|
|
Post by helens on Aug 14, 2012 15:35:28 GMT -5
Wow... how interesting. I've never even heard of sand spurs!!
Mel, the red one looks a lot like maryellen jasper, so naming isn't a particular TYPE of rock, it's a LOCATION of rock? I never quite understood that distinction (and 'maryellen' doesn't sound like a location).
The firefly looks just like firecracker obsidian from Mexico...
Love seeing stuff I've never seen before:).
|
|
|
|
Post by jakesrocks on Aug 14, 2012 16:16:49 GMT -5
LOL, that's Sand Spikes Helen.
|
|
|
|
Post by helens on Aug 14, 2012 16:24:00 GMT -5
LOL, that's Sand Spikes Helen. Oops!! I meant sand spikes!! LOL! You know what they look like? Big giant clumps of cauliflowers... and if I had to guess a use, I'd say they were naturally formed clubs, and I could see prehistoric cavemen beating each other about the heads with those if they were as hard as jaspers:). I mean seriously, you wouldn't even have to go make a weapon, if those were hard enough you just find some, and you'd be all set:). I know you said they were delicate, I'm just saying that's the first thing I would have thought of if I saw it laying on the ground:P. |
|
Sabre52
Cave Dweller 
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,496
|
Post by Sabre52 on Aug 14, 2012 16:37:16 GMT -5
Helen: Naming rocks is mainly a matter of who assigns the name. Some are named for location ie Sweetwater Agate or Montana Agate, some for a person ie; Howardite, or Stephanite or sometimes for physical appearance ie: your firecracker obsidian. I prefer names that reflect physical appearance just as folk name birds but maybe that's just me *L*. Names that reflect appearance and location are even more useful ie: Morgan Hill Poppy Jasper. Both my examples are subvarieties of Hornitos Poppy Jasper and are gold bearing and hematite rich too.
As my examples are in the poppy/orbicular/flowering jasper type group. They are actually cherts of marine origin and are kinda composed of piles of little three-D spheres which appear as concentric circles or flower like structures when we cut across them with a saw. Stromatolitic Jaspers, like Mary Ellen, vaguely resemble poppy jasper from certain angles but the structure is more like a stacked or layered columns as that's how stony algae grows. Mary Ellen Jasper is actually a pseudomorph after very old and primitive stony algae.
Obsidian and jasper are both quartz minerals but the structures in firecracker obsidian are crystal structures of cristobalite ( a type of quartz crystal). The crystal structures in poppy jasper are very similar I suppose, but with more color from iron salts and are supposed to have formed in a marine ooze whereas obsidian is fast cooling volcanic quartz glass with those little cristobalite spheres. The areas that appear black like obsidian in the Firefly Jasper are actually deep purple hematite which actually polishes out with a metallic look to it in some specimens.
Daniel and I here at the site have had long discussions on the origin of poppy jasper and there are a few papers on the subject but having been a poppy fanatic for years and years, I still find a lot of examples that don't fit the mold. For example, the last Sierra Primrose sample I've posted above has some spheres that appear to be more geometric like the hexagons one would associate with birdseye rhyolite or the Flor de Chihuahua type rhyolite from Mexico and those are of volcanic origin. So that makes me wonder of some of the Hornitos Poppy Jasper is a highly silicified rhyolte of volcanic origin rather than a marine chert. This is even further confused by the geology of the region the Hornitos Jasper is found in as it contains one of the few outcroppings of marine Jurassic chert in the Sierra Nevada mountains and is also famous for brecciated jasper which, in California, is supposed to also be a marine chert. Overall, I suppose most folks don't give a darn how it forms but I'm kinda weird that way and it fascinates me *L*.....Mel
Oh yeah,
Mary Ellen Jasper is named after a location, the Mary Ellen Mine in the iron ranges of Minnesota. I suppose that's why it contains so much hematite which is, of course, an iron ore.
