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Post by cpdad on Nov 1, 2007 22:43:07 GMT -5
i wasnt going to post about this...it took a turn.....and no smileys this time....im not proud or smiling bout this....cp got in a fight at school....and maybe hurt someone badly....i know yaw get tired of hearing my problems.....but hey....i aint got nobody else to talk to.....this may be long.
cp....was in speech therapy....from the time he was 3 untill he was 10.....twice a week for 7 years...every damn week....he speaks as good as you and me now.....once a while he will screw up a word....and at the beginning of the school year....he screwed up a word in something he said....in class.
the other kids....starting making fun of him for that 1 screw up....colton held it in for about 2 months....then told us about it.....donna....went and talked to all his teachers.....and the principle.....and told them ....if yaw cant stop it.....colton was probably gonna snap at some point.....and hurt someone....its just his way.
the teachers or princible.....actually moved folks around....everyone loves colton to death at his school....he just sits and learns.....cause i taught him early on.....if ya dont wanna learn.....you will sit still....shut up....and not stop others from learning.
well it finally happened......this guy bumped colton.....1 of the ones talking shit.....colton ...bumped him back.....colton told him to go away...leave him alone......he bumped colton again....colton bumped back again....told him dont put your hands on me again.
well.... while entering the next class....the guy hit colton in the back....colton had enough at this point.....he figured getting hit from behind was a sucker punch.
AND HE FINALLY SNAPPED....colton started chasing this guy around the class....he was running from colton....colton was turning over desks to get to him.....for some reason the dude stopped....he was running.....when he stopped....colton got his hands on him.....i knew what was going to happen....we warned the teachers....and princible.....if they didnt deal with these sorry ass hoodlums.
colton...when he caught this guy....like to damn near killed him....while in a choke hold.....seems like punches were thrown....and this guys head has lacerations...and bruises....seems colton worked his way around to the back of this dude....and totaly locked him up in a defensive mode....and choked him till he couldnt breath anymore....and this seems to scare the teachers....the teacher could not get colton off of him....the students could not get colton off of him....all tried....but colton let go when he thought he needed....thank god.
now they want to know where he learned to do such things....i aint telling.....they just need to look to there own military....colton aint telling
...colton just turned 14....he is 5.11...and works out constantly....the old fashion way....sit ups...pull ups....stuff like that.
but....heres where it takes a turn.......got a call.....other kid is going to hospital.....probably gonna be sued.....guess what i dont care..........a man has to stand his ground......kev.
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Post by joe on Nov 1, 2007 23:22:32 GMT -5
That really sucks Kevin. I'm so sorry to hear that. I think you did all you could. I don't blame CP in any way shape or form. He is still an excellent young man. I don't understand people who think you can just "take" everything that comes your way and not react.
If he would have told you earlier and not had it build up for two months, I would like to believe that you could have intervened. I'd like to believe that but I don't. I don't think they would have listened to you any more back then. "Let's ignore the bullying and maybe it will go away". If not we'll blame the victim when he snaps.
I think CP's getting a rotten deal here. Hang in there Kev.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2007 0:46:09 GMT -5
Awww Kev, thats awful........especially for cp. A guy can only take so much.
My parents always told us kids not to get physical.......UNLESS someone else did first, then that rule no longer applied.
I hope it all works out for you.
Shannon
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stefan
Cave Dweller 
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,113
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Post by stefan on Nov 2, 2007 7:37:10 GMT -5
Well I applaude CP!!! I know I know- but sometimes a man has to stand up for himself- and make a point. As far as the lawsuit- well I guess you could counter sue for harassment (seems this guy started it) In all honesty it sounds like CP was just defending himself- I'm sure what ever punishment is dished out CP will accept it and take it like the man he is becoming- I do not believe in violence, fighting, bullying- but there are times when you just gotta lay down the law- I also think maybe CP needs to talk with the school consuler- He cannot keep things like that bottled up to the point that he explodes- Like Rockme said- that level of violence is gonna get him into serious trouble as an adult.
