Un-Enchanted Staff Of Healing

Very inventive and a great use of stones. Love the natural knotting and curling. Jo

Beautiful creation! I find natural creations showing such fine symmetry very appealing. Kind of a symbiosis of the organic and the inorganic....Mel

I have to agree with rockitman. Your bases are NOT covered, so much as you have been lucky.

I never knew about this and I was surprised. I could easily have violated this law.

I suspect the law is selectively enforced, and this is why you had no trouble - not the "channels" you mention. It seems logical that the law is so strict so as to prosecute poachers and to deny them the defense that they found the bird dead. Likewise, it seems plausible that various "officials" might not know of the law's exact provisions, nor would they care if they did unles they suspected poaching.

Still a ranger or game warden having a bad day could make your day bad very fast. The reasoning you offer, and the lines of authority/permission you trace, are more fantasy than legal protection. This might even ruin the director's day or cost her job if the ranger deemed her to be trafficing because she gave you permission.

Asking for permission from a director is not an exception granted by law. Nor is being friendly with a nature center or local officials. Seems you are just faling into the "selectively enforced" area - not really a direct result of your actions, though courtesy always helps.

I am not one to trust selective enforcement when it comes to my own freedom. I wonder if there is not some way to rewrite this law. Mel- do you have an opinion on rewriting?

I am ninded of a story in the AMFS newsletter, reprinted in teh NWFMS newsletter, abot rock collecting in state forests.
(www.amfed.org/nfms/nwnews/nw0709.pdf)

Editors Note: The following article is from the AFMS Newsletter, dated
June/July 2009. Although the incident below occurred in Georgia, is a
similar incident possible in the Northwest? In the next issue I will
publish an article closer to home.

Words of Caution

by John Wright, RPG, Conservation & Legislation Chair

If you plan on visiting the National Forest, be aware that you cannot trust the
information on their “web sites” or in their brochures as Forest Service law
enforcement officers use a different set of rules, regulations, and interpretations than
the ones published. These inconsistencies are probably the result of poor coordination
within the departments of the National Forest, and if you have ever attended any of
the public forums they conduct, you know just how poorly organized they are.
Unfortunately, Forest Service officials and Federal Judges invariably side with the
law enforcement officers no matter how inconsistent or corrupt the circumstances
may be.
Dick Pankey, President of ALAA , informed me of a pending case which is
very typical of what can happen that occurred in the Chattahoochee-Oconee
National Forests located in northern Georgia. The victims in this case are Dr.
Madden, MD, and his fianceé, who were rock-hounding in compliance with the
Forest Service directives, but criminally charged any way. I believe this is an
important enough example that all of our members should be made aware of the
problems they could encounter when visiting in “our” National Forests. Permission
was granted by the victim, Dr. Madden, to use his very well written account of the
circumstances, which unfortunately is very typical of a number of other similar
cases being adjudicated in the South Eastern Federal Mineralogical Society
(SFMS) area at the present time.

E-Mail received from Dick Pankey:

A couple of weeks ago I received the article below, THIS CAN HAPPEN
TO YOU. It was written by a rockhound from Georgia. He first contacted me in
early February. We have exchanged e-mails, had telephone conversations and he has
provided me with other information regarding collecting in Georgia National Forests
and the charges against him and his fianceé. I have begun collecting rockhounding
regulations and information from BLM and FS offices around the country. So far
much of the information is sketchy and vague. Written regulation and pamphlets
most often don’t exist. What I have found out is that although the laws allow for
collecting on BLM and FS land, each district can establish their own management
plan based on their interpretation of the law and the ranger/enforcement officer
enforces the management plan based upon their interpretation. And these vary
widely!
So, we have undocumented, inconsistent regulations, enforced by people
based upon their ideas and agendas.

