lithrick
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Member since July 2006
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Post by lithrick on May 5, 2006 12:22:55 GMT -5
This is a general apology to all who I have offended on this thread. I am sorry and offer you my sincerest apologies.
My views are pretty much the same, but by the simple act of reading Gaetz's last post and considering what he had to say; well, I was blown away. He made so many good points that he's almost got me half wanting to help put up flags at the cemetery for Memorial Day. By The-Gods, did I actually just say that?
I may still post some bits of information (with references, not just "he said this, she did that") regarding the 9/11 conspiracy theories, but not with the intention of infuriating anybody. They will be there for you to consider, or even ignore if you wish. I invite folks to give me opposing views and writings so that I may consider the arguments going the other way. It is only fair and proper to do so.
Again, sorry for the hotheadedness and really scathing attitude. I really hope to learn from this.
I sincerely thank you all for hanging in there and not shutting me out completely.
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Post by BAZ on May 5, 2006 12:23:41 GMT -5
Doc said it and I'll add to it. Isn't is great that we can have this discussion and not have The Stormtroopers of Death knocking our doors down!?!?! Sure to happen in places outside of our great country eh? Adding to the redneck humour, we went to my sister-in-law's wedding in the panhandle of Florida. During the reception her brother, my bro-in-law turned to us and said, "You know your a redneck when your sister gets married at the Comfort Inn and has the reception in a triple-wide." Which is exactly what happened. God bless 'em! ;D
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Post by hermatite on May 5, 2006 12:52:21 GMT -5
And I too will offer my apologies if anyone was offended. Thanks Rick. I think you definitely should post the video link, or, if you prefer, I'll do it. I think it never hurts anyone to have a little perspective about what other people are thinking about or where they're coming from.
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Post by gaetzchamp on May 5, 2006 13:46:18 GMT -5
Wow, wasn't that a quick turn of events. It's always good to voice an opinion, have it out, and walk away better men/women.
Gaeter
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offbeat
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Member since May 2010
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Post by offbeat on May 5, 2006 14:26:30 GMT -5
Rick, If I may add, please take into account when you make statements about Sept 11th that there were around 3,000 victims that were killed in a blink of an eye. When you take into account family, friends and co-workers there were thousands and thousands of people that were very much effected then and still are. I lost several friends on that day and even to this day there are hundreds of people that were on site and are dyeing from what they were exposed to in the days after doing what they could to help. This can be a very personal subject for some, very close to home. I hope this wasn't your intention. Regards, Bill
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lithrick
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Member since July 2006
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Post by lithrick on May 5, 2006 15:26:24 GMT -5
Bill, What you have written here is so true, and a factor I had completely lost sight of. I definitely did not set out to add additional trauma to those whose lives were so directly affected by the events of that day. This will be something I must keep in mind for the future in discussing 9/11 events. For many, as you pointed out, it is SO much, much more than just a controversy or a disturbing bit of history. Many of the personal wounds will never heal completley, and can so easily be re-opened.
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offbeat
no posts
Member since May 2010
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Post by offbeat on May 5, 2006 15:41:52 GMT -5
Good for you, Rick. Now I must return to the rocks........ So many rocks, so little time.....
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Post by cpdad on May 5, 2006 16:28:55 GMT -5
ya..gaetz...it was a quick turn of events...i think..BILLYBOB..BOO..BUBBA..and..COOTER...put the word out
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Post by Condor on May 5, 2006 17:22:06 GMT -5
This is a general apology to all who I have offended on this thread. I am sorry and offer you my sincerest apologies. My views are pretty much the same, but by the simple act of reading Gaetz's last post and considering what he had to say; well, I was blown away. He made so many good points that he's almost got me half wanting to help put up flags at the cemetery for Memorial Day. By The-Gods, did I actually just say that? I may still post some bits of information (with references, not just "he said this, she did that") regarding the 9/11 conspiracy theories, but not with the intention of infuriating anybody. They will be there for you to consider, or even ignore if you wish. I invite folks to give me opposing views and writings so that I may consider the arguments going the other way. It is only fair and proper to do so. Again, sorry for the hotheadedness and really scathing attitude. I really hope to learn from this. I sincerely thank you all for hanging in there and not shutting me out completely. The mark of an upstanding guy. Any lesser person would be too proud to make a statement like that. We may not have the same philosophies, but you're all right in my book LithRick. Condor
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Post by Cher on May 5, 2006 18:18:20 GMT -5
I am so happy to see the apologies and honesty showing up in this thread. Thank you Rick, it made my day to read this.
