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Post by Cher on May 4, 2006 14:04:04 GMT -5
Herm look, Steffy's sticking his tongue out at you. I saw him, really I did. Smack him again, that was fun.
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Post by gemkoi on May 4, 2006 14:29:11 GMT -5
Well, My two cents on this topic would be to support Rick. To me, i started voting when i turned 18, in 1995. And vote in every race i can since. However, my view on being an American only became developed when i began voting. Everything prior was just what i was fed. I am sorry if anyone believes that if you dont support the image of you’re country, you should get out. To me, that’s one of the most unpatriotic things someone could be or do.
As well, it makes me mad that my experience in this type of discussion in many other forms leads to the same response about leaving if you dont agree with it. Or as i have been told by so many Pro Americans, "to find out, or figure out myself". As i post to many groups in politics to gain insight and direction.
But i continue to find that the people i should be looking up to, the ones that wear the patriotic badge so well. Only lie and have hate to breed. There for, i see my country as that. And why then should i support it, that’s not me? I want to change it for the better and to fix allot of the problems i see as a youngster, which needs serious fixing. Anyone who supported Bush tax cuts doesn’t care about their children. Because they will be the ones that will suffer the most because of our current mistakes in this war and image that inst American. In my 29 years of life as an American, the last 6 years was the frist time i have ever been un proud to be one. And 9/11 made it worse. Because when something like that happens, I look at myself, why do this people really hate us so much. And your lying to yourself if you say if because of our freedom.
And that doesn’t mean i will leave it, it means i will help try and fix it. Because its all our fault for letting it go on, and on, and on, and on. Now, there conspiracy on all levels, it what’s feeds allot of direction for all sides. And we are not a Christian Nation, we are a free nation? Because as it was explained to me about why are there in Iraq. “We are there to stop a neighbor from beating his wife”, but it’s the milkman who really did it, and he going house to house still. The neighbor was just an egomaniac, who actually was good friends with the Family who is running this country now. I wasn’t into politics back in the 80’s. But the fact is we are responsible for allowing Suddam to be as he was. We are the only fault of our ways. But even more so for now making Terrorism, one of the hottest jobs for 2006. Yes, folks, we are at a 20 year high in terrorism, we are creating more of them through this war of ours. How is that making out country more safe?
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lithrick
no posts
Member since July 2006
Posts: 0
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Post by lithrick on May 4, 2006 14:30:30 GMT -5
There is a saying that the vast majority of people are unwilling to investigate what is true and what is not true, for fear it will exclude them from the accepted norm. If one learns a truth that makes one uncomfortable, they will usually ignore it or find some way to reason it out so that "gee, it's really not that bad", and all for the sake of making their lives more comfortable. Investigating and speaking the truth is a very, very uncomfortable thing. I'm certainly not comfortable being on this thread, but I ain't leaving. The more mud you throw my way, the longer I will stick around. The number one reason, Cher, that I do not leave this country, is to be a thorn in the side of anyone who accepts lies to make their life more comfortable. I am succeding in that quite well here; no need to go anywhere. Also, this IS MY HOME. Part of a country I like or not, I AM NOT leaving it. >No steel structure building has EVER collapsed due to fire. Any scrutinizing eye can clearly see that the World Trade Centers were carfully and professionally imploded. >At the altitude Flight 93 was cruising during the supposed cell phone conversations, cell phone calls would have been impossible. Besides, why would the husband have told his wife "Let's roll!"? Now, the film "United 93" gets all the best reviews. No wonder. It is government sponsored propaganda. >The crash site of Flight 93 was sealed off INSTANTLY, not quickly or even immediately. No wonder. The wreakage was spread out over an 8 mile area! There was not a single crater as they would have you believe. The reason is is that it was shot down; there are eyewitness accounts. >There was more than enough time for the three planes that hit their marks to have been intercepted and shot down. Only Flight 93 was shot down. >A former military commander has recounted his experience with Cheney in the bunker on 9/11. Cheney was becoming annoyed because people kept asking him if the order stands. He growled "you haven't heard anything different, have you???!!!". The order was not to intercept those other three flights. >One plane conveniently hits the section of the pentagon that was least populated due to remodeling. Too conveniently. >When Bush was first informed of the plane striking one of the WTC towers, he showed no surprise or concern. How nice of him to stay with those little children so he could hear out their story about the goat. He knew it was coming. >Arrogant, non-compromising, unconditional nationalism (what many so nicely call "patriotism") is the very thing that made Nazi Germany the incredibly powerful force it was in the late 1930s. It is extremely disturbing that Americans are repeating that very same blind nationalism. There was the Roman Empire. It fell. There was the Byzantine Empire. It fell. There were the Spanish and the British Empires. The British Empire still survives in a clandestine form. The United States of America is in the process of building its empire. It has a long way to go and will be around a long time. Who knows how many nations the U.S.A. can so nicely take "democracy" to (with bombs, bullets, and lies). Once the U.S.A. kills off enough of the naysayers, it can "make the world America". Won't it be paradise, then?
