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Post by takilasunrise on Jul 3, 2007 9:51:21 GMT -5
I know there are different views/opinions regarding capital punishment, but this article would make any person that is pro capital punishment think twice....................even if a person totally deserves it (like a mass rapist/murderer as an example), can you imagine a mother witnessing their child getting executed, and then it's not working right? "The mother of a US man whose 2006 execution took 86 minutes and involved sticking needles into him 19 times has sued the prison team which oversaw the execution for civil rights violations. On Monday Irma Clark filed suit in the Cincinnati, Ohio, district court, alleging her son Joseph Clark was exposed to "excessive suffering" violating the US constitution when he was put to death on May 2, 2006, at a state prison in Lucasville, Ohio, according to court documents. The suit claims that two prison administrators and 12 members of the execution team ignored the fact that Clark, who had been sentenced to death for a 1984 murder, had long been an intravenous drug user making it difficult to carry out the execution by lethal injection. The filing said it took the execution team 25 minutes on their first attempt to place shunts in Clark's arms to inject the three drugs used in the execution, because of heavy scar tissue on his arms from drug use. "The first execution attempt failed, probably due to a collapsed vein," the complaint read. "The execution team discovered the problem when Mr Clark lifted his head from the gurney and repeatedly stated, 'It don't work.'" Clark also asked if there was some other way they could put him to death, according to the suit. In a second try, it took the team another half-hour to find a usable vein, and as they did, "witnesses could hear Mr Clark's groans from behind the curtain." After Clark was finally pronounced dead, 86 minutes after the process began, an autopsy showed 19 needle puncture wounds from the process. The suit alleges the team did not follow procedures and was negligent in handling the execution. "As a result of defendants' deliberate indifference to the substantial risk of a problematic execution, Mr Clark needlessly suffered humiliation, pain and suffering, and emotional stress," it said. The suit asks for 150,000 dollars in damages. Several US states have recently halted executions due to problems with the lethal injection method." news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070703/ts_alt_afp/usexecutionsuit |
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Post by Tweetiepy on Jul 3, 2007 10:39:27 GMT -5
Maybe I shouldn't say this but... didn't his victim(s) suffer?
It must be hard as hell for a parent to watch that, but was any mercy shown to their victims as they were killed/raped/tortured?
What goes around, comes around
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Post by hermatite on Jul 3, 2007 10:57:59 GMT -5
Gee...maybe Dubya could have commuted HIS sentence. (but I'm not bitter..well...not much)
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Post by takilasunrise on Jul 3, 2007 11:14:01 GMT -5
Well, I figure this...........I absolutely believe in what goes around comes around.......and I do believe he will have to answer to a bigger power and suffer consequences for what he did on this earth. And I definitely agree that his victim(s) more than likely suffered. But we, as a civilized society, should still be humane, even in death. We shouldn't lower ourselves to his level. He'll get his..............anyway, his mama is only suing for $150K..........so she's not being too greedy. Who's the money for? Him? I don't think he needs it now, but maybe she needs to pay for his attorney's fees, eh?
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Post by Cher on Jul 3, 2007 11:15:01 GMT -5
Good point Tweet, I agree. I do not understand though, why would a mother want to sit there and watch your child being put to death? I couldn't do that ...
This may sound cold but I don't have a lot of sympathy for murderers and rapists. The injections were no big deal since he should have been quite used to it from doing his drugs. They should have told him to stop whining and be the "man" he thought he was when he was killing his victim.
They are suing because "Mr Clark needlessly suffered humiliation, pain and suffering, and emotional stress". Yeah, I doubt he thought about that when he was committing murder. I have no sympathy for him at all but I suppose she'll win, lawsuit lawyers are good, especially when suing the government us (our tax dollars). On the other hand, even if she wins, it probably won't cost us as much as it would to keep him in jail the rest of his life while they tried to figure out a different way to carry out his sentence.
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Post by hermatite on Jul 3, 2007 11:56:47 GMT -5
I'm with takila on this one. We create the kind of society we want to live in. I sincerely hope that a society that approves of torture...even for the lowest of the low...is not in my future.
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Post by Lady B on Jul 3, 2007 12:00:08 GMT -5
I have been reading about this case--Florida has also had problems with capital punishment. The murderer's mother was not present at his execution. The wife of one of his murder victims and the sister of his other murdered victim did witness a part of the execution process. Once it became evident that the IV line with the lethal injection for this murderer was failing, possibly due to the collapsing of veins abused by the murderer's extensive drug use, the curtains were closed to the witness area.
The murderer's family is not asking for much money in the litigation. Their intent seems to be more focused on improving the techniques used to carry out the execution of murderers. Mr. Clark did apologize to the families of his victims just before the execution process was started.
I am copying here some information about the Clark family's litigation and about this murderer's victims:
_____________________________
""Clark's brother, Dennis, said yesterday that no one from his family was at the execution per his brother's requests. He added that he does not condone his brother's actions but that he is concerned about the state's method of execution.
