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Post by gingerkid on Jul 10, 2015 9:26:50 GMT -5
Just got a Special Report news break of them taking the Confederate flag down in SC. Flag is still on pole.
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chassroc
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Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
Posts: 3,586
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Post by chassroc on Jul 10, 2015 10:00:32 GMT -5
NORTHERNERS HAD SLAVES so they certainly didn't go to war over something that many of them were doing themselves. What aren't you following here? The war was not about slavery. edit fer spellinRevisionist history Bob... Slavery had long been abolished in the North. Lincoln ran on a policy of no NEW slave states in 1860. The war was very clearly about the right to pick and choose what laws a state wanted to follow and the right to continue to enslave other human beings
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spiritstone
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Member since August 2014
Posts: 2,061
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Post by spiritstone on Jul 10, 2015 10:10:01 GMT -5
I'm not sure? Any of these countries ever change there flag due to slavery? By the way I have always liked that flag. Just thought it looked cool. Never gave me an inclination towards the thoughts of violence. Here's some information on the Confederate flag, spiritstone. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_AmericaWhile looking up info to share with you about the flag, I checked out the Great Seal of the Confederate States of America. I thought, hmm, I've seen that image before, and sure 'nuf, I have 2 trivets of it that belonged to my grandmother. Here's some photos I took of the pair of trivets with a trivet of a dogwood that also belonged to her. trivet of the Great Seal of the Confederate States of America back of trivet "The seal prominently features George Washington on horseback, in the same position as the 1858 Virginia Washington Monument, located adjacent to the Confederate Capitol in Richmond, Virginia. Washington is pictured in his uniform of the Revolution securing American independence. Washington was a model for the Confederacy due to his importance in founding a new nation. He was a model in personal character, a military leader for independence, a new nation's political leader, and, not unimportantly for the Confederacy, a slaveholder. Washington is surrounded with a wreath, which is made of some of the main agricultural products of the Confederate States: wheat, corn, tobacco, cotton, rice and sugar cane. The top margin of the seal features the words "The Confederate States of America: 22 February 1862". This date on the seal commemorates the establishment of the Government of the Confederate States of America in Richmond, Virginia with the inauguration of Jefferson Davis after the only Confederate general election, and is also Washington's birthday. The bottom margin contains the national motto, Deo Vindice (variously translated as "Under God, [Our] Vindicator", "With God as [Our] Champion", "With God as [Our] Judge", and "Under the Guidance and Protection of God"). The Confederate Senator Thomas Semmes, in proposing this motto, took pains to stress that the CSA had "deviated in the most emphatic manner from the spirit that presided over the construction of the Constitution of the United States, which is silent on the subject of the Deity." Source: wikipedia The Great Seal of the Confederate States of America Photo: wikipedia Rick and I were watching ABC World News Now this morning and the reporters were talking about how the White Supremacy flag would be removed from the capitol grounds in SC. We looked at each other and said what? to the comment about calling the Confederate flag a White Supremacy flag. jamesp, on WSB-TV Atlanta this morning, they discussed the Confederate flag will come down at the state capitol in SC. Then they mentioned there is a push to have the flag removed from Stone Mountain. Georgia state representative, LeDawn Jones, and she said her office has been flooded with e-mails and messages (some were threatening) with a push to move the Confederate flag from state property. She said this is a conversation Georgia needs to have, and now is the time to have it. The news reporter commented that the Sons of the Confederate Veterans said it was established as a memorial and should remain there. Just realized that Ben Jones that starred as Cooter in the "Dukes of Hazzard," and prior GA congressman, is the Sons of the Confederate Veterans spokesperson. Anyone notice that there has not been any mention of the Black Confederate troops that served? blackconfederates.blogspot.com/ETA: Just heard that the KKK was fighting to adopt a highway in Georgia. Oh Hell No! www.cnn.com/2015/07/09/us/kkk-highway-court-georgia/They are beautiful. Lucky you to have this handed down. I bet they are very special. Ever here of the Hundredth monkey effect? I think its a virus and spreading like wildfire. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundredth_monkey_effect
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Post by captbob on Jul 10, 2015 10:40:34 GMT -5
Revisionist history Bob... Slavery had long been abolished in the North. Lincoln ran on a policy of no NEW slave states in 1860. The war was very clearly about the right to pick and choose what laws a state wanted to follow and the right to continue to enslave other human beings As opposed to Denial History? Grant owned a slave as little as two years before the Civil War started. The Sherman family owned slaves until AFTER the war was over. They sure as hell weren't fighting over the slavery issue. Using your text: "The war was very clearly about the right to pick and choose what laws a state wanted to follow..." so... you are saying was about States Rights after all? Like the right to secede? We are still fighting that war today, just different battles. Many States don't want homos getting married, yet the .gov believes they have the power to override the will of individual States. Many States want nothing to do with obamacare. Looks like the Progs. have won a couple here, but whoo buddy the tide can turn in a quickness when people are pushed too far. Can't wait for that party to get started. I even picked out a flag to carry. Go ahead and be a good little obamabot and keep erasing history as if fits your needs. You looking for restitution next?
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Post by mohs on Jul 10, 2015 11:37:21 GMT -5
Well that certainly is the rock core issue Right from the founding. A certain percentage, probably the majority, didn’t want a strong central Union. Those folks were leery of a centralized government and justifiable so…mostly And it seems that gap can never be bridged. Even through a bloody war.
That tension may be what keeps the United States muddling through it many differences.
