the barrel on a smooth rock or something similar before closing and sealing the lid, so that it makes the bottom concave. This gives a bit more room for the gas to expand inside the barrel. I still check it every day during the tumble. If the bottom starts to get rounded out, I open the lid and make the bottom concave again.
I have not tried adding anything in the barrel to combat the gas.
Good luck!
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calura
off to a rocking start
Member since June 2024
Posts: 21
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Post by calura on Oct 10, 2024 18:09:39 GMT -5
Basically, since the barrel is rubber, I push down the barrel on a smooth rock or something similar before closing and sealing the lid, so that it makes the bottom concave. I totally wish I had read this about 20 minutes ago! So the second attempt, putting boiling water from a tea kettle into the barrel, did indeed help. I left it in the barrel just long enough to warm everything up - the glass, the barrel itself, etc. Then I capped it and waited for it to cool COMPLETELY before putting it back on the tumbler. It didn't stop the problem completely. I started it up on Monday and checked it last night and the barrel had leaked. The area around the cap had the white residue from the leak (and remember, I scrubbed that tumbler motor, so it wasn't leftover from before). BUT, most of the water was still in it, and the barrel was still tumbling. However, after checking the glass itself, we decided it's ready for phase 3. There are no hard chips, fragments, or corners left on any of it. So I just loaded it again with the glass, fine (pre-polish) grit, and more boiling water. I capped it off immediately this time (too impatient, I guess) so there won't be as much negative pressure as last time. But then if these things don't happen during pre-polish, we should be good. I'm still a bit cautious just because the pre-polish is still silicone carbide. Maybe it's safer because it doesn't "scratch" as much each time it hits the glass? I'm sure the aluminum oxide polish will be just fine because it's even smaller, and has a completely different chemical composition. I also got the next stone in for tumbling today - chalcopyrite! Yes, yes, I know it turns gold again. But I have a bottle of nitric acid ready to re-colorize it after tumbling. I just need to go get the plastic container to set up out in the back yard to "dip" the stone into the acid after tumbling, and decide how much time to cut off of the tumbling for it. |
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