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Post by cpdad on Nov 8, 2007 19:21:05 GMT -5
i know junk about this stuff....cp brought me a list with the innards he wants in his new computer...if yaw....or know anyone that can take a look at this...and give opinions...it would be appreciated....i have no reason to doubt him at all....would just like other opinions if possible.
im trying to decipher his notes.....so if it dont make sense....dont blame me ;D
nvidia geforce 8800 ultra 768 mb
intell core 2 quad processor q6600{4 x 2.4 ghz/8 mb L2 cache} 600 watt power supply sLi ready
extreme performance intel cpu cooling fan system kit
asus p5n32-e sLi nforce 680 i sLi chipset w/7.1 sound 4096 mb{1024 mb x 4} ddr2-800 pc 6400 memory module
320 gb hard drive
on board lan network
18 x dual format/double layer dvdr/rw + cd-r/ rw drive
windows xp home....can upgrade later when bugs are worked out of vista.
thoughts....kev.
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earthdog
Cave Dweller
Don't eat yellow snow
Member since June 2006
Posts: 2,731
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Post by earthdog on Nov 8, 2007 22:10:02 GMT -5
Most of us here are dumber than a BOX of ROCKS, when it comes to that stuff and you want us to decipher this for you? I understand a 320 gb hard drive... thats twice the size I have. Good luck buddy...
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Post by docone31 on Nov 8, 2007 22:35:17 GMT -5
Be aware of Vista, you will never be the administrator. XP is good enough for me. It still runs old programs. GemCad is an example.
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Post by cpdad on Nov 8, 2007 22:52:27 GMT -5
thats what im talking bout earth.....im dumb as a box of rocks as far as this stuff goes......i have no doubt ;D ....cp knows what the deal is.....but....hell thats a lot of money.....2 thousand bucks....for a dumb computer?...kev.
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earthdog
Cave Dweller
Don't eat yellow snow
Member since June 2006
Posts: 2,731
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Post by earthdog on Nov 8, 2007 22:55:04 GMT -5
2K? that is alot of geech. I thought you were in hard times?
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Post by cpdad on Nov 8, 2007 22:58:21 GMT -5
hell i cant afford to look out the door ;D....but grandpa is on his last leg....and wants to hook him up ;D...kev.
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Post by BAZ on Nov 8, 2007 23:03:00 GMT -5
Yeah, that is a lot of GB for a hard drive, sure should be enough for gaming. (mine is only 80 which I used to think was a lot) And the vid card, the Ge Force sounds good too.
7.1 sound? Man I am lacking. Never heard of it, I have 5.1. CP should have at least 2 GB of RAM too. (cheap stuff, but can make a little difference for games)
I'm still using XP without any complaints, but Vista is being touted as a "more gaming oriented" operating system.
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oriongal
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since May 2007
Posts: 96
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Post by oriongal on Nov 8, 2007 23:29:21 GMT -5
Holy cow - that is definitely a nice gamer setup. And parts of it aren't going to come cheap... The video card (Geforce 8800 ultra) alone is going to be almost as much as an entire no-frills computer would be - around $700-$800 just for that one card. Fortunately that would be the most expensive component, with the next most expensive likely being the processor (around $350-$400). I'm probably not the best person to advise you - not because I don't know enough, but because I'm just as susceptible to the 'drool factor' as any other techie. To put it in rock terms, I guess it's like trying to advise someone on the difference between diamond and silicon carbide - yes, you can get the job done perfectly well with SC, but diamond is ever so much faster! So with that in mind, could you get by with less and still have a solid gaming machine, the answer is yes, you could. It all depends how much tradeoff you're willing to make between performance and cost. I'll give you a bit of a breakdown on what the components he's asking for do, and how they relate to what he wants, maybe that will help you decide: A machine whose primary function is going to be games, especially video-intensive ones, does need a good video card. The video card takes care of all the graphics rendering (showing the moving images), and it has both its own processor (brain) and its own memory (storage). Both memory and processor lighten the load on the main computer's processor and memory, and make for smoother and sharper images. There's no particular advantage to having more video processing than you need, but having less than you need results in jerky image movement as the processor struggles to keep up. Most games don't require 768MB of video RAM, nor will most make use of that much. A lot depends on the games he actually plays or intends to play as to whether he'll really see a return from a card like the one requested versus one that only has 512MB of video RAM. Unless he's already got a very good flat-panel monitor and is playing extremely graphic-intensive