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Post by hermatite on May 4, 2006 14:42:50 GMT -5
Well...I know someone who died in the Pentagon. And I know others who helped rescue survivors. And I've seen the video too Lithrick...no doubt the same one you're quoting. But I won't get into it here. I do work with Professors of Physics who will explain how and why those buildings fell. But. I won't convince you. You won't convince me. I respect your right to disagree.
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lithrick
no posts
Member since July 2006
Posts: 0
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Post by lithrick on May 4, 2006 14:54:17 GMT -5
Thank you, Freeform, for your writings. It is hard to stay calm when you are being attacked, but reading what you wrote helped. Your writing was intelligent, thoughtful, and well put-together.
Also, thank you, Jolene, for your thoughts as well.
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blarneystone
spending too much on rocks
Rocks in my head
Member since March 2010
Posts: 307
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Post by blarneystone on May 4, 2006 15:11:51 GMT -5
Wow - I'm pretty amazed at your outlandish remarks Lithrock. I think you have accomplished your goal of being a 'thorn in the side'...( more like a pain in the ass) at least on this board. Your accusations don't seem to be based in any sort of reality. In fact I think you're just trying incite the good folks here on this board ...some of which are veterans or have children currently overseas. You may want to back up your conspiracy 'theories' with some cold hard facts bud. 'Former Military Commander' is pretty vague and doesn't lend much credence to your paranoid delusions. Your remarks about flight 93 are way out of line. Were you there? Are you a member of the NSA or CIA? Do you know Dick Cheney? Are you a member of Skull & Bones? Illuminati? One of the enlightened brotherhood? Where do you get this stuff? YOU should remember that BLOGS are NOT valid news sources...maybe try picking up a real newspaper every once in a while! What good to think will come from badgering the members of this board? Here's a link to a more appropriate site for you. fusionanomaly.net/anomalog/Go back to your UFO conspiracy web sites and leave these good folks alone! Your just going to find yourself ignored or banned. I don't think that anyone here would hesitate to stand up against our government if they thought that we were being deliberately 'sold out'. While I agree that the current administration has done some pretty shady things and we could do with a good house cleaning...your attitudes about the flag and the pledge of ALLEGIANCE to this country are only meant to be disrespectful. How is it that you claim it's a protest when no one knows what your protesting? Are you protesting the flag? Freedom? the government? The President? the War? Illegal Immigration? what? ....no one knows!! All we know is that you're showing blatant disrespect for your fellow Americans and those who came before and fought for your freedoms. Would you rather be raising your arm and shouting 'Hiel Hitler' or living under Japanese rule? What about the generation who sacrificed everything to keep you free from communism and socialism? Why not look at it a different way? Take off your hat to honor those who gave there LIVES to grant you the freedom to make the choice; hat on or hat off. NO...your arguments don't have any validity..it only sounds like so much whinning...take it somewhere else dude... Oh BTW...when was the last time you wrote your congressman to express your concerns about your conspiracy theories?.... yep...that's what I thought...never.
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Post by Cher on May 4, 2006 15:19:20 GMT -5
Yadda yadda yadda Rick ... talk your garbage all you want. You still didn't have the courage to honestly answer my question.
Shain, dissing the country and not being patriotic is not how you fix things.
I'm through with this bs .... Mark, lock this thread so we can all get on with our lives and try to forget the bull that's flying!
