halitedigger
starting to spend too much on rocks
Lost in the Mojave, Sierras or Itoigawa
Member since September 2013
Posts: 104
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Post by halitedigger on Apr 23, 2014 14:20:17 GMT -5
At my club meeting last night a woman informed us that the BLM is looking to require groups of more than 2 people to get costly permits to go out doing our hobby. www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/info/rac/dac/dac_srp_subgroup.htmlThere is a meeting at the Moreno Valley office tonight at 6pm. Be there or be screwed. When: April 23, 2014 Location: BLM California Desert District Office 22835 Calle San Juan de Los Lagos Moreno Valley, CA 92553 Time: 6:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. The California Desert District Advisory Council (DAC) has established an ongoing Special Recreation Permit (SRP) Subgroup. The subgroup will identify operational issues in the application of required SRP procedures, provide comments about current or proposed actions by BLM, and aid in accurately communicating SRP procedures to interested parties. The subgroup will report its findings to the full DAC, which ultimately advises BLM’s California Desert District Manager.
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plumberinaz
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since June 2013
Posts: 186
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Post by plumberinaz on Apr 23, 2014 14:23:32 GMT -5
eff THE BLM!!! Greedy effing Goverment is overstepping there boundries once again...
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Post by rockpickerforever on Apr 23, 2014 14:36:33 GMT -5
This is probably just the start of them overstepping their bounds, and infringing on our rights. They've been trying to keep us all off OUR public lands for years now. Martial law, no emergency required to invoke it. Why do you think all these govt agencies have been purchasing ammo?
Thanks for posting that, halitedigger. The meeting is tonight??? I think we're screwed even if we do go. They've been yanking prospectors around for a while, too. Banned dredging, all that. Members of my prospecting group are heading up that way to a meeting on May 1, to attempt to keep our rights from being stomped all over.
Greedy govt, ya got that right, Chris.
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grayfingers
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Member since November 2007
Posts: 4,575
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Post by grayfingers on Apr 23, 2014 15:09:46 GMT -5
Kudos to you for posting this. I guess there are things many of us agree on, regardless of other differences. So, they want to charge the people to use federal land for their own enjoyment and or benefit. Sounds like there is a lot of that going around. Kind of ironic, we the people own the land, we pay the salaries of all involved in the 'administration' of these lands, and we also fund those who seek to close it off to the general public altogether.
Being the flawed humans we are, we tend to protest such injustice most loudly when it is our Ox that is being gored. In the use of federal lands, one could argue that the use by a single entity or group who's activities benefit both them and the general public might be more widely accepted than use that only benefits the individuals themselves. Now consider two uses of federal lands, grazing cattle on renewable grasses, and collecting rocks and minerals for personal gain. Don't get me wrong, I believe one should be able to utilize all resources on federal lands, short of doing damage to the land. Non commercial rock collecting on BLM lands is well within reason, so is a rancher raising beef to feed us.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Apr 23, 2014 15:24:47 GMT -5
Bill, you do realize that Harry Reid is behind the Bundy fiasco in Nevada, right? Wants to get the cattle off the land, so the Chinese can build a solar plant there. Yes, the Chinese want to get something out of all the debt the US owes them, Reid is happy to oblige. Has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone paying or not paying grazing fees, nor is it about desert tortoises.
Let me know if you'd like to see some of this information I have gotten. Jean
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halitedigger
starting to spend too much on rocks
Lost in the Mojave, Sierras or Itoigawa
Member since September 2013
Posts: 104
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Post by halitedigger on Apr 23, 2014 16:03:12 GMT -5
I will take notes and update everyone. What I heard was word of mouth. $100 for a group of 3 or more, special use permit. We have them in the Forests here, $30 a year and I'm on the fence about those for several reasons, cleaning up, keeping the drug users and growers out etc., but ya, a double tax.
Most of you know where I stand on the Bundy issue so let's try and keep this thread on topic, us, not Bundy.
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grayfingers
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Member since November 2007
Posts: 4,575
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Post by grayfingers on Apr 23, 2014 16:05:18 GMT -5
Oh, yeah. Jean I know all about Harry, been onto him for years. The Bureau of Land Management, whose director was Sen. Harry Reid’s (D-Nev.) former senior adviser, has purged documents from its web site stating that the agency wants Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy’s cattle off of the land his family has worked for over 140 years in order to make way for solar panel power stations. Deleted from BLM.gov but reposted for posterity by the Free Republic, the BLM document entitled “Cattle Trespass Impacts” directly states that Bundy’s cattle “impacts” solar development, more specifically the construction of “utility-scale solar power generation facilities” on “public lands.” “Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle,” the document states. www.infowars.com/breaking-sen-harry-reid-behind-blm-land-grab-of-bundy-ranch/This means that Dirty Harry needs the BLM lands Bundy is grazing to mitigate or make up for the lands nearby where he is wanting to do his dirty deals done done cheap. Reid and the BLM needed a “cover story” to take the land away from the ranchers. So they claim it’s about protecting the “endangered” desert tortoise. But if the protection of the desert tortoise was so important to the BLM, why did the same BLM kill hundreds of desert tortoises last fall? I was reading the tortoises were in reality benefited by the cows, they eat the dung itself, and the vegetation it provides nutrients for. One theory is that the cattle being there for the past century and a half may be the reason the tortoise population was highest there. If protecting the tortoises was so important, why has the BLM constantly waived rules protecting the desert tortoise for multiple solar and wind projects? If cattle are a danger to tortoises, why are solar panels and wind turbines not a danger? Dirty Harry’s Clean Energy Cronyism How Harry Reid has been pulling strings for Chinese solar energy company freebeacon.com/politics/dirty-harrys-clean-energy-cronyism/
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grayfingers
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Member since November 2007
Posts: 4,575
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Post by grayfingers on Apr 23, 2014 16:06:22 GMT -5
I see, halitedigger . . . selective morality. . . sigh*
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Post by rockpickerforever on Apr 23, 2014 16:45:45 GMT -5
I will take notes and update everyone. What I heard was word of mouth. $100 for a group of 3 or more, special use permit. We have them in the Forests here, $30 a year and I'm on the fence about those for several reasons, cleaning up, keeping the drug users and growers out etc., but ya, a double tax. Most of you know where I stand on the Bundy issue so let's try and keep this thread on topic, us, not Bundy. Thanks, halitedigger. Looking forward to what you hear "straight from the horse's mouth" (or whatever.)
