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Post by fantastic5 on Jan 21, 2015 18:48:25 GMT -5
fantastic5-is there any place you have not been ? I want you and kap and Mark to go to the Flint River sometime. We gotta have the mud boats, and the river not to high, about 3-4 miles upstream from the bridge located east on the main road out of Montezuma. The finest fossil oysters are several miles upstream from the Hwy 26(i think that's the road out of Montezuma) bridge. Also some fine death plate chert below Hwy 26 and I-75 and area surrounding. I have taken them in oyster bars in Florida and shown them to the shucker, should see his jaw drop. They are giant. And so well preserved. Jimi, and anyone else, put that one on your calendar too. Giant oysters, probably the finest preservations I have ever found of any fossil: www.flickr.com/photos/67205364@N06/sets/72157632145250570 Count me in!!!!!!!!!  |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 21, 2015 19:00:22 GMT -5
Thanks fantastic5, hated that broseph82 gunktified his vibe with iron muck. Looking at the photo of his batch of garnets and I knew what happened instantly. Forgot to tell him to rotary clean them. To add Jimi, I run the barrel 2/3 to 3/4 full with the rotary just straight garnets for cleaning. Water an inch lower than the garnets. You can throw some other junk in there if you don't have enough garnets, like quartz. Best to clean out the load every day for the first 2-3 days. I would not waste any grit, just tumble them together, they abrade each other well enough. They are little abrasive bombs, evil abraders. The place I take you guys are best collected as specimen crystals. Crappy iron garnets, but some are fine crystals. However, i want to ride around and look for higher grade garnets, even if they are smaller, if you guys are game. These roads are in the middle of nowhere, so I want to stop at the creek bridges(many are wood), and sample the creeks. They bring garnets in from many veins. And maybe we will find some clear ones. The area is steep and lots of short hills. I've been there half a dozen times and never remember where I was last, just ride till you find schist and there they are. Let me see if I can find a decent map. That place is a maze. Exploring sounds like great fun! I enjoy riding the country and forest service roads, so this would be tons of fun! My husband and I are learning to facet so having something other than quartz that I was able to self collect would be excellent. I get so much more enjoyment finding the material myself. Sounds like you guys are coming ? Let's go ! May meet in downtown Wedowee, hadn't firmed day and time. |
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Post by fantastic5 on Jan 21, 2015 19:32:49 GMT -5
jamesp - here are a few of my Little Pine finds.  Still in matrix:  After a quick polish on my genie:   Here is my son at the entrance. This was 5 years ago, I can't believe how much he has grown:  And here he is doing what all boys do best.....hulk smash  
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Post by broseph82 on Jan 21, 2015 19:53:15 GMT -5
Pics from the 2nd cleaning and 4Tbsp grit wasted   "Cleaned" and drying:  Beans and rice anyone? |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 21, 2015 22:02:05 GMT -5
Love the Hulk Smash. LOL. And a Hulk assistant, not fair. Looks like too mush fun. Those are pretty darn nice garnets you touched up fantastic5. Not sure we will find that quality, maybe a garnet dance is due. Thanks for sharing, very motivating. We got garnets in these parts. They had laid rip raf boulders to make a bridge over a finger cove at Lake Chatuge. My family and several others used to rent cabins on that cove when I was young. The boulders were soft white granite/sand stone loaded with 1/2 inch light purple garnets all crystal clear. Perfect sharp edged crystals. For the life of me can not find that place. Have looked over the years. Chatuge is garnet ridden. Wish I knew where to go. |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 21, 2015 22:04:05 GMT -5
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Post by broseph82 on Jan 21, 2015 22:36:17 GMT -5
jamesp you wish you knew where to go for garnets in general or that big boulder? Supposedly there's a quarry here that has huge Fluorite cubes in its dolomite.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 21, 2015 22:43:56 GMT -5