Thank you to everyone and I too, add my apologies if I offended anyone at all, please forgive me. My bad got let lose somehow, it happens now and again even if I try to keep it locked up. I promise to try and do better in the agreeing to disagree dept.
Cher
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Post by Original Admin on May 5, 2006 18:32:51 GMT -5
I hope that one day everyone feels like I dooooo - chilled and smooth about things. By things - I mean like this threads issues - they are soooo rough and chipped its not true. I got my brothers telescope and can see the moons craters with it - and all the shadows and what not. I can see ***with my own eyes*** things that many humans down here never get to see. Granted I cannot go to the moon - but the detail is fantastic. I can see the mountains on the moon - and the craters aswell - it is my understanding that no telescope on earth can actually see the American (capital A) Flag on there. But I feel sure it is. Absolutely and TOTALLY 100% OVERRIDING ALL THIS TRIVIAL STUFF REGARDING THAT WHICH IS IN THIS THREAD IS ONE THING (well dudes in my eyes anyway - and im serious). When I look through the telescope at the moon - it moves across my view sooooooooooo smoooooooooooooothly its not true. I cant hold the moon in view for more than 60 seconds before it ***glides*** by and exits my view. It is indeed a beautiful sight to see a large object floating by with such grace and unassuming beauty. Ahhhh - I say to myself - but then that is what the Universe is all about - and small matters down here such as the seemingly terrible things inflicted on our fellow human beings must merely be a trivial matter. However one may say that the pain felt by the individual fighting for his cause at the mere age of 10 years old by throwing stones at troops from another world - yes that pain as his elbows are smashed with a large stone in the wrong direction - OUCH. Well basically Ive seen it all - and so have all of us here. We have friggin seen it all - yeah - we have all heard it all aswell. So when youve seen and heard it all - what do you do? You just smile. And then you sing this. "Always look on the bright side of life" de do de do de do de do de do. "Always look on the bright side of life" de do de do be do be do. Hahhhh - having said this - if anyone ever shut my Queen out of anything - I'd be upset (NOT) Every one of us is here on this planet to HAVE FUN - and NOT BE FRIGGIN RULED. So chill and DONT BE RULED. Well theres my take on it - the double helix of the DNA will probably take my kid somewhere else
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KG1960
has rocks in the head
Member since August 2008
Posts: 512
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Post by KG1960 on May 5, 2006 19:31:01 GMT -5
Mark, couldn't have said it better.
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Post by cpdad on May 5, 2006 20:15:06 GMT -5
ah yes..just smile..100 percent agree
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agatenut
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since August 2004
Posts: 127
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Post by agatenut on May 6, 2006 6:49:12 GMT -5
Mark,
I've BEEN to the moon.....during college.....smoked some REALLY good stuff!!! ;D
ralph
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sherry
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2006
Posts: 102
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Post by sherry on May 6, 2006 8:10:53 GMT -5
Our constituion, and it's bill of rights say that Rick's right to feel the he feels, are God given. So if one doesn't believe in God, then he can't support the idea that he has those rights, correct?? Neither our Constitution, nor the Bill of Rights, mentions God at all. It is, in fact, the Declaration of Independence that mentions "Nature's God" and the "Creator". Both of these terms are ambiguous and are open to the interpretation of the reader. Every organized religion has a major deity, one god, or creator. Even Wiccans have The One. What makes everyone assume that Thomas Jefferson was referring to the Christian God? (Before you make the assumption that Thomas Jefferson was a hard-core Christian, do a little research. Read some of his writings.)
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inflight22
has rocks in the head
Member since January 2006
Posts: 710
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Post by inflight22 on May 6, 2006 9:01:17 GMT -5
You are so right, Sherry.
jj
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KG1960
has rocks in the head
Member since August 2008
Posts: 512
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Post by KG1960 on May 6, 2006 21:20:00 GMT -5
Along these same lines, read "The Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine
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inflight22
has rocks in the head
Member since January 2006
Posts: 710
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Post by inflight22 on May 6, 2006 21:50:49 GMT -5
Could you give a brief explanation, please, as I am not familiar with that book.
jj
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thehawke
freely admits to licking rocks
My Lord and Master
Member since January 2006
Posts: 866
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Post by thehawke on May 7, 2006 13:37:00 GMT -5
OK sorry, I can't go through the whole thread for lack of time but I think I have read enough to at least get my blood boiling, if nothing else.
Clinton may have lied but many of our soldiers or citizens of other countries died for his marital indiscretion?
If I don't join lockstep in agreement that this country is just freaking awesome then I should just leave? Nevermind that I and like, 3 generations of my family served in the military? OK so I like the country all right. It is a beautiful place. But many of the people in it are working extremely hard to make sure I am disallowed basic civil rights that many of you take for granted.