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lithrick
no posts
Member since July 2006
Posts: 0
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Post by lithrick on May 4, 2006 15:28:51 GMT -5
BlarneyStone, Write to congressman? They don't give a rat's ass about what you or I as individuals think. They simply go with the flow so they can get re-elected. I did write to them a few times and got mass-printed "thank you" notes back. My brother has made the exposure of our corrupt government, lies about the current "war"(more like an NFL team going to play against a pee-wee team and calling it a game), and the lies about 9/11 his passion. I had done some reading and research on my own, but his research and communications with many different folks (many retired military personel) is unbelievable. I hope to work with him to present you with the cold hard facts you asked for. I'm specifically protesting MINDLESS CONFORMITY. That is what it all boils down to. "My mother and father raised me right, I respect the flag blah blah blah.....". Think for yourselves and investigate the other possibilities, no matter how unpalatable they may seem. Quit being a lemming.
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blarneystone
spending too much on rocks
Rocks in my head
Member since March 2010
Posts: 307
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Post by blarneystone on May 4, 2006 15:29:44 GMT -5
Cher - I Hate to disagree with you but locking the thread is not the answer. In fact it smacks of censorship. Rick has the right to express his views and we have the right to disagree with him.
However, I do agree that if Rick is so fed up...he should do something positive about it. Expressing discontent in a disrespectful manner is no way to accomplish anything and only incites people to anger as has been demonstrated on this thread. Heck I might be inclined to entertain some of those accusations if he could present some facts to back 'em up...so far that hasn't happened....
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blarneystone
spending too much on rocks
Rocks in my head
Member since March 2010
Posts: 307
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Post by blarneystone on May 4, 2006 15:32:47 GMT -5
So Lithrock...your saying that showing respect to the country of your origin during the Anthem is mindless conformity? That's a pretty big leap dude...and frankly I resent it. I am by no means a mindless conformist but I know the difference between blatant misguided disrespect and social activism.
BTW - I'm certainly no Lemming...were you at the Ranch in Crawford? I'm probably on several 'lists' because I too speak my mind. You're jumping to conclusions which discredits anything else you might have to say....
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lithrick
no posts
Member since July 2006
Posts: 0
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Post by lithrick on May 4, 2006 15:35:12 GMT -5
Disrespect is for that which is not deserving of respect. If I've presented views in a disrespectful manner, well, then...
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Post by hermatite on May 4, 2006 15:35:23 GMT -5
Besides, if its locked, how am I going to get to have the last word?
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Post by krazydiamond on May 4, 2006 15:42:27 GMT -5
i think you did have the last word, Herm (and a good one it was too).
insightful as always, have a great day tomorrow are you taking it off work?
KD
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blarneystone
spending too much on rocks
Rocks in my head
Member since March 2010
Posts: 307
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Post by blarneystone on May 4, 2006 15:46:06 GMT -5
Disrespect is for that which is not deserving of respect. If I've presented views in a disrespectful manner, well, then... ....well, then what?.... we can all go jump? Who are you to judge what is 'worthy' of respect? You're sounding more and more like a misinformed, misguided, delusional hot head with no real substance to any of your 'reasons' for being disrespectful. I'm not gonna let this one go either Rick.
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Post by Original Admin on May 4, 2006 15:46:55 GMT -5
Well - the thing is - that this bit of the board is about "Life the Universe and Everything". So really I guess..... - i'll rely on us members to just realise that : non of us really has the answer to a) the original topic b) any topic stemming from the original topic c) any view which is held by another person when we disagree I got wound up here too sometimes - then felt bad the next day and deleted posts. Its best to just be aware that people have different thoughts about stuff. No rights or wrongs - just different. The world would be a boring place if all we had was Carnelian. Can we chill out - without me locking threads - the thing is I dont want to to be honest (lock a thread that is - not chill out - im chilled out already despite the kitchen.)
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Post by gemkoi on May 4, 2006 17:13:11 GMT -5
I agree Mark and Blarney, Locking this thread wouldnt prove any of the better, just the same which is the cause of so many failures we see in modern Society.
Cher; Question, that is all. If you read my post, you would understand that is all i am doing currently. Outside of listening and voting, I question. Here in this thread, i commented. As i dont plan to fix anything about changing the song or flag, or why one wants to. I want to know more. But if my questioning shows more liars than truth sayers. Which all are American and being in the "American Way" is the only way. I don’t want to be a lair to anybody, not even myself. I just dont want to see this country turn into the very thing we all despise. Are we not responsible for creating more Terrorist? Can we just lock all their minds so we feel safer? Questions is how you fix things, it’s the frist step is it not?