games (look on the game boxes to see how much video RAM is recommended - with the understanding that it's the bare minimum that will be on the box, not the optimal amount), it's unlikely that he'd be able to tell a difference. It's very much like having a car - if you know you're going to be going 200MPH at the track, you need a car that will do that. If the most you're ever going to go is 100MPH, then having a car that'll do 200MPH is sort of a waste. It's good for bragging rights (and computers are every bit as subject to that among gamers as cars are among gearheads), but otherwise you aren't going to actually see any benefit from having that extra horsepower, because you'll never be making use of it. The processor he's looking at (the 2 quad) is also higher-end than is probably needed, but at the same time is a little better investment. For anyone who's just websurfing and using Office-type programs, a killer processor isn't going to make much difference. But for a gamer, it does - and even if most games now won't make use of that much power, the ones in the future will. The CPU (processor) is the heart of the machine, it's worth spending a little extra on if you're going to be doing things that will really put demands on it. 4GB of RAM is probably worth the money - this is one of the best thing to maximize for any machine, not just a gaming machine. It's where you tend to get the most bang for your buck (RAM is the computer's memory - not to be confused with hard drive space. You can think of RAM as being like short-term memory in humans...like being given a phone number to remember when you don't have a pen and paper handy to write it down. While the number is still in your head, that's short-term storage (RAM). When you write it down in your address book (hard drive), that's long-term storage. A common misconception is that a bigger hard drive will improve a computer's performance, but it doesn't. A 350GB hard drive doesn't 'perform' any better than a 100GB one, it just means you can store more stuff long-term (address book has more pages in it). Having more RAM means the computer can juggle more things at once, and it will almost always improve performance. Sometimes more so than any other component in the computer can). A good CPU cooling system is a good idea. CPU's can run really hot, and just like running a car engine hot, it can cause them to fail. Don't need to go ultra-expensive here, but better not to go bargain-basement either. Same with the power supply, 600W for a gaming machine sounds perfectly reasonable. Hope that helps just a little bit! (and hope it didn't confuse you more!)
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erbojones
has rocks in the head
Member since October 2006
Posts: 659
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Post by erbojones on Nov 9, 2007 4:09:46 GMT -5
The memory, hard disk and DVD-RW drive can all be gotten realtively cheaply.
The costly bits are going to be the processor (intel core duo bit), the video card (nvidia) and the asus sound bit.
I notice he's asked for 7.1 sound - has he got the 7 speakers and the amplifier bit for that already? If not, he's going to need that to get the best out of it.
For what it is worth I've just had to buy a laptop and that is running Vista - I'm not hugely impressed with it ... it is a bulky and at times clunky, memory hungry operating system. XP is much better (at the moment at least).
If you are going to buy the innards separately check the internet for good deals you'll be surprised how much cheaper they can be.
It isn't the cheapest looking setup I've seen but he's tried to futureproof it as much as possible whilst giving himself a good gaming machine.
Good luck!!
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oriongal
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since May 2007
Posts: 96
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Post by oriongal on Nov 9, 2007 7:58:08 GMT -5
I notice he's asked for 7.1 sound - has he got the 7 speakers and the amplifier bit for that already? If not, he's going to need that to get the best out of it.
That was my first thought as well, but when I looked again at what he'd asked for, it made more sense. The Asus bit is the motherboard itself, and the 7.1 sound is a chip integrated into it (rather than being a separate sound card). If there isn't much difference between a motherboard with 5.1 sound integrated and one with 7.1 integrated, might as well go for the 7.1. I haven't priced 7.1 boards, but I recently got one with integrated 5.1 and it wasn't terribly expensive - around $150. The memory actually ran me more than the motherboard did.
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Post by akansan on Nov 9, 2007 8:15:28 GMT -5
A couple thoughts:
XP can't support 4GB of RAM. You can put it in there, but it won't really do you any good. The most XP can support is 2GB. You'll also want to make sure whatever memory you purchase is compatible with the board itself. The higher end the board, the more picky the board as to what memory goes in.
As for the processor, a dual core instead of a quad core would be completely suffiecient. (E6600 instead of Q6600). Again, XP is limited in how many processors it can really bring online.
