bushmanbilly
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Post by bushmanbilly on Aug 1, 2015 15:06:32 GMT -5
Nobody knows if he was shot illegally. The results from the investigation are not released yet. Kinda like the Freddy Gray case. Both these cases have been tried and convicted by the left and environuts. If he did do the crime. Then yes he should do the time. But if he is legit. I hope he sues every left wing media outlet into bankruptcy.
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Post by gingerkid on Aug 1, 2015 15:20:02 GMT -5
Billy, here's what I found on the park's website, and Oxford University. It sounds to me that the parties involved are pretty much busted. The land owner and the professional hunter are out on bond and will appear in court next week. Oxford University: (There's also something called the Cecil Appeal that I have not read up on) August 1, 2015 with information concerning Jericho caring for cubs wildcru.org/news/macdonald-update010815/From the park: with violations listed www.zimparks.org/index.php/mc/214-press-statement-on-the-illegal-hunt-of-a-collared-lion-at-antoinette-farm-in-gwayi-conservancy-hwange-district-on-1-july-2015-by-bushman-safaris-professional-hunter-theo-bronkhorstThe Environment Minister of Zimbabwe wants the dentist extradited. www.nytimes.com/2015/08/01/world/africa/zimbabwe-cecil-lion-walter-palmer.htmlETA: From the Oxford University research website, comments by David MacDonald. "I feel that this global response is truly unique, and as such sends a signal that transcends the sad death of one lion and trumpets, inspirationally, hope not only for the conservation of lions in Africa but of wildlife worldwide. The future of wildlife hinges on it being valued. As I have repeated on countless interviews in recent days, modern conservation is as much about people and their well-being as it is about wildlife and its well-being: it is about finding evidence-based solutions that enable humanity to live alongside the nature which it treasures and on which it may depend - everybody is a stake-holder in the environment, so it is right that everybody should care about it: it is a wonderful memorial for Cecil if worldwide people are saying, loudly, that they do care."
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Post by rockjunquie on Aug 1, 2015 15:21:26 GMT -5
Nobody knows if he was shot illegally. The results from the investigation are not released yet. Kinda like the Freddy Gray case. Both these cases have been tried and convicted by the left and environuts. If he did do the crime. Then yes he should do the time. But if he is legit. I hope he sues every left wing media outlet into bankruptcy. What I have read, and who knows if it is true or not, is that a carcass was strapped to a car and driven away from the preserve enticing the lion along with it. It would seem that the dentist would have known that was happening and it seems it would clearly be illegal. I believe (which means exactly nothing) that when it is all said and done, everyone involved will have some culpability. I don't think the dentist devised the plan, but he went along with it. And yes, if he is innocent, he should sue. edit I was writing as gingerkid posted.
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Post by gingerkid on Aug 1, 2015 15:44:46 GMT -5
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bushmanbilly
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Post by bushmanbilly on Aug 1, 2015 17:23:25 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 21:08:48 GMT -5
Everyone is so worried about the heartbeat of a single organism, they fail to consider how this one act of hunting effects the ecosystem as a whole.
Kenya banned hunting and have about 40% of the game they had before legal hunting was banned. Zimbabwe got it right. Despite the other epic problems within that nation, the wildlife is thriving at record numbers and white hunters (European and North American) are spending prodigious amounts of Capitol in the region. The money AND THE MEAT is used locally. The villagers get it and become accidental game wardens. They would never poach knowing the animals are more valuable to visitors than themselves. They even keep an eye on animals near their abode. Whether Cecil should or should not have been hunted, the hunter did spend his permit fee, the land owner and professional hunter also taking their fair share. No doubt this hunter also killed other animals too. The hunter gets a steak and the locals eat the rest, including organ meats.
Make any judgement you want. Your opinion is likely based on insufficient knowledge. As is mine. And I know the hunting story in Zimbabwe pretty well. But nothing beyond that.
No matter what you cannot change the fact that hunters spend more money on conservation than all other entities combined.
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Post by nowyo on Aug 1, 2015 23:11:51 GMT -5
Haven't read the whole thread and not going to bother, just pulled up this last page. Most excellent post, Scott, thank you. If it weren't for hunters there would be no game left in Africa, and not much in North America, either.
russ
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Post by Rockoonz on Aug 2, 2015 0:06:47 GMT -5
As Scott so eloquently stated, when we're allowed to be the omnivores we were intended to be and eat meat we do a pretty good job of managing our food supply. When psycho meat is murder types are given more attention than the nervous smile and nod we offer our crazy uncle when he goes off on a rant, things go bat$#!+ crazy. Speaking of funny and marginally appropriate rants...
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Post by Rockoonz on Aug 2, 2015 0:14:34 GMT -5
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Post by gingerkid on Aug 2, 2015 2:00:18 GMT -5
Very true, @shotgunner.