|
|
|
|
Post by gingerkid on Aug 14, 2012 18:14:00 GMT -5
Enjoying the pics in your thread, Helen!! LOL, that's Sand Spikes Helen. Oops!! I meant sand spikes!! LOL! You know what they look like? Big giant clumps of cauliflowers... and if I had to guess a use, I'd say they were naturally formed clubs, and I could see prehistoric cavemen beating each other about the heads with those if they were as hard as jaspers:). I mean seriously, you wouldn't even have to go make a weapon, if those were hard enough you just find some, and you'd be all set . I know you said they were delicate, I'm just saying that's the first thing I would have thought of if I saw it laying on the ground:P. ROFL, Helen!! |
|
|
|
Post by helens on Aug 14, 2012 23:21:06 GMT -5
Helen: Naming rocks is mainly a matter of who assigns the name. Some are named for location ie Sweetwater Agate or Montana Agate, some for a person ie; Howardite, or Stephanite or sometimes for physical appearance ie: your firecracker obsidian. I prefer names that reflect physical appearance just as folk name birds but maybe that's just me *L*. Names that reflect appearance and location are even more useful ie: Morgan Hill Poppy Jasper. Both my examples are subvarieties of Hornitos Poppy Jasper and are gold bearing and hematite rich too. As my examples are in the poppy/orbicular/flowering jasper type group. They are actually cherts of marine origin and are kinda composed of piles of little three-D spheres which appear as concentric circles or flower like structures when we cut across them with a saw. Stromatolitic Jaspers, like Mary Ellen, vaguely resemble poppy jasper from certain angles but the structure is more like a stacked or layered columns as that's how stony algae grows. Mary Ellen Jasper is actually a pseudomorph after very old and primitive stony algae. Obsidian and jasper are both quartz minerals but the structures in firecracker obsidian are crystal structures of cristobalite ( a type of quartz crystal). The crystal structures in poppy jasper are very similar I suppose, but with more color from iron salts and are supposed to have formed in a marine ooze whereas obsidian is fast cooling volcanic quartz glass with those little cristobalite spheres. The areas that appear black like obsidian in the Firefly Jasper are actually deep purple hematite which actually polishes out with a metallic look to it in some specimens. Daniel and I here at the site have had long discussions on the origin of poppy jasper and there are a few papers on the subject but having been a poppy fanatic for years and years, I still find a lot of examples that don't fit the mold. For example, the last Sierra Primrose sample I've posted above has some spheres that appear to be more geometric like the hexagons one would associate with birdseye rhyolite or the Flor de Chihuahua type rhyolite from Mexico and those are of volcanic origin. So that makes me wonder of some of the Hornitos Poppy Jasper is a highly silicified rhyolte of volcanic origin rather than a marine chert. This is even further confused by the geology of the region the Hornitos Jasper is found in as it contains one of the few outcroppings of marine Jurassic chert in the Sierra Nevada mountains and is also famous for brecciated jasper which, in California, is supposed to also be a marine chert. Overall, I suppose most folks don't give a darn how it forms but I'm kinda weird that way and it fascinates me *L*.....Mel Oh yeah, Mary Ellen Jasper is named after a location, the Mary Ellen Mine in the iron ranges of Minnesota. I suppose that's why it contains so much hematite which is, of course, an iron ore. Mel, that's really interesting!!! I don't think you're weird at all wanting to know how they form. If you are really fascinated about something, anything, you want to know EVERYTHING about it! And that is a very fascinating subject! No wonder people like to defer to you about rocks, you really get down to the nuts and bolts:). (I like reading it too:)) So much info... I had no idea that the orbitals were once marine structures... they are beautiful, and among my favorites, but I never thought of how they formed. I think I'm a poppy fanatic too!!! Starting right about when there's hardly any poppy left to be found:)!! Your 3rd pix up from the bottom (the red from the firefly pits) looks like red blood cells!!!!!! My greatest fascination is with rocks that mimic things we see... landscape pictures, abstracts, animal/objects, phantom images and rainbows, and... red/white blood cells!!! Every time I see one like that, I get excited... millions of year old blueprints for stuff we see around us! It's humbling. |
|
|
|
Post by helens on Aug 14, 2012 23:22:06 GMT -5
Jan, I come up with odd analogies:P. hehehe... but admit it! You know it looks like a cauliflower!!!!  |
|
robsrockshop
has rocks in the head
Member since August 2012
Posts: 715
|
Post by robsrockshop on Aug 15, 2012 7:23:59 GMT -5
Jakesrocks: I'm pretty sure that is one of Big Bird's ancestors.
|
|
Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,496
|
Post by Sabre52 on Aug 15, 2012 16:04:26 GMT -5
Helen, What always fascinated me was occasionally, I'd find a hunk of that Primrose jasper where the orbs were not sealed together so it appeared like a conglomeration of BBs. I'd seen that before with Ocean Jasper which is often kind of vuggy and sometimes has spheres that are not fully included in the agate but I'd never before seen it in poppy jasper . Another weird thing that occurred up at Hornitos was the Hornitos Brecciated Jasper beds ( also called Sierra Jasper) co existed with the poppy jasper and sometimes you'd find half and half specimens and sometimes specimens where the breccia seemed to be busted up poppies but not fifty feet away from the poppy pit, the brecciated jasper pit had totally different color schemes. I'd think similar minerals and proximity would yield very similar colors but this was not the way it worked. There was another deposit though, maybe a half mile away that had both brecciated and poppy jasper but there the color schemes did repeat but the poppies were unlike any other I've ever found. Really miss prospecting out there. There were literally jasper deposits all over the place.....Mel
|
|
|
|
Post by stardiamond on Aug 15, 2012 17:41:21 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by helens on Aug 15, 2012 18:45:00 GMT -5
Very neat:). It must have been so much fun to have seen so many 'mines' when they were new and there were loads of gorgeous rocks:).