My only other comment is on the board. Asus was having some quality control issues for a while. You'll want to read the reviews on the board itself before committing to that one. For a while every 2 out of 10 boards were having to be returned. I don't really care for that ratio!
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chassroc
Cave Dweller
Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
Posts: 3,586
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Post by chassroc on Nov 9, 2007 9:14:38 GMT -5
Just a quick thought...After buying the loss leader, cheapest or last years computer models from CompUSA or a discount house, My last three computers (For me and my two sons, two desktops and one laptop ) have been purchased from DELL and I like them. You can get cheaper but they give you pretty good value for top of the line PC's. On their website, they will walk you through the purchase. I'm sure you can get most of the features you mention from them and you might call a talk to a human being about those things not included.
If CP is computer savvy, you might consider exploring whether he is interested in building his own, This should only be an option if he is really into electronics and prefers to build than buy.
You probably have local computer geeks that custom build boxes and you might consider letting them price out your specs or having them recommend a configuration.
csroc
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Post by akansan on Nov 9, 2007 10:54:13 GMT -5
You'll not want Vista right now anyway, not for a gaming machine. Unless you want HALO 3...then you'd need Vista as that's the only OS it'll run on. If you wanted to upgrade the OS, XP Pro would be my recommendation at this moment. I also agree with Oriongal about the cooling. You'll want to keep that video card as cool as possible so the graphics render properly and you won't experience hesitating video. Hesitating video is never a good thing when gaming.
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Post by ladyt on Nov 9, 2007 14:47:31 GMT -5
I bought a new computer, HP from Best buy, 8 months ago. It came with Vista. At first it was difficult to operate, it seemed very bulky until I got used to the format. Now it's great, I do games and videos and what ever. Haven't had a problem. JM2C
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Post by LCARS on Nov 9, 2007 19:24:04 GMT -5
I'm going to have to agree with Oriongal on basically her whole post. IMPO, a lot of that stuff is overpowered for what most gamers are going to need for "optimal" performance on most games out there now. The performance benefits of the highest end hardware vs their slightly lower performance but significantly cheaper counterparts can be too small to be worth the extra money or even too small to notice. Most good intensive type games will analyse the hardware footprint when they install in order to "optimize" game play for your set-up anyway, so you don't really notice a difference unless you knew what to look for. Honestly, I think CP has a slight case of wishful thinking with that list but I am also pretty sure that you can satisfy the requirements for a higher-end gaming oriented machine without going overboard or disappointing him. There really is no point in buying hardware that is better than you really need because it's essentially obsolete within five years of manufacture anyways and there will be something twice as fast for half of what you paid for yours by then, that's just the way it goes. ;D If it's too expensive then say it's too expensive and work on cutting costs out with more reasonable components. You may want to start the negotiation process now to establish reasonable levels of stock price/performance ratio with a system that is more reasonably priced but can also support the upgrades he wants. IF he decides in the end that saving up some money to get the upgrades is going to be worth it then all of a sudden things will start to come into proper perspective for him, trust me. One thing I don't think anyone mentioned yet is about the hard drive. Excuse the innuendo here but it's not just the size but the speed that really matters. I would rather have a 120GB drive that accesses data very quickly than a slower 300GB drive because I'll just be waiting longer for everything to load with the larger slower drive and have worse performance for more cost in the end. It also doesn't make any sense to have components that outperform the motherboard they're on so it's always a good idea to run your planned system by a "real" computer tech and get their advice before buying anything. There could be some really good deals on some things that may not be exactly what CP wants but if it afforded more to spend in another area it may be worth doing some more homework. Well i'm sure that's enough to have to think about already, you don't need me babbling on to confuse you any further.
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Post by cpdad on Nov 9, 2007 21:47:14 GMT -5
i have learned a lot from this thread....not much i understand ;D...but im learning ;D.....it is very interesting ;D
i throwed some questions at him just a few minutes ago...i said to him.
maybe xp home ..wont run more than 2 gig of ram...you need to check that....do you really need 4?....check it...maybe xp pro is more suitable.
do you really need a quad ..cpu....maybe a dual will do?
and yes he has a high end monitor....he actually runs 2 monitors...1 is a 21 inch...or 19 cant remember...top of the line...the flat kind....and a regular 17 inch monitor....he uses both at the same time sometimes.
im trying to type over him talking to me.....he said something about clocking thru bioz.....he will fix it....i have to go drink beer now ;D...this is just to much ;D...kev.
