chromenut
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2009
Posts: 1,971
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Post by chromenut on Feb 14, 2011 18:58:00 GMT -5
Came across a tile shop going out of business, offering the Pearl 7" for $338, I offered $250 hoping to land a deal on $275. Nice setup, needs a blade, but has the stand and stainless pan, adjustable flow rate pump, 3/4 horse motor, etc. All I know about this is what I've gleaned from the videos on youtube, anyone got any sage words of advice on it?
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Post by deb193redux on Feb 14, 2011 20:49:23 GMT -5
it is still 7". for $250, consider the Harbor Freight 10" of the same design.
while we are on the design, the big advantage is the rolling table. You can strap down large rough and push it into the blade to make slits to get a chisel into. it still works as a trim saw, but IMHO not as good as one where the work meets the blade at 90-deg.
The disadvantages are no autofeed, no vise, no cross-feed, and the sharp angle where the blade meets the work.
There are pros and cons to the design.
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Post by johnjsgems on Feb 15, 2011 9:24:02 GMT -5
I agree with Daniel. With 7" you are stuck with thick blades and 2" or less cuts. With a 10" you can find readily available lapidary blades that will actually cut rock and larger rocks as well. Some of the fancier 7" tile saws are used with thick/expensive glass blades for precise angle cuts on stained glass work.
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,113
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Post by stefan on Feb 15, 2011 9:44:59 GMT -5
Depends on what you want out of a saw. If your working smaller stuff or making chisel slots then this works just fine. If you think your gonna toss a 7" thick hunk of jasper up there and make 1/8" thick perfect slabs- well think again. 7" blades are not real popular in the lapidary field, so your pretty much stuck with the thicked tile saw blades (the thinnest I've come across that I could afford was the MK Hotdog blade at about $50) If your cutting expensive material your gonna want a thinner blade (less waste) but for common cheap stuff the thicker blades work just fine. With a 3/4 hp motor not much is going to slow this saw down. THe sliding table design is a nice idea to have especially if you can clamp the rock down to the table (a lot easier to push the table than to have to try to hand feed a rock). It is all going to boil down to what works for you!
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chromenut
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2009
Posts: 1,971
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Post by chromenut on Feb 15, 2011 10:02:19 GMT -5
Well, interesting that I got an email today from one of the managers at the corporate offices for Sunbelt Rentals here in Charlotte. Literally, within 10 seconds of receiving it I was on the phone with him. He's going down today to pick up a 10" Target T6003\051041, says it's sitting in one of their recently closed stores in Rock Hill, SC, and he's bringing it up to Charlotte this afternoon. I can't find ANY info on this saw online. He didn't have any info on it either, came from their acquisition of another rental company. He says it's in good working order and I can have it for $178, and is giving me the opportunity at first dibs.
Anybody got any info on this saw? I think it's a rail saw, which means I'd have to get a good clamping system to work stone on it, or maybe modify it to allow for some type of auto-feed.
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Post by jakesrocks on Feb 15, 2011 10:11:51 GMT -5
No info on the saw, but if it's a rail saw it shouldn't be too hard to make a weight feed for it.
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chromenut
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2009
Posts: 1,971
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Post by chromenut on Feb 15, 2011 10:34:02 GMT -5
He's gonna send me a photo this evening, hopefully I'll have me a 10" saw tomorrow for darned cheap! Also he said he's got one similar that he converted to gravity feed, with fixed clamp for the stone, said it took him an afternoon to convert it, so hope I can do the same!
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Post by catmandewe on Feb 15, 2011 11:20:32 GMT -5
I have a target 10' saw and it is a small rail saw. We use it to cut large tiles when we do floors. It should be a pretty good saw for ya and easy to convert.
Good luck..............Tony
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Post by jakesrocks on Feb 15, 2011 11:24:39 GMT -5
Robin, you might want to consider a ready made vice for one of the saws in the lapidary catalogs. You may have to modify it slightly, but it would give you an inch or more of cross feed for slabbing, without having to loosen the clamp and move the rock each time you want to make a new cut. Don
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Post by deb193redux on Feb 15, 2011 11:34:13 GMT -5
Reasonably cheap on a reasonably (but not overly) useful design.