Really pretty rocks Stardiamond:).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2012 19:37:55 GMT -5
When are you going to write the book Mel? You have a wealth of information that is very interesting.
Jim
|
|
|
|
Post by jakesrocks on Aug 15, 2012 19:47:05 GMT -5
My new favorite rock. Matching halves of a Fairburn that was broken by nature possibly hundreds of years ago. A one in tens of thousands chance of ever finding both halves.  |
|
|
|
Post by helens on Aug 15, 2012 21:07:16 GMT -5
YAH!!!! You guys really should get together and write a rock book!!! Pix, descriptions, where found, and HISTORY of the rocks there... mel, lowell, don, and all the other old timer rock hounds. Not much profit spread around like that, but this is for posterity. Your book would immortalize what you know and who you are.
I'd buy it, bet most people would too (want mine autographed of course:P!!!!!!!!!!!!).
|
|
|
|
Post by helens on Aug 15, 2012 21:08:45 GMT -5
Oh wait! I'll write the foreword so I can get a free copy and be immortalized too! Of course, I will include the critically important part about how it was politics that got the book started! LOL! *ducks*
|
|
|
|
Post by jakesrocks on Aug 15, 2012 21:34:27 GMT -5
The last one came from the Creston gravel pit in western S.D.
|
|
Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,496
|
Post by Sabre52 on Aug 15, 2012 23:39:39 GMT -5
Wow that Fairburn is a corker Jake!
Dang it sucks being called an old timer *L*. Those poppy beds were all worked back in the 60's and my buddy and I only rediscovered the old workings a few years ago and found several new places in the process.
You know, I have tried to write books. Have several unfinished novels laying around somewhere and have had a little non fiction experience but, to me , you're either a writer or a reader plus I have this incredibly short attention span and way too many interests. I just never seem to find time finish any books I start *sigh*.
And something I think you'll all find as you get older, is you get more fixed in your ways and your schedule more regimented. Time really does seem to move faster and I detest having my schedule changed. Got my gym days, my shopping days, my horse riding days, my ranch work days, my shooting days etc. Lately I haven't even found a lot of time for the rocks but there the frying hot temps of the Texas summer make sitting in the shop not all that fun. Aye God I'm waxing all philosophical and sh*t too*L*. I guess I am getting to be a friggin old coot *L*....Mel
|
|
|
|
Post by helens on Aug 16, 2012 10:10:28 GMT -5
Wow that Fairburn is a corker Jake! Dang it sucks being called an old timer *L*. Those poppy beds were all worked back in the 60's and my buddy and I only rediscovered the old workings a few years ago and found several new places in the process. You know, I have tried to write books. Have several unfinished novels laying around somewhere and have had a little non fiction experience but, to me , you're either a writer or a reader plus I have this incredibly short attention span and way too many interests. I just never seem to find time finish any books I start *sigh*. And something I think you'll all find as you get older, is you get more fixed in your ways and your schedule more regimented. Time really does seem to move faster and I detest having my schedule changed. Got my gym days, my shopping days, my horse riding days, my ranch work days, my shooting days etc. Lately I haven't even found a lot of time for the rocks but there the frying hot temps of the Texas summer make sitting in the shop not all that fun. Aye God I'm waxing all philosophical and sh*t too*L*. I guess I am getting to be a friggin old coot *L*....Mel Well... this forum is a collaboration. A book can be a collaboration. Lowell is ALREADY doing the index, why can't the people most knowledgeable about the rocks themselves, where they were found, write a small caption and story for each one? You guys post interesting enough details about individual rocks here that people come to read them, why wouldn't they read it in illustrated full color form? With your stories immortalized? Maybe a word limit for each entry? Why can't Lowell organize it as editor/author with you guys as contributors? He's already doing it?  ? I'll even volunteer to help edit the text if it's too overwhelming. He MIGHT be interested if you guys were:P. Why not:)? |
|
elementary
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2006
Posts: 1,077
|
Post by elementary on Aug 17, 2012 20:17:30 GMT -5
Hey Helen!
Love the ideas and enthusiam! Enthuciasm...enthuseasm...How the hell do you spell enthusiasm? Oh....got it that time...]