jamesp you wish you knew where to go for garnets in general or that big boulder? Supposedly there's a quarry here that has huge Fluorite cubes in its dolomite. The big boulders that they piled on the road shoulders were covered with fine garnets. The boulders came from a quarry somewhere. They were piled on the shoulder of the road and down to the lake to prevent erosion. Just laced with fine garnets, super high grade. Can not find that spot. Lake Chatugue has a lot of finger coves. |
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Jan 21, 2015 22:46:54 GMT -5
[quote author=" jamesp" We got garnets in these parts. They had laid rip raf boulders to make a bridge over a finger cove at Lake Chatuge. My family and several others used to rent cabins on that cove when I was young. The boulders were soft white granite/sand stone loaded with 1/2 inch light purple garnets all crystal clear. Perfect sharp edged crystals. For the life of me can not find that place. Have looked over the years. Chatuge is garnet ridden. Wish I knew where to go.[/quote] If you find those Chatuge garnets let me know -- I'm definitely interested in buying some. I'm a real garnet freak. Is Chatuge anywhere close to Cowee Creek in N.C., where "rhodolite" garnets were "discovered" and mis-named? Garnet species can form solid-solution series' that allow them to commonly mix with each other. Rhodolite is a varying mix of the almandine and pyrope species, both of which are pretty dark-toned as the chemistry nears end-member form. But for some strange reason intermediate blends of the two yield lovely light-toned red-purple gems, which sounds a lot like what you found as a kid. I say rhodolite was mis-named because the same pyrope/almandine blends had been found in India, Sri Lanka and elsewhere since before Roman times. Now garnet experts refer to pyrope-almandine and another species' blend pyrope/spessartine (mis-named Malaia Garnet) as intermediates -- they're not true species. Both rhodolite and malaia are trade-names. There are over 25 known garnet species but only 5 of them are commonly used as gems: almandine, pyrope, spessartine, grossular (yields green Tsavorite), andradite (yields the famous demantoids). Sometimes lovely rich green uvarovite druses on chromite like the image, are used as jewelry stones. Unfortunately uvarovite crystals are almost invariably too small for making faceted gems.  |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 22, 2015 6:46:14 GMT -5
Believe me Mr. Rick, if I had them I would sure offer them. My Dad was a garnet lover and used to take me and the man across the street garnet hunting. It was always in the Appalachian mountains. I remember translucent yellow/green serpentine and all kinds of schists at those sites. But that white deteriorating granite had a light purple garnet about every 4 inches, perfect crystals, and almost no fractures. What I remember so well about then was their clarity due to the light purple color. I want to find an image to show you to help me ID it. The other neighbor down the road got the fever and used to take his 3 sons garnet hunting, and they bought back exact same matrix with same perfect crystals of same light purple garnets. They broke that pile up in the back yard and extracted those garnets. Average size 3/8-1/2 inches. Yes, this area in Georgia borders Macon county of N. Carolina, where Cowee Valley is. I would say this is the color Rick, maybe a tiny bit darker. Search calling these colors umbalite garnet. What is umbalite ??  |
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Jan 22, 2015 12:17:09 GMT -5
James, garnet ID is very, very tricky. The issue is totally confused by marketers who coin garnet names that have nothing to do with the nature of the mineral. Probably the best known example of that is the name Tsavorite (Tsavolite in the U.K.) which Tiffany & Co. created to market fine green grossular garnet from Africa. Naming minerals is traditionally the province of mineralogists, not jewelry stores. But not any more! Sellers who think they have a "new" color in garnet seem quick to attach an exotic or descriptive name like Umbalite, Raspberry Rhodolite, Mandarin spessartine, etc., etc. It may help sell stones but it leaves people extremely confused about just what kind of garnet's involved. Umbalite is such a marketing name. It's attached to intermediate pyrope-almanine species found in the Umba Valley in Tanzania. Given the location of your Georgia find I feel confident it's a similar species blend. Because the species can blend in varying proportions an amazing color range results. In the case of the stones pictured I'd guess purplish almandine predominates along with a mix of reddish pyrope, maybe spessartine and probably a number of obscure garnet species like Kimzeyite and Goldmanite etc. which can be part of the mix and influence color. This material is a very special pyrope-almandine intermediate I import from India. It's very similar to the garnets in your image and is regarded as top-end material:  |
