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Post by johnjsgems on Oct 12, 2010 10:44:16 GMT -5
The only trim saw I use now is a 4" tile saw with a 4" 303C lapidary blade (MK145). Pretty much any 4" tile saw with 5/8" arbor would be good for trimming slabs. Problem with a 4" saw is you can't cut anything taller than about 3/4". 7" tile saws generally will cut 2" or more by rolling the rock. Finding a 7" blade that will cut hard rocks well can be a challenge and all will be thick blades as it is strictly a tile size. And yes, I meant to say 10 8" to every 6" unit. In my opinion, the most versatile only saw would be a 10" slab and trim with a power feed. You can both slab rocks to about 3.5" and use as a trim saw. New 10" saws would blow your whole budget though.
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bgast1
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Post by bgast1 on Oct 12, 2010 11:11:53 GMT -5
I had something thrown at me last night, and I think that I will need the cabmate with the saw and rather than have to have 2 pieces of equipment at the moment.
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Post by jakesrocks on Oct 12, 2010 11:24:32 GMT -5
Ken mentioned something to the effect that the CabMate would be messy to use indoors. While this may be true, ( I've never used one ), it shouldn't be much of a trick to attach strips of rubber or soft plastic to the outside edges of the machine, to help contain the spray off the edges of the disks. The whole works could be set uo in a shallow tray to contain any water that escapes. I use those robber boot trays under some of my machines. They're cheap, and work great. I'm not sure what the arbor size is on the CabMate, but if it's 1/2", there are all sorts of wheels that could be added as finances permit.
Don
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bgast1
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Post by bgast1 on Oct 12, 2010 16:28:04 GMT -5
I went with the Cab Mate. The deciding factor was the saw. Is there anything else that I need to get right away or is that it?
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Post by jakesrocks on Oct 12, 2010 17:09:09 GMT -5
What comes with the unit should be a good start. Later you may want to get an 80 grit grinding wheel. Did you get the vice for the saw ? It will make cutting slabs a lot easier. You'll also need a dop pot and dop wax. Don't know what sort of water supply that machine takes. You may need one of those water spitters to fit under the wheel. Later, after you get a little experience cutting cabs, you may want to add a couple more wheels to your collection.
Don
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bgast1
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Post by bgast1 on Oct 12, 2010 17:23:23 GMT -5
Where do I get the dop pot and wax? I'll do an internet search. Actually, I would just as soon get what I need right now because I may not be able to later on. I noticed something on the Graves website about water splitters? If necessary I will place another order tomorrow. I think I saw a plastic bottle above the machine in the picture. If I need the 80 grit grinding wheel I'll get that too. Can you just grind rough rocks smooth and polish them or would that wear out the wheel too fast? Also, templates do you think that I can get those at Hobby Lobby?
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Post by jakesrocks on Oct 12, 2010 17:37:11 GMT -5
I just went back and checked the Graves website. The machine comes with the water supply, dop sticks and dop wax. You'll still need the dop pot, and the 80 grit wheel may not be a bad idea. Most of your rough grinding will be done on that wheel. Did you get the diamond or silicon carbide machine ? If you got the silicon carbide set up, it comes with a 100 grit wheel for course grinding. Get the 220 grit wheel.
Don
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bgast1
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Post by bgast1 on Oct 12, 2010 19:00:00 GMT -5
I bought the diamond machine. I think Inland makes a dop pot. Would Rio Grande be a good place to go for templates? I guess I should place another order tomorrow, but still unsure what to get.
This is what comes with the machine:
ALL DIAMOND - OUR BEST PACKAGE - The assembled unit (Item No. 13-008) with a package of diamond accessories which includes a 6 x .012 Diamond blade, 180 Grit diamond wheel (6 x 1 1/2), 600 Grit Thin Disc (6 inch), a set of three pads, Diamond Compounds 325, 1200 and 50,000 Grit as well as dop sticks and dop wax. (41 lbs.)
I also considered the star cup:
STAR CUP. Make Beads or Star Sapphires. This star cup is used to grind, sand and polish star gems, beads, cabochons and small spheres. The cup fits on the Cab-Mate, Faceting machine or any 1/2" - 20 right hand, threaded spindle. The unit is supplied with the cup holder and three copper cups which can be charged with 325, 1,200 and 50,000 grit diamond compound (sold separately). The holder separates easily by hand to facilitate changing of the star cup inserts. Uses less diamond than any other method and inexpensive replacement cups are available if accidentally contaminated. Recommended speed is 700 to 1400 RPM
It appears from reading on the site that the spindle is 1/2"
Also, what kind of rock would be good to start on? I know that one of my priorities is to eventually make a cab for my wife out of opal. Provided it isn't tooo expensive.