Ed
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Post by captbob on Jul 10, 2015 11:40:34 GMT -5
I'd be interested in hearing how you can back that statement. One's life may be full of commitments and responsibilities, either legal or self-imposed. Restrictions on your freedom may even exist due to specific obligations or circumstances, which are usually of your own choosing. But to equate it to slavery is a bit of a stretch.
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Post by mohs on Jul 10, 2015 12:39:53 GMT -5
a philosophical discussion would be a pleasant break lets have some tunes while
we gather our notes
mostly™
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Post by captbob on Jul 10, 2015 16:15:40 GMT -5
LOL That's dang funny right there.
So... you're b*tching about being born?
no pleasing some people!
"Having to watch your friends and family grow old and sick is painful."
True, but unfortunately, that's part of life. Not an aspect of slavery.
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Post by mohs on Jul 10, 2015 17:26:01 GMT -5
to examine the statement in a philosophical sense we can take a couple different approaches
the school of logical positivism would require a definitions of the words to determine if the statement as any meaning
or we could take an ontological existentialist approach and determine what the statement means to the individual
or we could take a Socratic dialectic approach in which Socrates consider himself midwife as he helps deliver the interlocutors inborn truth
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Post by mohs on Jul 10, 2015 17:28:41 GMT -5
I agree that the statement contains no bitching about being born nor does your supporting statements but make no mistake about it life is a bitch
mostly
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
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Post by Sabre52 on Jul 10, 2015 19:01:59 GMT -5
*LOL* Guess we can safely say that amygdule is a "glass half empty" kind of person. True, we all begin to die as soon as we come kicking and screaming into the world but Hell, the living part is a terrific ride. Just relax and enjoy the tour. It's brief enough without bitching and whining about it *L*. I would submit that there is no slavery or involuntary servitude. One can always fight against slavery if one is willing to accept the risks of doing so and as Bob has said, choosing your direction and accepting responsibility for your own life and those of your offspring etc is not involuntary servitude. It's just honorable commitment to your life path.
*L* And maybe in he old days, folks had big families so they could get free labor. Now days, a lot of folks have big families so they can get more government freebies paid for by the folks in society who are productive....Mel
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gemfeller
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Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,023
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Post by gemfeller on Jul 10, 2015 19:31:46 GMT -5
I agree that the statement contains no bitching about being born nor does your supporting statements but make no mistake about it life is a bitch mostly Since we're getting philosophical I'm reminded of a joke -- maybe I already told it to you. Oh well. The philosopher Rene Descartes stopped by a bistro for a beer after a hard day of cogitation at the office. He downed the beer and the barkeep asked "Would you like another Sir?" Descartes paused a moment then said "I think not." And poof! He vanished in a cloud of smoke, never to be seen again.
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Post by johnjsgems on Jul 10, 2015 20:08:53 GMT -5
I saw this post before any replies but didn't have time to post. Wow! 13 pages? I'm too lazy to read it all but here's my two cents. I've traveled a little through the South and seen many confederate memorials. I always thought the Confederate battle flag was an historical item and a sign of Southern pride. When I heard SC governor talking about removing the flag from the Confederate memorial on the capitol grounds I thought it was political correctness gone wild. The flag didn't shoot anyone in a church. I thought it was as bad as the president blaming the gun and turning the reverend's eulogy into a gun control speech. Just this week I learned (Fox News) that the flag was not flown until the 60's on the capitol dome as a protest against forced desegregation. About 15 years ago the flag was moved to the grounds by the memorial. So, I think I was wrong. The flag was used to promote racial animosity not as a memorial to some of the most valorous soldiers of all time. That flag should be removed. If (that particular flag)is put in a museum it should be labelled for what it is. A symbol of the struggle for segregation and racial hatred.
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Post by adam on Jul 10, 2015 20:47:46 GMT -5
Flaunt your stickers, captbob! Looking great. lol I say the flag stays because how can you get away with banning a flag?
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Post by mohs on Jul 10, 2015 20:56:28 GMT -5
The philosopher Rene Descartes stopped by a bistro for a beer after a hard day of cogitation at the office. He downed the beer and the barkeep asked "Would you like another Sir?" Descartes paused a moment then said "I think not." And poof! He vanished in a cloud of smoke, never to be seen again. a hard day of cognation at the office as caused more than few folks to imbibe extensively mostly™
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Post by mohs on Jul 10, 2015 22:00:29 GMT -5
it depends on how think about the United States of America are we united ? certainly not and no one idea will ever unite it. Because the founding was in error.
can this be a land where people can be relatively free ? probably but the forecast is that it will divide which side to choose? because that will be Civil War 2
happy prognostication July 10 2015 7:33 p.m MST
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Post by captbob on Jul 10, 2015 22:20:13 GMT -5
Because the founding was in error. ?Care to expound on that or was it just thrown in because it sounded good in your free range prose?
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Post by captbob on Jul 10, 2015 22:24:06 GMT -5
Loved your joke gemfeller! Can't believe I've never heard that, but I'm sure going to be passing it on.
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Post by mohs on Jul 10, 2015 23:07:50 GMT -5
what I mean by error is the founding or oath to the Constitution was flawed. Many states that took an oath to that Constitution did so under protest. They did not want to be part of a Union with a strong central government. The Federalist vs the anti- federalist. State rights trumps the feds.
So the problem becomes whenever we try to address any problems, all parties clamor to be faithful to the Constitution. But if that beginning was flawed from the get go how can you ever bridge that gap?
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Post by captbob on Jul 11, 2015 1:26:02 GMT -5
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