Blarney, i personally think Rick’s comment on Mindless conformity is about not questioning anymore. I didn’t know the part about under god was writing in recently, and not part of the original, Why we picked it as our song. I never thought to question it because honestly, even in school it never had any merit after 6 grade. Remember, this is different for today’s youth, and though I will turn 30 this year, I have allot of young peers that all think very similar, it what we learned in school. The only young peers I have that would support what our country is doing without questioning it are doing it for one reason, the real American Religion, Money.
Do you think our for fathers would of picked the song if that was in there? I dont because i know how hard they tried in keeping church out of government. Which we all should know if you took American History in highschool, if you didn’t know how hard they kept church out of government, then you need to question it. And now its in there more than ever, but it not everyone church. So wouldnt you want to question that? Even if your are a church goer? Isn’t that one of our responsibilities/duties as an America? What if it came up as a vote, and Muslims took the win for a federal religion. Would you care? I wouldn’t if they won, I would if such a vote really came up. But I would be most concerned if they took control of our homeland security, or ports around the country.
My father is a hardhead republican conseritive, doesn’t question anymore, and I love him still very much. But the real sad thing about it is noone on the opposite side can discuss with him about current events. Because A; he never has facts, and B; he never questions common since. I am not saying you don’t, or saying similar people cant be found on all sides. I am from a family of 7, in which only my Father is like this, and is a stereotype of the Mindless conformity Rick speaks about protesting. And let me tell ya, i know who would win that battle with my dad, my dad would, because the volume would get so bad, you would just have to leave the room anyway, even if your on his side. Lol That’s his tactic for winning an political discussion.
We just all remember, no matter what the topic of discussion is, most likely its an opinion. And in threads like this, such opinions are known to always go many ways. Respect is that for which we give ourselves. Just remember our frist amendment. Noone is trying to change that.
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Post by docone31 on May 4, 2006 17:33:53 GMT -5
This is great! Perhaps Occum's Razor?
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Post by Cher on May 4, 2006 17:41:15 GMT -5
You're right of course, locking the thread isn't the answer. However, I will do as Mark asks and "chill" by leaving this thread to others and staying in the other forums where I might be of some help to someone. This is just too much like family bickering and I don't like to see the family fighting and disrespecting each other, myself included.
Herm, you have my permission to have the last word. *smile* Go for it girl!!
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blarneystone
spending too much on rocks
Rocks in my head
Member since March 2010
Posts: 307
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Post by blarneystone on May 4, 2006 18:04:38 GMT -5
Shain - I couldn't agree more...question everything. I think that because I am saying that it is disrespectful for someone to 'turn there back' on the flag during the anthem that some would say I am a mindless conformist. You can't possibly know how far away from the truth that is. I live in Texas, a Republican majority state and I have spoken out against the G.W. Bush administration from the very beginning and was very unpopular with family and friends...funny how that's all changed now. Went to the Ranch in Crawford to show my support for the folks who's children are dying in an unfounded, unjust, profit-driven war. But I take offense at those who think it's 'open season' on all things American. If the words 'one nation under God' offends you than simply 'insert Deity here' no one is forcing anyone to worship my God or anyone elses..that's why it's called freedom.
I just think that inciting people to anger by showing disrespect is wrong, destructive, and serves no purpose.
WHY...in the pursuit of political protest do you have to insult someone?? My point here is that political protest can be accomplished with out disrespecting the ones who have sacrificed everything to give you and I the freedoms we enjoy.
I'm somewhat familiar with American History and it's a little known fact that most of the founding fathers were Free Masons...John Adams, a Unitarian. Most shunned the Protestant Calvinist philosophies...however, even Free Masons believe in a Supreme Being as it is the only requirement for entry. There has always been, in America, a 'public' religion..there are good reasons for that..too numerous to mention here..but if your interested in American history, look it up..Ben Franklin gives a great explanation.
I've said my piece..I'm not trying to attack anyone...i'm just trying to help some see the situation differently. Like Mark said..(well sort of)... the Truth is like a cut diamond...it has many facets.
Namaste..
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blarneystone
spending too much on rocks
Rocks in my head
Member since March 2010
Posts: 307
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Post by blarneystone on May 4, 2006 18:08:12 GMT -5
LOL Doc - Ockham's Razor .. the KISS principle huh?...agreed. Shutting up now
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