I have been with the same woman sharing and building our lives together for 11 years (on May 25). We share expenses to the point where she is refinancing her home to pay the $40k+ for my oral surgery (implants since I can no longer wear dentures). We shared the pain of raising her 3 kids and now share in the joy of having them come visit and share their lives with us. We share everything that many of you share with your spouse. And yet we are missing out on over 1000 rights that would be granted to us with marriage because SOME people claiming to work for God say "He" doesn't want us getting married.
You see, my wife and I are a threat to the institution of marriage. Yet in the time we have been together, my sister has been divorced twice. She is now on her 3rd husband and I THINK she finally got it right.
And can I just say it took our state 30 YEARS to pass nondiscrimination protection for the LGBT community in housing, employment, banking, etc? Before this bill was signed this year, I could have been fired simply for being gay. It has happened to me before. I tend to be a stellar employee and yet if someone didn't like that whom I choose to spend my life with is the same sex as me, I was fired. And yes I was told that was why.
Bill O'reilly says that equal civil rights do not need to be given to the gay community because at most, there are only 6% of us in the population anyway so we should just sit down and shut up. I guess that he forgot that the reason the constitution was written the way it was, was to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.
As far as this government goes? I Have never seen such a crooked group of thieves in my life, and I grew up with the Watergate trials! Someone explain to me why my mother is now paying MORE for medicare under this new health plan. Someone explain to me why this government absolutely REFUSES to dis-incent the oil companies from gouging us. Someone explain to me why this government flat-out LIED to get us into an unnecessary war and THEN purposely OUTED the CIA operative charged with finding out what was going on with the nuke program in Iran (THAT is what Valerie Plame was working on when she was outted).
Enjoy our civil rights? You mean the ones where the government can wire-tap you without a warrant? The ones where they can go into any library and look up your reading habits? The one where the president can declare you an enemy combatant if you look at him funny and they can ship you off to gitmo or any number of their secret prisons with NO chance of due process?
As far as god goes, well, are you really saying that someone who doesn't believe in a monotheistic "higher power" white guy with white beard in the sky controlling everything we do should leave the country? You do realize that the First Amendment was written for the very purpose of PROTECTING religion from government interference, don't you? (Well, amongst other things the FA grants us, like freedom of association, freedom of the press (HAHAHAHA!), freedom of religion). The Founding Fathers (and mothers) saw how corrupt the church got when the government had a say in it and they did not want to repeat the same mistake here.
Call me a commie, call me a dyke, call me whatever you want but until I get the same exact rights that you currently enjoy, don't call me happy to be in this country. And no, I am not leaving. I will continue to fight the good fight until I DO get those same civil rights you can so casually take for granted.
I will and do, however, stand for our Anthem with my hand over my heart. It seems lots of the Seattle baseball fans do so. Imagine that, a liberal hippie city like Seattle actually honoring the National ANthem. I do not stand and sing "god bless america" because my mind inserts the rest of the sentence in there "and screw the rest of the world." Guess that's the commie cynic in me.
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KG1960
has rocks in the head
Member since August 2008
Posts: 512
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Post by KG1960 on May 7, 2006 15:09:55 GMT -5
To Inflight22 and Sherry: Here are some excerpts from Thomas Paine's "The Age of Reason". Remember that he was a key figure in the American Revolution and wrote "Common Sense", a treatise on the moral right of the people to revolt against tyranny.
THE AGE OF REASON
"It has been my intention, for several years past, to publish my thoughts upon religion ; I am well aware of the difficulties that attend the subject, and from that consideration, had reserved it to a more advanced period of life. I intended it to be the last offering I should make to my fellow citizens of all nations…………….
I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond this life.
I believe the equality of man, and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow creatures happy.
But, lest it should be supposed that I believe many other things in addition to these, I shall, in the progress of this work, declare the things I do not believe, and my reasons for not believing them.
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
I do not mean by this declaration to condemn those who believe otherwise; they have the same right to their belief as I have to mine. But it is necessary to the happiness of man, that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe………."
Thomas Paine, 1794
"Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst, every other species of tyranny is limited to the world we live in; but this attempts to stride beyond the grave, and seeks to pursue us into eternity." T. Paine
To The Hawke: Right on! So Clinton was wrong to have an extramarital affair and lie about but none of our soldiers died because of it, 100,000 plus civilians didn't die because of it, and the country wasn't about to go bankrupt because of it. Then all the congressmen got indignant about Clinton's fiasco - I never seen a bigger collection of hypocrites.
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