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Post by broseph82 on Jan 22, 2015 14:15:57 GMT -5
gemfeller that is a beautiful piece and an awesome shine I hope to find something pretty this weekend jamesp
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 22, 2015 15:04:48 GMT -5
James, garnet ID is very, very tricky. The issue is totally confused by marketers who coin garnet names that have nothing to do with the nature of the mineral. Probably the best known example of that is the name Tsavorite (Tsavolite in the U.K.) which Tiffany & Co. created to market fine green grossular garnet from Africa. Naming minerals is traditionally the province of mineralogists, not jewelry stores. But not any more! Sellers who think they have a "new" color in garnet seem quick to attach an exotic or descriptive name like Umbalite, Raspberry Rhodolite, Mandarin spessartine, etc., etc. It may help sell stones but it leaves people extremely confused about just what kind of garnet's involved. Umbalite is such a marketing name. It's attached to intermediate pyrope-almanine species found in the Umba Valley in Tanzania. Given the location of your Georgia find I feel confident it's a similar species blend. Because the species can blend in varying proportions an amazing color range results. In the case of the stones pictured I'd guess purplish almandine predominates along with a mix of reddish pyrope, maybe spessartine and probably a number of obscure garnet species like Kimzeyite and Goldmanite etc. which can be part of the mix and influence color. This material is a very special pyrope-almandine intermediate I import from India. It's very similar to the garnets in your image and is regarded as top-end material: That is an interesting subject. Good to hear this information from knowledgeable person. And thanks for your time. This hybridizing is a new one on me. I have a subject to study and a stone to hunt for in a beautiful setting. Will stick to the mineralogist viewpoint to research. There are garnets close to my house, with google earth I may find some of these spots easier. But facet grade is a challenge, aware of that, and a true treasure to find. The garnet was an industry here until about 40- 50 years ago. Importing stones to cut sounds exotic. Your cab has incredible color, and must be rare if it comes from so far away. Nothing like the color of gemstones and the variety has increased due to new discoveries. Will keep you posted on finds, I will be surprised if I can find anything that impresses you. LOL No harm in trying. You mentioned Cowee Valley, do you know if any high grade stones came from that area ? Are the garnets from the garnet zone in Idaho desirable ? or other garnets from the US ? |
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Jan 22, 2015 15:38:07 GMT -5
James,
Re: Cowee. Yes, many highly desirable colors came from Cowee. The name "Rhodolite" was chosen partly because the "new" garnets resembled the color of wild rhododendrons in N.C. I have no idea of the status of any mines there now, but since you're willing to go to the books to learn I recommend John Sinkankas's Vol. 1 of "Gemstones of North America." It has an excellent section on garnets from your area and even if the book is old it's a treasure trove of useful information on all American gems.
Re: Idaho garnet. Apart from the relatively small Emerald Creek star garnet area, most of the almandine from North Idaho ends up as garnet sandpaper. I remember seeing a small stream whose bottom was literally covered with purplish garnet sand. There are a few areas that yield facet-grade rough but the cut stones go very dark the larger they get. Some locations produce absolutely gorgeous stones but I've not been successful finding either the locations or the rough.
Yes, there are gemmy facetable garnets from many locations in the U.S. It's interesting that chromium -- the metal that imparts the beautiful red hue to rubies -- sometimes replaces iron in pyrope. In fact "chrome pyropes" are a strong indicator to prospectors that they may be near diamond pipes/Kimberlite. The "anthill" garnets of Arizona and Utah are chrome pyropes and they cut gorgeous bright red gems in small sizes. Again, they go dark as size increases. There are many Kimberlite pipes in the region but so far no diamonds.