Sorry to disrupt your thread, I'll say nothing more.
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owyhee
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
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Post by owyhee on Apr 23, 2014 17:32:21 GMT -5
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
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Post by Sabre52 on Apr 23, 2014 18:05:13 GMT -5
So basically, the friggin BLM is wanting to tax us for using "our own land" for recreational purposes.. These taxes of course will be used to pay for more damn armed, aggressive, BLM police to further prohibit, restrict and regulate our recreational use of "our own land" with the final goal of keeping us off the land period. Vicious circle it seems.....Mel
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2014 18:45:27 GMT -5
So they claim it’s about protecting the “endangered” desert tortoise. Except there is science that indicates tortoises make more babies in grazed areas. The gist of it is, tortoises eat highly digestible and nutritious cow pies. They get all the nutrition and an excess of water too! The Cali Desert Tortoise is one of the most politicized reptiles in the world. Probably second only to the red eared slider.
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grayfingers
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Member since November 2007
Posts: 4,575
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Post by grayfingers on Apr 23, 2014 19:00:29 GMT -5
As I mentioned above. . .
"I was reading the tortoises were in reality benefited by the cows, they eat the dung itself, and the vegetation it provides nutrients for. One theory is that the cattle being there for the past century and a half may be the reason the tortoise population was highest there."
I will stop with commenting on this thread, but as the OP has opined in other posts, I also will not back down on any of these issues, especially when there is duplicity in the air.
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 23, 2014 19:20:00 GMT -5
Interesting how they charged him with theft of "government property" when federally managed lands are PUBLIC lands, managed, not owned by the federal government.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2014 19:23:48 GMT -5
As I mentioned above. . . "I was reading the tortoises were in reality benefited by the cows, they eat the dung itself, and the vegetation it provides nutrients for. One theory is that the cattle being there for the past century and a half may be the reason the tortoise population was highest there." I will stop with commenting on this thread, but as the OP has opined in other posts, I also will not back down on any of these issues, especially when there is duplicity in the air. haha! You beat me to it! Sorry for the dupe-knowledge!
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
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Post by Sabre52 on Apr 23, 2014 20:21:25 GMT -5
You know, the Desert Tortoise has been used to close off a lot of our western desert land, especially in Commiefornia. Any of you other desert rats ever look under a raven roost on the desert? BLM is always making a big deal about how us rockhounds and cattle etc seriously hurt the tortoise population but ravens absolutely slaughter baby tortoises up to about five inches or so. Often stacks of empty shells under their roosts and in most areas where water is available enough to allow ravens to venture far into the wastes, you'll never see a baby tortoise, only old ones too big for the ravens to predate. BLM always tries to blame recreational use or cattle as the closure excuse on tortoise grounds when BLM's guzzlers and other water sources have actually been the culprit by enabling ravens to expand their ranges. IMHO BLM's ultimate goal is to "prevent" access or cattle grazing on most of its lands and instead allow lefty politicians to set them aside for the greenie's votes or privatize them for the use of their business cronies and contributors as a way to gain more money and power....Mel
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owyhee
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
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Post by owyhee on Apr 23, 2014 20:49:55 GMT -5
Sabre52 I agree with everything but the lefty crap........both sides are the same. All of the land BLM has is full of minerals that they will take one day. There is no BLM on the east coast......nothing is out there! Kinda slick huh?
MJ
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halitedigger
starting to spend too much on rocks
Lost in the Mojave, Sierras or Itoigawa
Member since September 2013
Posts: 104
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Post by halitedigger on Apr 24, 2014 9:34:56 GMT -5
Short of it, if you are part of an organized group of two or more you will need to file a SRP, Special Recreation Permit, however there are several ways around this and I will explain those later. The BLM Area managers I met with, no one else was there except myself and the person who told me about it from the CMFAS, were us, rock collectors, Jeep enthusiasts, etc. They want to side with us, but no one shows up at these meetings to voice against the rules or regulations so they have to side with the environmental groups pushing these rules and regulations. I will write a full blown article sometime this week on exactly what is happening, how it will affect you and what we can do because we still have some time. Where was everyone when the WEMO(Western Mojave Plan Amendment) was going through their discovery process? The BLM manager asked that to me. I wasn't active in rock collecting then so I have an excuse, but I was the only private citizen there last night. They are on our side, totally. If you want to keep our hobby open better get to know these people and speak up. www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/cdd/west_mojave__wemo.html
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halitedigger
starting to spend too much on rocks
Lost in the Mojave, Sierras or Itoigawa
Member since September 2013
Posts: 104
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Post by halitedigger on Apr 26, 2014 15:20:13 GMT -5
Here is the next meeting: www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/info/rac/dac.htmlIf you care about our hobby go meet your BLM folks. Talk to them, get to know them. As I said, they are people just like you and me who are doing the best they can with what's given to them. The law is already on the books, Title 43 CFR, their ability to waive requirements as is stated in the code, is what is important.
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Mark K
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Post by Mark K on Apr 27, 2014 19:33:08 GMT -5
So what can those of us 1000 miles away do to help?
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