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Post by Condor on Nov 2, 2007 7:51:52 GMT -5
Do you have any documentation that he was being picked on, and teachers or administrators were sitting by doing nothing? Any witnesses to as to him being so meek as to let himself be picke on until all **LL broke loose. Had there been any prior interventions here? If not, then there will not be much you can do. As much as we love our kids, I know that they will not tell us the entire story. I find it hard to believe that he just stood there and took it, and took it a-la Kwai Chang Caine. How big was the "bully?" If he did hurt him as much as you say he did, then there are some serious anger issues that go beyond the picking. It's not something that just happens. I'm sure that twerp and others have it coming, but that's not the way life works. There are consequences for this kind of behavior, and with all the extreme violence in schools today, everyone has to be careful. Good thing he only beat him up instead of holding it in until he would have really exploded. It could have been worse.
Condor
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Post by Tonyterner on Nov 2, 2007 11:39:15 GMT -5
Kev, I don't know CP but given the situation you described it sounds like he way over reacted. Being teased and pushed in the back doesn't equal cuts, bruises and being choked to the point of not breathing. I am a firm believer in standing up for yourself and I can't abide bullies but a reaction should be equal to the action. I was picked on quite a bit as a kid, kinda geeky, but only ever got in one fight. It lasted 2 punches, his first then my retaliation. I got my glasses knocked off he got a broken nose. Now this way before we became a sue happy society. Both of us got called to the princples office. We both told the same truthfull story. Niether of us received punishment since it was an eye for an eye type altercation. This one the other hand does not fall into that category. I feel for ya but....
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Post by cpdad on Nov 2, 2007 11:49:06 GMT -5
there was a lot about the issue known to all....they had already broke up this group....seperated them to seperate classes....just talked to the princible again.....seems were kinda out of the woods this time....even the kids mom was aware of the problem..
seems cp was doing exactly as we told him to....he was letting the teachers know they were still doing it....and this guy had been in trouble for this kinda stuff before.....so everybody knew about it.....the principle said the kids mom siad he deserved what he got.
cp doesnt hold stuff in much.....he just doesnt like to talk in public...its in his head.....he still thinks he talks a little funny but he doesnt at all....except for the occasional slip up.
the big thing to cp was the kid hit him from behind....and he wasnt going to take that...from anybody.
it isnt quite as bad as i said before....the cuts wasnt caused by cp....or the bruises.......just the bruise on his neck...she didnt say where they came from....but the lady told me she was very concerned about the hard cp had him held....and why he didnt let go when told to....kev
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Post by krazydiamond on Nov 2, 2007 12:35:00 GMT -5
teachers and school officials have gone to extreme caution mode since some of the more recent events, starting with Columbine. hopefully, you and CP will get out of this if you keep you head down and CP keeps his temper in check. make sure CP continues to report to his guidance counsler, etc. if this type of behavior starts up again. this episode will either squash it or antagonize the situation and kids can be so very cruel to each other.
hang in there, guys!
KD
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stonesnbones
spending too much on rocks
Member since September 2007
Posts: 255
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Post by stonesnbones on Nov 2, 2007 15:31:14 GMT -5
I need to learn to keep my opinion to myself on public forums but I can not.First I must say,Kev given the information given good for cp!Bullies are rarely punished in alot school systems because the teachers are just as afraid of them.cp drew the line in the sand,you voiced your concerns to the authorities.Hopefully as word goes through the kids,everyone will now know not to mess with cp.
I am a retired educator and still teach part time.I would see the bullies do their game and take them to the Dean.At that point its out of my hands.Rarely was there an expulsion.One can talk to parents until one is blue in the face,generally the parents could have cared less or their "baby" wasn't a bully.The sad thing is the kids know that there is little in the way of discipline the schools can do to curb bad behavior.
Brad
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Post by deb193redux on Nov 2, 2007 15:54:41 GMT -5
Kev, glad to hear "out of woods". Much was done right here, from notifying school to talking with parents, to keeping school updated, and even early restraint.