THIS CAN HAPPEN TO YOU

On November 1, 2008, my fianceé, Dori, and I were criminally charged
with collecting Staurolites on U.S. Forest Service land. Local collectors have been
going to this location to collect Staurolites for over 30 years. Our friends, Tonya
and Barry, informed us of the location in Blue Ridge. We visited this area four (4)
times in the summer and fall of 2008. The Staurolites we found on the surface
were mostly poor quality. However, just a few inches under the surface using a
scraper we found much better quality ones. We used hand tools including a scraper
and a small pick. I feel we were very careful not to damage the site. We did not
dig more than 6 or 7 inches and completely filled in our holes and raked the dirt to
ensure the site looked undisturbed.
On November 1, 2008, Officer Mike Tipton of the USFS approached us.
We did not attempt to hide ourselves because we had no idea we were doing
anything wrong. He stated he had set up a video camera at the site and had been
watching us. This was very alarming to us. I assured him if he had approached us
that first time and explained that the Forest Service did not wish us to collect here,
we would have politely left and never returned. He will attest to the fact that we
were cooperative. He even complimented us stating we were “not like most of the
individuals he deals with.”
Officer Tipton approached us and asked us what we were looking for. We
told him we were looking for Staurolites. He did not know what Staurolites were,
but informed us we needed a mining permit to dig for any type of mineral. He told
us any Staurolites we find are government property. Next, he confiscated our
scraping tools, knap sack and bucket. He separated us and read me my Miranda
rights. At this point he asked me if I would allow federal agents to search my home
in Rome for any other federal property. When I said “no”, my interview was over.
Evidently he tried to obtain a search warrant, but was unsuccessful. Officer Tipton
repeatedly inquired as to whether we sold rocks. I told him I have never sold
minerals and Staurolites have only intrinsic value. In the past there have been
locations in Blue Ridge (Hackney Farm) that have allowed individuals to collect a
bucket of them for $5.00.
On January 11, 2009, Officer Tipton gave us a courtesy call. He stated we
are being charged criminally with 261.9(a) destroying a natural feature or property
of the United States ($250.00 fine) and 261.9(b) removing a natural feature or
property of the United States ($250.00 fine). These are criminal misdemeanor
offenses and can result in a criminal record. I strongly feel the section we are being
charged under is both vague and does not address the important point that we were
collecting minerals. Mineral collecting is generally allowed on most U.S. Forest
Service lands including public domain lands and acquired lands. Unfortunately,
each individual Forest Service can now make the rules (on acquired lands) dictating
the rules for rock hounding, and Georgia has one of the most restrictive policies.
Under this charge it appears we are vandals or even worse thieves. I told Officer
Tipton I was considering going to court. Five days later when I received my ticket
it had doubled to $400.00 for each offense for a total of $2000.00.
In conclusion, I feel strongly we took the utmost care to treat this land with
care. We spent at least 15-20 minutes each time to leave the ground looking
undisturbed. I feel the US Forest Service in Georgia is treating mineral collectors
like criminals. Mineral collecting has in the past been considered a wholesome and
educational activity. In other states, the US Forest Service has been much more
responsive to working with mineral collectors and even encourages collecting. I
am saddened that in Georgia the US Forest Service is now considering it a
criminal offense. Thank you for the time you spend considering this matter.
(Signed) Robert Madden, M.D.

Such a call would be a nice thing to do. It really could cost her her job if someone wanted to be nasty.

I think the point is that while they may be at fault for assisting/abeting you, the law states that your very possession is illegial, and nothing you mention is a defense.

How do we feel about laws this strict? Are they needed? I am no friend of poachers, but I don't want to make it easy for power tripping rangers to abuse authority and selectively prosecute anyone they do not like the looks of.

I wonder if exceptions for native Americans are ethnic or religious. I can't convert my ethnicity, but I could convert to a particular spiritual belief if it meant I could collect feathers and rocks or arrowheads ... etc, without harassment.

Say, doesn't this apply to some hallucinogens as well.

It is nice to learn of the laws from friends so we don't get into trouble.
I also enjoy learning from others with greater knowledge when given in a soft tone as not to insult me, but to share their knowlege, in a way, that I can appreciate it.
The HALF BREED

This turned out to be a really informative thread. I knew only of Eagle feathers being illegal to possess. Actually it is a good thing I read this because I have a hawk that visits the yard from time to time and I had been searching the area every so often in hopes of finding a feather on the ground that I could use in a design.

So, I'm really serious saying thanks for posting.

Interesting too that the owl in native American folklore was kind of bad ju ju, a harbinger of death and illness. The feathers however, are often used in healing ceremonies so are appropriate for a healing stick when wielded by a shaman. The feathers are supposed to form a connection to help carry messages to the creator and are therefore sacred as was the bird itself which the Amerinds even, were usually prohibited from killing. I always find it interesting just how connected to nature the Native Americans were, in every facet of their lives. Very cool!......Mel

This is all fascinating! I'm only sorry that I did not see it before the pictures were deleted!

kj