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Post by jakesrocks on Oct 12, 2010 20:11:22 GMT -5
I don't know if Rio Grande sells templates. I by almost all of my supplies from Kingsley North.
I've been eyeing those star cups too, as I have a star ruby that I want to work on. If I buy them, I'll get an extra set of cups both in copper and lead. They are really only useful for making beads and smaller round cabs.
I'd start with some inexpensive type of agate or jasper. That way if you mess the first few up, you won't be out a bunch of money. As you gain more experience and confidence, start getting more expensive material. When it comes to working opal, you might best buy some inexpensive common opal without fire, to get the feel of the material. Opal is heat sensitive, so just a little bit of overheating by not enough cooling water or too long held in one place on the buff can cause it to shatter. Opal is a pretty fragile material too.
Don
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bgast1
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Post by bgast1 on Oct 12, 2010 20:54:48 GMT -5
I noticed that Kingsley North has rough material. Do you recommend them? Also, if it is recommended that I get another wheel can I get it at Kingsley North or do I need to go back to Graves. Kingsley North has some 'beginners' opal. I already placed an order at Kingsley tonight for some stuff, but could do so tomorrow if they are a good source for rough. Sorry for all the questions but I want to get started right, and reading how to in a book sometimes just brings up a lot of questions.
Do you always have to dop?
The reason for the templates is that I would like to make my first cabs in such a way that if they are good enough they could be mounted on something, or do most of you just make cabs any old size?
I have a Black Market Minerals near me. I can buy rough real cheap there but I don't know if the rocks will be big enough or will turn out nice cabs. That was one reason why I asked if you could just grind the rocks and then polish them or if it would wear out the wheels too fast?
Also, how fast do wheels wear out and what do you do when they wear out?
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Post by jakesrocks on Oct 12, 2010 21:44:53 GMT -5
I have several pieces of rough from Kingsley North. I've been pleased with what I've bought from them
I do my rough shaping without a dop, but after I've ground to my template mark I dop them. Most of us will rough grind several cabs before dopping them.
If you're going to buy mountings for your cabs, they need to be ground to standard sizes. But if you decide to get into wire wrapping or silver smithing, you can make freeform cabs. If you're just going to display them it really doesn't matter.
If you just want to display an interesting rock, you can just grind and polish a window on one side. But for cabs, I think most of us would advise you to start with slabs about 1/4" thick. Why put extra wear on those expensive diamond wheels and disks by grinding more material off than you need to ?
How fast a diamond wheel wears out depends a lot on the person doing the grinding. If you use a light touch, and don't force the rock into the wheel, They'll last a long time. I bought my Genie around 1994 or 5, and I'm still using the original wheels. I do have 2 new rough wheels standing by, because my rough wheels have just about outlived their usefulness.
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bgast1
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Post by bgast1 on Oct 12, 2010 22:08:45 GMT -5
Where do you get the templates for standard sizes? I went to Hobby Lobby this evening and I got a plastic template of ellipses. I don't imagine I want to stick to ellipses everytime.
Good to know as far as the pressure. I had done some reading a while back where a club had bought a diamond cabbing machine and the members ruined it real quick. I was concerned because I bought some very cheap diamond burs for my Dremel and they lasted no time at all. I have since ordered some sintered diamond burs and I am told they will last a while. I hope so because they were expensive. I have learned to use a light touch, maybe even too light.
Do I need to get anymore grits of wheels, you mentioned that 80 grit. Do I have to stick to Graves to get another wheel? Graves also offers rough. They have some picture Jasper.
With my Dremel so far I have been grinding off the rough edges of the rocks and then polishing them. I am particular and sometimes I leave pits from the rocks and I subconciously don't like the job.
What about polishes, will I need any special polishing compounds? I know that I could probably use some special compounds when I work with my dremel. But now with my cab machine when it gets here I may be able to repair those rocks that I am not satisfied with.
Do most folks that do cabs own tumblers as well?
I expect that I want to show you all the results of my first cabs and then on do you know if an old Sony Cybershot megapixels will give me good pictures?
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Post by jakesrocks on Oct 12, 2010 22:27:16 GMT -5
If you have a Kingsley catalog, go to page 71. They have all of the standard templates you'll ever need.
You don't have to stick to Graves wheels, as long as the wheels come with adapters to fit your shaft. The 100 grit wheel that comes with the machine will serve as your rough wheel. I'd get a 220 grit wheel for the second stage of grinding
I think your machine comes with polish, and a polishing wheel. You might want to get an extra polishing wheel, and a half pound of Cerium Oxide polish. The diamond polish that I think comes with your machine is expensive, so reserve it for special stones.