The Amelia Courthouse area in Virginia has produced beautiful orange spessartine, as have some pegmatites in the Pala area near San Diego, CA. There are lots of other U.S. locations but that's a start for you. Check your library for a copy of "Garnet" by John D. Rouse, Butterworths Books ISBN 0-408-01534-0. It's an amazing garnet resource but it's out of print and copies -- if you can find them -- are very expensive.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 22, 2015 20:00:36 GMT -5
James, Re: Cowee. Yes, many highly desirable colors came from Cowee. The name "Rhodolite" was chosen partly because the "new" garnets resembled the color of wild rhododendrons in N.C. I have no idea of the status of any mines there now, but since you're willing to go to the books to learn I recommend John Sinkankas's Vol. 1 of "Gemstones of North America." It has an excellent section on garnets from your area and even if the book is old it's a treasure trove of useful information on all American gems. Re: Idaho garnet. Apart from the relatively small Emerald Creek star garnet area, most of the almandine from North Idaho ends up as garnet sandpaper. I remember seeing a small stream whose bottom was literally covered with purplish garnet sand. There are a few areas that yield facet-grade rough but the cut stones go very dark the larger they get. Some locations produce absolutely gorgeous stones but I've not been successful finding either the locations or the rough. Yes, there are gemmy facetable garnets from many locations in the U.S. It's interesting that chromium -- the metal that imparts the beautiful red hue to rubies -- sometimes replaces iron in pyrope. In fact "chrome pyropes" are a strong indicator to prospectors that they may be near diamond pipes/Kimberlite. The "anthill" garnets of Arizona and Utah are chrome pyropes and they cut gorgeous bright red gems in small sizes. Again, they go dark as size increases. There are many Kimberlite pipes in the region but so far no diamonds. The Amelia Courthouse area in Virginia has produced beautiful orange spessartine, as have some pegmatites in the Pala area near San Diego, CA. There are lots of other U.S. locations but that's a start for you. Check your library for a copy of "Garnet" by John D. Rouse, Butterworths Books ISBN 0-408-01534-0. It's an amazing garnet resource but it's out of print and copies -- if you can find them -- are very expensive. Thanks a bunch Rick. You set me on my way. Need to figure the garnet out. You have given me plenty of avenues. How long have you been working gems ? And did you get started on garnets ? Saw the blood red Ant Hills, they do look like rubies, so rich in color. I had seen photos of Emerald Valley sands, wow, what a color it has. i knew that the States have a lot of garnet occurrences. It is common in low grade form. The Sinkankas book sounds like a great start. I have old gem trail books that have a lot of old sites. Man they can be a challenge to find though. I will collect some from a spot close by. Maybe I can send them to you to ID. Or do you have to do a complicated chemical analysis ? The only use I have for them is for tumbling. So if i fine some facet grade, expect some to come your way  |
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Jan 23, 2015 15:24:50 GMT -5
James, I'll be happy to answer as many of your questions as I can but now is not the time. I'm in the midst of a family medical crisis that may take up most of my time for the next few weeks. Garnet ID can be tricky, as I said, and standard gemological methods aren't always easy for various reasons. They often require advanced and expensive lab procedures. But there's a new and pretty reliable way of using color, R.I. and the spectroscope to narrow things down. When the time is right I'll be happy to take a look at any samples you send.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 23, 2015 16:49:35 GMT -5
James, I'll be happy to answer as many of your questions as I can but now is not the time. I'm in the midst of a family medical crisis that may take up most of my time for the next few weeks. Garnet ID can be tricky, as I said, and standard gemological methods aren't always easy for various reasons. They often require advanced and expensive lab procedures. But there's a new and pretty reliable way of using color, R.I. and the spectroscope to narrow things down. When the time is right I'll be happy to take a look at any samples you send. Sorry Rick. Hope all woks out well. Thanks for considering doing that favor. Let me know when the issues settle down and you are able. Enough issues in life w/out medical bombs. |
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Post by gingerkid on Jan 23, 2015 18:01:19 GMT -5
broseph82, your garnet tumbles look like they are coming along well! My apologies for inviting myself, but hope you guys and gals have a great time looking for garnets!! I hope that you will all post lots of pics for us to admire (and garnets, of course). fantastic5, what faceting machine are you and your husband learning to facet? What gems have you faceted? I would love to learn one day. jamesp, you posted Lots of directions to garnet spots in the Garnet Mineral Collection thread. Rick has written articles about garnets! Here's some info on garnets from the Gemology Project: I like Dr. Hanneman's Classification of Garnets. gemologyproject.com/wiki/index.php?title=Garnet Will be thinking about you and your family, gemfeller. Have been wondering why you have not been participating on the forum.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 23, 2015 19:37:31 GMT -5
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Post by 1dave on Jan 23, 2015 21:18:04 GMT -5
So you keep saying, then leave us all in the dust! |
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