My advice would be to underscore that even in justified retialiation for a behind the back attack, our society expects proportionality and self-control. Holds the look military style, or combatiants who do not seem to be in control or are unresponsive to many calls from on-sight authorities ... well that is scary for our society. In a boy a few years older, it could land cp in jail even if the outher guy had it comming. I would hate to see any "control issues" interfere with any of cp's goals for military service. I hope a lot of reflection and growth comes form this. I also hope any other bullies think twice and leave cp alone.
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Post by docone31 on Nov 2, 2007 17:35:03 GMT -5
Kev., it is survival. We have so politified schools, our children do not know how to do anything but watch TV, and call it recreation.
It is sad when kids beat the crap out of each other. I am sure, even though there are no gang related propaganda with this, it will get dragged on, and on, and on, and on, and on. At his age, talk does not really satisfy treatments dispensed by students. I was a victim of such behavior and still carry scars because the authourities got between the bullies and myself.
Somethings just need working out one on one. Back in my day, when the issues got out of hand, we would go see the coach and he would put gloves on us and leave the room. We worked out a lot of stupid emotions and had resolutions that lasted. Then they got civilized.
When my son was in a situation like this one, I stood down the system. I ultimately lost mucho dinero, but, my son makes his own choices today. Some stupid, some pretty intuitive.
Violence is indeed the weapon of the ignorant, but, sometimes words are not enough. It is sad.
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Post by cpdad on Nov 2, 2007 19:06:46 GMT -5
first i wanna say to ...rockme....i probably used the wrong words in my post....what cp did was to put the person in a position where they can no longer be aggressive....and end all chances of further aggression....he just probably went to far...this i agree.
tony theres a little more to this than it being kinda a.... hit me i hit you kinda thing...this has been going on for months....and during this time cp has done nothing but tell the teachers....then it got physical....and cp made his point...and made it maybe to strongly.
cp told me that he heard the others saying to let him go....he was turning red....and yes they were trying to get cps arms off the kid....but he wanted to make sure when he let go...that the kid couldnt turn around and punch him....cp was on his back with the other on top of him.....thats the way he took him down....but when someone said hes turning blue cp let him go....like doc said...it is kinda survival...if he was going to survive with his pride intact....he had to do something....after doing nothing for so long.
but anyway....he ended up with only a 1 day suspension....no detention at all....im still feeling odd about the situation with cp....he did everything correct during the altercation...except probably carrying it maybe to far....yes he could have broken the guys neck....or caused other things from lack of air...i just need to figure out answers to my own questions....before i say to much to him.
daniel....he actually brought up the rotc thing himself....and how this might affect him....hes going to talk to the Lieutenant Colonial when he gets a chance about it....kev.
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Post by Bikerrandy on Nov 2, 2007 19:44:32 GMT -5
A person can only be pushed so far. Yep, that guy probably won't be picking on him anytime soon. (not by himself anyhow)
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Sabre52 on Nov 2, 2007 20:40:21 GMT -5
Kev, I'm a bit of a stutterer ( plus being a science nerd) myself and went through the whole speech therapy/ school bullying thing myself. It still amazes me how in this day and age of political correctness, schools seem to make pretty pathetic attempts to stop bullying and it still runs rampant with dismaying results, even school shootings and such. Young guys have their hormones all afire and eventually, even the most meek will explode into violence if pushed far enough. It's really only the human fight response ingrained in us all. The big ones use their fists and the weaker usually turn to guns and the school always says " Oh we have a zero tolerance for bullying" but somehow always seem to be blind to the fact that it goes on all the time thereby creating intolerable situations for the folks being bullied.