I would probably buy it because I have been thinking about ways to block up some of my larger rough so I can put it on the 10" or 12" slab saws.
As an only saw or 1st saw it may still be a good deal, but should be one gotten with open eyes.
It is a constructions saw, uses water, splashes a lot. Even if a vise is rigged and a gravity feed added, it will not have a cross feed, so not too many perfect slabs.
Also while it is easy to handfeed rough by sliding it across the table of a 10" trim saw, it will not be so easy to handfeed rough by pushing the table forward - you will not have the control over the precise placement/thickness of the slabbett. It may not be the ideal tool to trim shapes out of slabs.
When you push work onto a blade where the motion is 90-deg downwards, the the work is pressed against the table. with this design, the work is pushed under the blade with the rotation going in the same direction as the push. The possibility for the blade to grab the rough and wedge against the table, or break it and shoot the pieces off the back of the saw is high.
Remember these were designed for large tiles laying flat on a table and not rounded rocks.
This company seem to build $1000+ tile saws with 1.5 or 2hp motors. Getting one for under $200 is a deal. But be careful of that motor grabbing a rock or finger under the blade. Be clear upfront that you will not have cross-feed. Realize that this does not have a spray hood.
it is *a* tool, but not the be-all of rock saw tools. The price is good, especially if the blade is porcelain quality.
It would be good to check the arbor size just in case this only takes 1" holes or something.
Happy cutting whatever you get.
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Post by deb193redux on Feb 15, 2011 11:50:43 GMT -5
Robin, you might want to consider a ready made vice for one of the saws in the lapidary catalogs. You may have to modify it slightly, but it would give you an inch or more of cross feed for slabbing, without having to loosen the clamp and move the rock each time you want to make a new cut. Don the only vise I have seen for these types of saws is the one sold to go with the BD-2014, which is a lapidary version of the MK-101. The rockshed wants $60, but I think cyberrockhound has it for $50. You might have to do some drilling if the holes in the bottom plate do not line up with holes on the table you get. This would have some cross feed. Not calibrated with threaded rod, but you can loosen the wing nut and slide the clamp part closer to the blade. It is only built to hold about 2" rocks, but you might be able to take the general design and build something for 3.5" rocks. ----------- Also check if the saw's pump and water delivery system is in good order. Since the blade does not dip down into the water tray, you need a dirty-water pump and some tubing to deliver coolant water to either the top, or preferably both sides of the blade. If you have to buy a new pump, or re-plumb the thing, and/or buy a new blade, and buy a vise, the total cost of getting and operating should be considered.
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Post by jakesrocks on Feb 15, 2011 12:11:11 GMT -5
You might want to check the vice made for the Lortone TS10. It's made to mount to the saw table. With just slight modifications it should be able to be mounted on a sliding table, and will give you cross feed. Last years Kingsley North catalog had it for $41.50. There are several other optional vices listed also. Don
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Post by deb193redux on Feb 15, 2011 12:22:16 GMT -5
the Lortone vise ( www.kingsleynorth.com/skshop/product.php?id=95655&catID=1036) is not so well suited. It is a smaller version of the BD clamp on a sliding rail. SInce I considered adding one of these rail saws to my collection, I did a lot of homework on the vise options. I even considered a ratchet strap modification to hold larger rocks in the small wooden jaws. Much of the Lortone vise is about the clamp sliding along the bar. But in the case of a rail saw, the table is already sliding along the rails. Getting the slightly larger clamp, with a base plate made to bolt down to the table seems like the best bet.
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Post by jakesrocks on Feb 15, 2011 13:18:18 GMT -5
I suspect that if someone could find a vise for an old Star Diamond 10" saw, It would be quite easy to make it work on a rail saw. It would have almost 2" of cross feed, and could even be swung out of the way for trimming cabs. The only modifications needed would be a 90 degree bend, and a couple of holes to bolt it to the sliding table.