"What my brother did was wrong. He committed a crime, he did the time, and ultimately he paid the price," Mr. Clark said.
"I just want to see it done right," he added. "If it's done right, we wouldn't be here."
Clark was executed at the Southern Ohio Correctional Facility in Lucasville, Ohio, for the 1984 slaying of David Manning, a 23-year-old husband and father who was shot at a gas station on Airport Highway in South Toledo.
He received a life sentence for killing another clerk, Donald Harris, 21, the night before at a store on Hill Avenue.
Clark was arrested after shooting a third man, Robert Roloff, during a holdup at a bank ATM in Toledo three days after Mr. Manning's death. Mr. Roloff survived.""
_____________________________
Hopefully, the State of Ohio, after this litigation is resolved, will find more humane ways to execute murderers found guilty and sentenced to death than by having to repeatedly stick a needle into the murderers' veins. Any one who has ever had blood drawn or an IV started knows just how painful it can be to have that needle stuck in a vein.
Lady B
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stefan
Cave Dweller 
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,113
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Post by stefan on Jul 3, 2007 13:40:44 GMT -5
well just because I'm feeling like an ass today- Sevres him right! IV drug user and murderer??? Since when do prisoners deserve rights?
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Post by Michael John on Jul 3, 2007 14:02:45 GMT -5
Hmmm ... a murdering junky got poked with a needle 19 times ... gee, that's just SO terrible! And Mom thinks she should get $150k for HIS "suffering" ... oh, yeah, definately give it to her, POOR woman. *NOT*
Judging by her lawsuit, no wonder her son became a murdering junky. She obviously doesn't have the brains that god gave a chicken. Her son was sticking needles in his arms for years (collapsed veins), and now she wants to quibble over a few more??? GIVE ME A BREAK.
They need to tie her down to a gurney and show her that it can be done right the first time!
Sorry, I have absolutely no sympathy for low-life scum.
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wm7734
spending too much on rocks
wheres my rockhammer ?
Member since January 2007
Posts: 252
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Post by wm7734 on Jul 3, 2007 15:09:03 GMT -5
im with you all,screw em
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desertdweller
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since August 2006
Posts: 1,803
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Post by desertdweller on Jul 3, 2007 17:39:07 GMT -5
Just curious, do you have children Michaeljohn?
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Post by cpdad on Jul 3, 2007 18:21:59 GMT -5
well im 1 of those that beleive if ya kill someone with a gun...you should be shot to death with the same gun if possible....kill someone with a bat....get killed with a bat.
would i feel differently if it was my son...who knows probably...but i would understand it.
michaeljohn....strapping mom down and giving her the needle doesnt make much sense...she probably got talked into this by some lawyer who got her to sign a paper while she wasnt even thinking...or maybe she was thinking we dont know.
i have a little brother thats trying to recover from crack addiction.....when he left home he was well raised by mom....had a good job and so on...he went astray later in life...so we cant always blame the parenting.
just meant as conversation....not a flame...kev.
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earthdog
Cave Dweller
Don't eat yellow snow
Member since June 2006
Posts: 2,731
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Post by earthdog on Jul 3, 2007 20:58:19 GMT -5
The scumbag got whats coming to him. They should have stuck his ass a few more times.
I'm with cpdad. Eye for an eye! If a man rapes, he gets it with a broom stick, you kill with a gun, you get it with a gun, and so on.
The mother can make her point in a news conf. or something, not sue for money that she'll probly go buy a new car with.
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Post by deb193 on Jul 3, 2007 20:59:29 GMT -5
well just because I'm feeling like an ass today- Serves him right! IV drug user and murderer??? Since when do prisoners deserve rights? Well, since we established a constitution that spells out those rights, and since many patriotic Americans died for that constitution. Execution is about protecting society - it is not and never was supposed to be about vengeance. MichaelJohn - everyone has some claim on their own opinion. Mine is that you are an ass. To threaten the life of a woman who is only trying to insure humane execution, to suggest that her regard for civil society "caused" her sons actions ... well I suspect the world would have been better off if you (and people who think like you) had been shot at that gas station. Oh, did I type that? Damm, those opinions can be nasty things. I guess folks should think more before they post shit on this board. |
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Post by cpdad on Jul 3, 2007 22:12:18 GMT -5
damn daniel....is getting older bothering you?....i thought pissing folks off was left up to me.....and probably earthdog ;D....sorry earthdog ;D....kev.
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Post by parfive on Jul 3, 2007 22:57:33 GMT -5
'bout time for the tulips, no?
Rich
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Pdwight
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2003
Posts: 619
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Post by Pdwight on Jul 4, 2007 0:16:45 GMT -5
Wouldn't a good Axe and a tree stump solve this problem. Im sorry but I know this sounds heartless...but you don't ride the needle unless there is a very clear cut (bad pun) case of murder. I just think an Axe and bolck of hardwood would stop the problems with colapsed veins.