Get yourself a supply of heavy duty zip lock bags, large enough to hold all of your wheels and disks. Store each wheel, disk and buffing wheel in its own bag and label them with grit size or polish type. Make sure when you change wheels and disks to put them in the right bag. This will prevent cross contamination . I've found that some of the heavy zip lock bags that dog treats come in work good and last a long time.
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bgast1
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Post by bgast1 on Oct 13, 2010 1:08:09 GMT -5
In case anyone is interested I found the following infomation about the Cab Mate. www.gemcutters.org/LDA/Archive/html%20files/LD099.htmJust scroll down a bit and there is a very nice critique about the machine and solutions to some problems that some folks had. While the 6"x2-1/2" expanding drum has merit and appears to make life easy, it is also expensive. I would think that if one is very careful they won't slide off the edge of the wheel and ruin thier piece. But what do I know, I've never made a cab yet.
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Post by jakesrocks on Oct 13, 2010 8:45:51 GMT -5
Interesting reading. If I was limited for shop space, I would look into one of these machines. I do like the idea of the expanding drum though, and if I were buying this machine I'd probably buy the basic machine and add my own selection of wheels and belts. For someone who is just learning cabbing, this should be all you need. As far as sliding off the disc and ruining a stone goes, it can happen on a larger machine too. I've gouged the back of a few stones on my Genie, as I'm sure many others on here have. Just take your time with each stone, and try not to work when you're overly tired. Lack of concentration is your worst enemy, even for us old timers who have been doing this for longer than we wish to admit. Good luck with your new machine, and have fun learning.
Don
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Post by rockmanken on Oct 13, 2010 9:02:47 GMT -5
I use 6 x 1-1/2" and have very seldom 'slid' off the side of the wheel. When I did, it was for lack of concentration. Also, the 6 x 1-1/2" is cheaper than the 2-1/2" drum and the belts are cheaper. Unless you are going to do very large cabs, this would be the way to go for an expando. Ken
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Post by jakesrocks on Oct 13, 2010 9:19:53 GMT -5
I agree with Ken on this. If you were going to eventually get an expanding drum for your machine, the 1-1/2" would be the way to go for several reasons. The first being cost. Both the 1-1/2" drums and belts are cheaper. Second would be the ease with which you could change grits. No taking disks off. Just turn the machine off, slide one belt off and put the next one on. And the third reason for the 1-1/2" versus 2-1/2" drum would be wear on your machine. The narrower drum would be much lighter, and create less wear on bearings.
Don
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bgast1
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Post by bgast1 on Oct 13, 2010 12:53:42 GMT -5
Thanks. I didn't think that I would slide off with the original equipment and wasn't planning on getting anymore equipment for now. I have just about gone through my budget, but quality of cab I make is the most key issue. If getting an additional wheel will help in that regard, I am not opposed to getting one more wheel. But I have to do it now or I probably won't be able to afford it later.
I also purchased 3 pieces of rough from Graves. I have a Black Market Minerals near me where I can purchase rough rocks very very cheap. (or at least cheap for me) I don't really know how well they would cab though. I think most of their agate slabs are dyed and I don't think I want that. Plus I have a bunch of rocks that I collected on the shore of Lake Michigan that I would just like to polish.
If I ever run into money again in the future. My next goals are a sphere machine and/or faceting machine. (I used to sell precision ground plastic balls for a living)
I just found that what I linked to was interesting and wanted to share it with you all.
And thank all of you for the help, and encouragement. This forum is fantastic.
Bob
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bgast1
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Post by bgast1 on Oct 13, 2010 13:13:12 GMT -5
One more question (I guess there is always one more ;D) how quickly do the discs wear out. I don't quite understand the concept of them with the machine yet, as I haven't received it yet. I guess my real concern is will I end up making 10 cabs and then have to replace discs? I am hoping that this hobby is not going to be overly expensive once I am set up and it appears that I am pretty close to set up for the time being. I will have a cab machine. I have my dremel. I have a drill press stand for it coming to me, and a decent set of burs so I can also start doing some carving. My wife has a stone I made for her and she wants me to put a hole in it so she can put it on a chain. I still need to get some drill bits. I have several books on Lapidary. One is old and out of print. John Sinkankas. Introduction to Lapidary by Pansy D. Kraus. I have all the time in the world because I am currently unemployed and haven't found a job yet. I'd say I am pretty well set.
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Post by jakesrocks on Oct 13, 2010 13:41:20 GMT -5
The info on the Graves machine doesn't really say what kind of disk they supply. If it's a metal bonded disk, it should last a long time, provided of course that you don't try to force it to do more than it was designed to do. You won't speed up the process by forcing the rock into the disk. Also remember that diamond tools must be run wet. Never allow yourself to run out of water. As to just how many cabs a disk will cut, that depends on how the disk was constructed, and the user. Don
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