That being said though, stronger individuals or those adept in unarmed combat ( boxing for myself, karate etc for most of todays youth) have to be equally responsible and be able to draw the line with respect with how much physical damage to inflict in "self defense". Like they say, with great strength comes great responsibility. Once you are no longer at risk personally, excess injuries inflicted upon a defeated foe merely becomes aggravated assault in the eyes of the law, even if you did not throw the first punch. I've been there and I feel for you and your boy. Hopefully the other boy's not hurt too badly, will admit he instigated the confrontation, and his parents are not litigation crazy. Were I the parent, soon as the other kids parents sued me, I'd sue the school district. They had prior knowledge of the situation and did nothing to diffuse it which in my book, is negligence......Mel
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Post by cpdad on Nov 2, 2007 21:46:06 GMT -5
randy.....you said what is bothering cp.....{at least not by himself anyhow}  ......all i could tell him was....keep an eye out...if ya see 2 trying to be sneaky...run like hell.....1 guy you can take....2 can hurt ya ;D mel ya did me a service by posting......that post was exactly what i was looking for.....and i didnt know how to word what cp was using during the altercation....unarmed combat.....thats exactly it. and ....that is still 1 of the questions i have......he knows these unarmed combat moves......i can only talk to him....only he can make decisions how far to carry them.....hopefully they are not needed again......kev. |
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Post by docone31 on Nov 2, 2007 22:03:33 GMT -5
We have forgotten the concept of pasificion through violence.
A strong person can walk away from most violent incidents. It sounds like CP is on his way to being strong. He took the steps from seeking outside help, to finally defending himself when he had been pushed too far.
I lived in fear untill I learned Martial Arts, and practiced in Kumite. Once I learned Hollywood was not a representative of what can happen, I slowly attained an healthy respect for dangerous situations. Since, I have had people try, but, I have not used my fists for over 3 decades. I have blocked, but never ran.
Being a parent is a tough walk. A tough walk indeed.
I wish all of you well. I get the feeling, CP had had enough. He had to be suspended, for 1 day. Violence does not belong in school. Even though he defended himself when authourity dropped the ball. He can handle 1 day. The military is not going to care about him defending himself. Too much, that is a different story.
Lets hope this is the last time CP has to act in anger.
Yeah, Mel really summed it all up.
School, though, is no place for violence. I wonder if the others know that.
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Rockygibraltar
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2006
Posts: 1,404
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Post by Rockygibraltar on Nov 2, 2007 23:01:18 GMT -5
It sounds like all the right people in the school had the knowledge and opportunity to cut this off a long time ago. I don't believe this will cause big trouble for CP. I'm going to stick my neck out a little and say that given the social dynamics of this age group CP's reaction was correct and predictable. It went too far but he had to do something. With this situation and your guidance he will learn to measure his reactions. He's a good person in a bad situation.
For now stand by his side and let him know how much you love him and let him exercise all he wants. It's healthy and burns off a lot of frustration and anger. I get the impression that he has found this on his own. His is at a tough age, I remember it well. I take pills now so I can forget it. HaHa
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Post by rockyraccoon on Nov 3, 2007 10:43:38 GMT -5
kids are mean. mean kids turn into mean adults. then they turn into mean and crochety old farts. and no you cannot say mean kids come from bad homes because i've seen mean kids come from really good homes. will cp choking this kid down make him see the light and change his wicked ways? no. he may not mess with cp anymore but he will bully someone. probably later he'll bully his wife and children, co-workers...
unfortunately, showing you are tough only makes the guys want to take you on. we have a guy around here who has done those toughman contests and now he can't go anywhere that somebody wants to try their luck and see if they can take him. he knocked some guys eyeball smooth out of his head and still they keep coming.
a guy i know who is an excellent martial arts person has friends who hide behind doors and such to surprise him and try to take him. so i guess my biggest worry would be that now that he has made his tough man debut that others will want to try him too.
i think you really need to discuss this with him and have him think it through ahead of time how he will handle it if this occurs.
kim
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earthdog
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Member since June 2006
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Post by earthdog on Nov 3, 2007 11:43:03 GMT -5
Good for Colton! I don't think anyone will be bothering him anytime soon.
Sorry to hear you might get sued.
If you and colton can prove the other kid started it, maybe you'll be alright.
Colton should have done a few Tito Ortiz moves on his ass.
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181lizard
Cave Dweller
Still lurking :)
Member since December 2005
Posts: 2,171
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Post by 181lizard on Nov 3, 2007 12:23:58 GMT -5
How does Colton feel about the way this whole thing played out?
The good and the bad. Might be an eye opening experience for all if you can get him to talk about the real stuff.
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......all i could tell him was....keep an eye out...if ya see 2 trying to be sneaky...run like hell.....1 guy you can take....2 can hurt ya ;D