Dwight
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Post by deb193 on Jul 4, 2007 10:19:52 GMT -5
I think the ax and stump is not a fool proof method. It is also not the humane method we strive for in order to separate state execution from the odious murders which resulted in such sentences. The goal is to quickly, efficiently, dispassionately, and humanely dispatch people who can no longer be allowed to live in our society. (I am not sure I agree with all the crimes that currently merit capital punishment, and I could think of a few white-collar crimes that I would add to the capital list, but that is another thread.)
A very strong oral sedative, and then a room full of nitrogen or helium or other inert gas would be almost painless and much less "dramatic" execution. With a little thought, we could manage to come up with whatever is necessary to insure efficient humane dispatch in capital punishment.
Kev, it is not getting older, rather it is getting sandbagged. I try to stay away form this section because I want the communion of rocks, and do not wish to have any profound differences rubbed in my face. But, I wanted to see if there was news of your brother, and I felt obliged to post in my b-day thread, so I popped in. I guess my mistake was clicking on tequila's thread.
I do feel that my earlier heated response was a personal lapse because I strive to meet idiocy with reason, and ignorance with knowledge, and above all, not to descend to the level of those whose nastiness offends me. In this case I walked right up to the line. I was so stunned that he could call for the execution of the mom, and even more stunned that nobody had called him on it. Despite these personal regrets, I won't delete anything.
While I would never advocate the shooting of anyone, or call for it, or wish for it (or at least strive not to wish for it), I stayed just a hair this side of my personal boundary line by saying that I might consider the world better off if the shooting victims had been ignorant hate mongers. Perhaps a subtle semantic difference, but important at least to me.
I try to stay out of this section, but sometimes 10 most recent posts reveals something, or in this case I went to thank b-day well-wishers. I almost washed my hands of RTH last night. I was sick to the depths of my soul.
I often do not join clubs or seek affiliation because I end up standing in solidarity with complete idiots. One minute you are working for humane society fund raising, and the next you are being associated with some idiot who has a "dairy is rape" bumper sticker. One minute you are working for civil rights, and the next minute you are associated with an anarchist who wants no state sanction of any action. In real life I choose my company very carefully.
Knowing that MichaelJohn has called for the murder of a woman (strapped down to a gurney and a lethal injection stuck into her arm) for simply exercising her rights within our legal system, a woman who was most likely asked to do this by some civil rights group, a woman whose suite's main goal was to promote more humane execution ... and knowing that nobody else here bothered to tell him that he was way over the line with shit-talk like that ... well I felt a deep pain. I was shocked into an intemperate response. It will be a while before I can post in any thread that he has tainted with his presence.
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Trouble
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since June 2007
Posts: 93
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Post by Trouble on Jul 4, 2007 13:49:16 GMT -5
(to the background music of "Jaws") "We're gonna need a bigger tulip field."  |
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Post by Michael John on Jul 4, 2007 17:00:40 GMT -5
deb193 - Daniel,
Please accept my sincere apology. In my shock and disgust of the situation, I went overboard. My reference to the mother and the gurney was not meant to be taken literally. I wouldn't think that anyone could take such an outrageous statement seriously, but apparently you did, and I am truly sorry for getting you upset. I, too, would be upset if someone actually made that statement and meant it.
Yes, I am a parent. My son was born with gastro-schesis. That means that the skin and muscles around his stomache did not fully develop, and much of his intestines were outside his body at birth. He had surgery to temporarily correct the problem immediately following the birth.
At a year old, he had to undergo another surgery, which was to permanently repair the birth defect. It was a very risky but necessary surgery. He had to remain in the hospital for several weeks following the surgery.
During that recovery period, he was poked and prodded like a little pincushion. His veins were in terrible shape, especially after about the first week of recovery. Many medical professionals had a very hard time when his shunt site needed to be relocated, which was many times. However, I never would have even considered sueing the hospital for those numerous failed attempts. His veins were in bad shape.
Well, this murdering junky had bad veins, caused by his OWN actions. He had a total of 19 needle sticks. We've all had shots, and most of us have probably had shunts. I have. Do they hurt? Sure, a little bit. Excruciating or unbearable pain? Definately not. Obviously, this guy did not consider needle sticks as a terrible thing either, or he wouldn't have been a junky! IN MY OPINION, some needle sticks cannot be considered inhumane or torturous, no matter how broadly you expand their definitions. The fact that the mother is trying to bilk The System of OUR TAX DOLLARS because her son received a few more needle sticks, after having stuck HIMSELF with needles for years, is just plain wrong. SHOULD SHE BE PUNISHED FOR IT, NO. But she SHOULD be ashamed of herself.
I hope this clarfies my thoughts on this particular situation. Again, I SINCERELY apologize for anyone that didn't recognise the fact that I was using a bit of sarcasm. I'm not a heartless beast.
On the broad issue of capital punishment, I don't understand how anyone can possibly believe that there is a "humane" way to carry-out an execution. ANY act which would be used to carry-out an execution would be inhumane, by it's very definition. If someone is condemned to death, then every second that ticks-by from the time of condemnation to the moment of death is inhumane.
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