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oriongal
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since May 2007
Posts: 96
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Post by oriongal on Nov 9, 2007 22:01:57 GMT -5
Actually, there's an even better way to get a good deal from Dell - take a look at their refurbished machines. They'll be under a link called Dell Outlet, under Home and Home Office machines. Their refurbs are same quality as new, and sold with the same warranty available (as is offered on new machines) as well. You can't customise them, but you can customise your search to get exactly what you want in a machine. Only downside is that you've got to be ready to buy it the moment you see it - if you hesitate, it'll be gone (often as soon as you refresh the screen), especially if it is a good deal. Even once you put one in your shopping cart, you've only got 15 minutes to actually buy it or it goes back into the inventory. I've gotten some amazing deals that way, some for half or even slightly less than half of what the same machine would be if purchased 'new' (in quotes because all the machines I've gotten were actually new - many of the ones they sell as refurbs were never used by anyone, they were returned mis-orders or over-orders that weren't ever taken out of the box by the original customer. But once returned they can't be sold as new again, even if the box was never opened). I bought one machine new from Dell six years ago, and it is still going. The rest that I've gotten from Dell (2 desktops, 2 laptops, and a couple flat-panel monitors) I bought via the refurb outlet, and they're all still running too [don't still have all of them myself, gave them away to friends for their kids when I upgraded]. Also got my parents their desktops that way, and got a co-worker a laptop that way - and all those machines are still running along fine as well. I used to recommend Dell without any reservation, but unfortunately I do have a few reservations now - one is that they've done as so many other companies have and outsourced their customer support to India. It might not be so bad if you're a guy, but as a woman, I've had some of the males be incredibly condescending to me on the phone if I had any disagreement about what they were telling me. Just a difference in culture I expect, but when I've got someone who is reading from a troubleshooting matrix and telling me to do something that I know isn't going to help (I'm a programmer/database admin btw), I do tend to get a little frustrated. The other is that I don't feel the overall quality of the most recent machine I got (an XPS 600) was as good as the previous ones (Dimension 8200 & 8400). I'm not unhappy with it overall, just that it had a few issues that needed ironing out right out of the box, where the other machines I've had from them were trouble-free from day one. But, to be fair, some of the problems with this one were just poor choices on the original customer's part in the configuration. For example - they ordered a machine with a CD-RW as the main optical drive, and a DVD-RW as the secondary. That's a bad choice for several reasons - one is that I've never seen a DVD-RW that won't also burn CD's, so having a CD writer on top of the DVD writer is redundant. The other is that the operating system disc is on DVD - and you can't boot from the DVD-RW drive in the configuration it is currently in. So on this machine, as originally configured, if the OS ever dies you're hosed unless you know how to reconfigure it to make the DVD-RW drive the primary. Not a problem for me, but likely would be for the average user. I'm just surprised that Dell went ahead and built the machine that way in the first place, rather than contacting the customer and talking them into a DVD-ROM as the primary optical instead of a CD-RW that they didn't need. Several years ago, they would have done that. If you want to go the component route from the bottom up though, probably the best place to find everything in one location is TigerDirect ( tigerdirect.com). Putting a computer together from scratch isn't nearly as difficult as it used to be, it's mostly all plug and play these days and there isn't any soldering required. As long as CP makes sure all the components you're buying will in fact work together, knows where everything is supposed to go inside the case, and is careful when installing the processor, he should be able to assemble one without too much trouble.
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Post by cpdad on Nov 9, 2007 23:38:00 GMT -5
jim ya about to get your ass in a mess ;D....better be careful with these gals around here ;D....they can be brutal ;D...kev.
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Post by xenaswolf on Nov 10, 2007 2:51:03 GMT -5
Dang is he playing video games or running NASA? I'd kill to have HALF that computer he wants LOL
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oriongal
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since May 2007
Posts: 96
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Post by oriongal on Nov 10, 2007 10:16:13 GMT -5
<grins> Heh, no trouble from me - I got an especially good laugh out of that because I'm really not much of a cook. I can follow a recipe, but to just get in the kitchen and whip something up from scratch...I'm hopeless (and envious of those who can as well). I can explain in detail how a four-stroke internal combustion engine works, but ask me what herbs/spices go best with what meats and you'll probably get a deer-in-the-headlights look in return.
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