One of the many ideas I have had on my plate for a while (one I haven't delved into too much due to both the download issues and lately time issues working on other projects - discussed ad nauseam elsewhere) is to do a 'monthly' download magazine with contents taken from the field trip reports and personal rocks shared. Basically, you put the scattered bits of knowledge and adventures and personal stories here on this board (and can be others) into a semi-permanent state as an ebook.
The reasons for the agate index being an electronic book (and this goes back to your idea of writing a physical book) are several-and you'll see they merge into each other:
0) It's done for love of the hobby and to give freely back to those who share my love.
1) Cost for others - Presently it's free. Know who likes free things? Everybody-more demand. You know who likes paying for things? Hardly anybody unless there is good/great value and low risk - lower demand.
If I sold the index, then most likely some people would want to be paid for images, then I need contracts of some kind. I'm not a lawyer - don't want to be. Keeping it free allows as many people who can access it to gain a copy.
1.5) Cost for me - Free. I pay no upfront fees to publishing houses for initial printing. I don't need to worry about buying ads to sell product. Right now I only offer contributor credit and links to websites as payment. If someone loves their image so much that want to charge, then they can have their image. I like the idea of people from everywhere participating in this endeavor. {Group hug}
2) Space - I don't need to have a wearhouse or rent space to store copies. Computer memory takes up a lot less room....
3) Reprint ease - If you print a book and then revise, then you need people to shell out money to buy a product that is not 100% new. E-books can be revised and replaced on share sites so people can just redownload the revised book at no cost. (Unlike IPads which have been upgraded - what? - 6 times in the last five years? Try trading in your old one for a new for no extra cost....) Why shell out money now if there might be a better version coming out in 6 months.
4) Distribution - No mailing. No returns. No damaged copies (minus friggen viruses that is...but that is a distribution issue - not a product issue....) Again - I need to find a reliable way of distribution outside of John's generous efforts.
5) Control - Ah, yes. Control. I control the actual production so no errors will be attributed to someone else. I am the end body in deciding what goes in (with invaluable input from Mel to keep me on the straight and narrow).
6) Time - I don't need to worry about printing times and shipping times. Once a book is finished, it's posted and available. Viola!
**** What it costs is time to create one. Lots and lots of time.
With that said - I'd love to see a book of rockhounding experiences - especially dating back to the earliest memories of our longest lived rockhounds. Photos and stories of places forgotten or closed. Images of the contraptions made to gather and carry stone. Stories of driving at night when A/C was rare and the desert presented a wide space of trackless landscapes. You get the picture....
Love the idea - just wanted to state the limitations of physical publishing vs. ebooks.
BTW - If you read my whole post...you need to get a hobby cause it's probably one of the driest things I've ever put on this board and you must be desperate for something to do!....
Lowell
|
|
|
|
Post by helens on Aug 17, 2012 20:38:17 GMT -5
Well, some people LIKE hardcopies:)... not the least of which the photography detail:).
But since you're doing an ebook ANYWAY... adding the text wouldn't be such a big deal, and then you can shop an editor?? Or is the fact that it's been an ebook mean no editor would be interested? (I read that somewhere a while ago, but not sure if it's true).
That guy Hans Gamma published a book... and I'm holding it in my hand, and I think most of us bought one?? There's nothing but pix... and they're mostly the same pix on his website. At most there's maybe 5 paragraphs of text.
Would I pay $28 again for it? Yes. Because the PICTURES are accurate, not subject to monitors, and I can lay in bed surrounded with crumbs (not really), drinking milk and reading it:P. Getting milk and crumbs all over my keyboard is not ok.
It's a thought:). I'm a FAST writer, but I'm not an accurate editor (you can probably tell by my posts:P). But if you and the others are interested in the idea, I'd be happy to help where I can.
As for money, that's easy... % contribution for % benefit. If there's a cost, same % of cost. If you supply 10 pix out of 500 pix, what's that worth? Pix 50% / text 50%. For example, if you provide 10 pix, no text, that's 1/50 of 1/2 (other half for the text).
Editors gets 20% for the collation off the top (plus % of content contribution). Now that's my off the top of head breakdown, which naturally you can refine, but a % break like that is very fair, no one's getting ripped off, and everyone can contribute.
Honestly, contribute <X> pix and text for a FREE COPY alone is worth it, your name's in lights to show your family and friends. Ok, at least somewhere in the 'contributors' page, like movie credits... how kewl is that? You are now published!!!
There's several self-publishing outfits, Lulu is one. If you can shop it with 'real' editors who will front a payment, even better:).
It's your baby, you've been doing this a long time! A hardback book that's going to have a copy in the Library of Congress, that people can reference for the next 100 years? I don't think it's about money, it's also about recognition and giving people a nice big book they contributed to too:).
Anyway, it's a neat thought, and if you decide you want to do it or would like some help, let me know:).
|
|
.
?