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Post by catmandewe on Feb 15, 2011 14:43:17 GMT -5
On a rail saw the saw moves on the rail, the work table stays stationary. If you can't find a clamp with a crossfeed, I am sure I can find one in my pile of junk. Not sure how well the rail saw will cut large rough though, it all depends on how stable the rail is and how much deflection you will get with your saw moving along the rail. The rail saw that I have would not make a good slab saw unless it were converted to something else, I would think you would be able to convert it to a drop saw fairly easily, and crossfeed would just be a matter of a threaded rod either on the clamp or on the saw head.
I can take some pictures of drop saws that I have here if you need something to reference against.
Have a great day.............Tony
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Post by deb193redux on Feb 15, 2011 15:53:35 GMT -5
I had the rails under the table and the overhead of a rail saw confused. I think an overhead rail saw would be even more unfriendly for the lapidary hobbyist. ---------------- As for modifying an old Starr saw clamp, possibly. I would need to see the exact vise design. On my old Beacon Starr, I had the vise with autofeed. The vise ran on a little rail on the side, but the cross feed used a threaded rod that sat below the assembly. The actual clamp was a wood top block, two threaded side columns and a bottom plate that bolted down to the assembly that rode the rail and had the cross-feed. It is hard to see in this picture, but the point is that the vise was lifted up about 3/4" and the screw for the crossfeed was underneath. So the clamp part could easily be bolted to the sliding table, but then no cross-feed. Maybe some of the other Starr saws had a different design vise. I think the vise on some old RayTech had a good cross feed and it ran on a rail that was to the side - not underneath the clamp, so it could possibly deliver clamp and cross-feed without to much modification. At least it might deliver more than the Lortone clamp. But a lot of the blade-overhead saws are actually adjustable so that the blade does not have to be lowered all the way down to the table. (Some of the more expensive ones can even do plunge cuts.) This would permit the use of a vise that was lifted above the table, but not require sacrificing any depth of cut. I think the screw driven cross-feeds are best. But the wing-nut and slot are likely good enough. The cross-feed comes from sliding the wood block in and out of the vise box by as much as that long oval slot around the thread rod permits. All of the saw manufactures that do not use the cross-feed screw underneath seem to use this sliding slot. I do not know why nobody designed a vise with the screw for the cross feed behind the clamp instead of underneath. Here is a custom vise designed for a larger saw, but the designer still put the cross feed underneath. I guess it is because most slab saws do not have tables and there is plenty of real estate underneath. After all the thinking I did, I thought I would use a plate that bolted to the table, and then bolt the BD-type clamp to the plate in such a way that it could be slid in and out to give extra cross-feed. Seemed the cheapest and most flexible modification. But I did not pursue it because I have good cross-feed on my other saws. I also considered clamps sold for drill presses. These have a cross feed and a good clamping adjustment, and sturdy jaws. Some of the ones made for bench top drill presses are not too bid, and can be had cheaply at Harbor Freight. They are already designed to be bolted down to the drill press table, so may not need any modification. On the table of a trim saw it would take up too much room to the right of the blade, but here the table is large and there is no lip on the right hand side. Should be plenty of room for the work to be held in the clamp but have a lot sticking out to the left to be cross feed into the saw blade. Also if the blade can be lifted above the table about 1.5 inches, then there is plenty of room for the height of the vise. www.harborfreight.com/5-inch-cross-slide-vise-32996.htmlI figured it would be rust prone however.
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Post by jakesrocks on Feb 15, 2011 16:34:30 GMT -5
You're right about the Harbor Freight cross feed vise being rust prone. I left one sitting in my garage all winter a couple years ago, and had to completely take it apart and use Scotch Brite wheels to get all of the rust off. Also, they aren't very precision. Found some slop in the cross feed, even when it was brand new.
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chromenut
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2009
Posts: 1,971
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Post by chromenut on Feb 15, 2011 17:50:49 GMT -5
I don't even know what you mean by a crossfeed...sigh, still a virgin....
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Post by deb193redux on Feb 15, 2011 23:29:48 GMT -5
well, I will let the pictures and the context teach you what crossfeed is. it is kind of apparent.
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chromenut
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2009
Posts: 1,971
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Post by chromenut on Feb 16, 2011 9:22:22 GMT -5
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