In my opinion, no one was ranting or arguing (ETA: or being disrespectful to each other) in Billy's thread. I thought it was an interesting discussion. My apologies if I came across as ranting, which was not my intention.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 18:24:24 GMT -5
Very true, @shotgunner. In my opinion, no one was ranting or arguing (ETA: or being disrespectful to each other) in Billy's thread. I thought it was an interesting discussion. My apologies if I came across as ranting, which was not my intention. Not at all Jan. not at all. I have been bombarded by all media spouting their uninformed opinions as if fact. Drives me batty.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 21:04:49 GMT -5
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Post by gingerkid on Aug 3, 2015 19:05:57 GMT -5
@shotgunner, lots of great articles within the link you posted, and are a few of the reasons Rick and myself support the NRA - hunters and Constitutional rights. Hunters are the biggest supporters of conservation and also help reduce population of species that do not have any natural enemies in certain areas (bear, wolves, coyotes, big cats, deer...). Overpopulation may also lead to disease and death in species, then bigger problems. I grew up in a farming community in south Georgia where hunting is the 'norm' when hunting season rolls around (dove, deer, quail, duck, turkey...). Bobwhite quail populations have dwindled, and I believe the cause may be pesticides. The county I am from also hosts the annual rattlesnake roundup in Whigham, Georgia that has been discussed on the forum. Both sides of my family enjoy hunting - mainly the menfolks. I was around 12 years old at my first hunting experience. My stepdad took my brother, 2 stepbrothers, and myself dove hunting in an open field on his land. I had a pellet gun . To be honest, I don't have the heart to kill an animal, but if I had to do it to survive, no problem. The first time my brother and his best friend killed a few squirrels, my mother instructed them to clean and eat them. She was very clear to my brother that if he was going to kill animals, he would be responsible in cleaning and eating them. My brother still hunts, but he doesn't really care to squirrel hunt any longer, lol. One of my favorites is fried dove with rice. mmmgood! Rick has a Hoyt Easton Pro Hunter bow that he used to kill deer mainly, but also killed turkey, rabbit, and a hog. He has not been bow hunting, or hunting for that matter, in a very long time. Both of us have carry permits, plenty of fire power between the two of us (I own 4 guns), and support hunters and gun rights. Neither of us believe it is 'right' to kill an animal, cut off it's head for mounting, skin it and leave the carcass. (ETA: I don't think caged hunts are 'fair' game either - just my opinion and not trying to push it on anyone) Instead of hunting these days, Rick enjoys reloading, shooting paper targets, fly tying, fishing and kayaking. If he becomes interested in hunting again, I'm sure I'll be wearing cammo out in the field with him carrying a rifle. Heard on Atlanta news this afternoon that a petition was signed and Delta airlines has agreed to stop transporting trophy hunt kills. www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/delta-bans-shipment-of-exotic-animal-trophies/nnCC9/ Then heard on the news about an African Gaboon viper running at large in Milledgeville, Georgia. Many believe it is a hoax, and someone claims to have taken a photo of it with their cell phone. www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/dnr-searching-gaboon-viper-milledgeville/nnCFk/
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 23:58:38 GMT -5
Nice Jan.
Fwiw, eating any meat from the store is the moral equivalent of killing it yourself. Not getting your hands Dirty does not absolve you from the organism's death. Fact is, it's just as dead and the consumer benefitted from that death is just as responsible as me, shotgun in the field.
Personally I prefer to do it myself. Then I know it was done as well as possible. And also can learn from and personally own the mistakes.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Aug 4, 2015 7:41:17 GMT -5
Rhinos cheetahs lions tigers and a bunch of others have dwindling gene pools. Is there a good reason for killing any of these animals ? All for hunting, but just questioning hunting these species. They need big habitat, believe it is disappearing. Perhaps that is the problem. Local game warden told me to kill every deer I see. Night lights, whatever. Overpopulation is killing them. Warden's duty is also killing them at night with lights. A duty that takes him away from his family. He tells all the farmers around here to kill all they see, because we can do it legally by permit. Permit requirements is to leave them laying, or move them back into the woods, or donate the meat to children's homes. To prevent creating a deer meat black market by permit holders.
Trophy hunters and most all whitetail hunters will get angry if you kill young bucks state wide. Amazing the group effort on chastising people that kill young bucks. This a constructive attitude. If you want meat, kill the does. They represent the bulk of the population. Genetically defective bucks like spikes also fair game. Nice to have trophy bucks in the woods, nothing irresponsible about that.
To kill a Bobcat makes no sense to me. They are not common and have little value other than a pelt. A needed native animal in the food chain that is far from being over populated. Killing a lion, not me. I will let the trophy hunters go there. I personally would never do it. Us hunters have guns, easy to kill an animal w/such a tool. Nothing macho, and not impressive to kill an animal with a gun or modern bow. In my eyes, a cowardly act. Stand in hiding and pop a cap in an unaware animal. So what, animal had no chance in Hell.
The only merit in killing a trophy white tail buck would be seeing him in the first place. That anyone could hide and place himself strategically enough to see one. That is a very secretive animal. Mostly nocturnal. Hats off if you ever get a shot at one. Bragging rights substantial. Again, an attitude thing. Not much different than a trophy hunter's attitude other than bucks out smart most hunters and are not in much danger of being over hunted by legal methods.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Aug 4, 2015 12:49:59 GMT -5
Once owned this property. Bought it as an investment and sold it. was taking photos of it last week for a potential film site. The whole 40 acres flood excepting 5 acres. Was getting ready to sight my 270 in years ago when I saw 4 does way down the gas line easement. Popped 3 of them sitting on my butt. Longest shots I ever made, google earthed at 320 yards. See fence, deer were just in front of it: Shot made from here, up high on ridge:
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Post by rockpickerforever on Aug 4, 2015 14:47:53 GMT -5
Nice shootin'! So where's the beef venison? Jerky? Andouille sausages?
The deer are not eating acorns yet are they? So the meat is not bitter? I guess you said you had to donate the meat, to prevent creating a black market for venison. Some lucky kids gonna be eating venison. I can't help but remember your dogs helping watching while you made venison jerky, lol. Too funny, bunch of vultures. Too bad they have to miss out on that.
CA has strict rules about not selling game harvested on permits. Probably the number one reason I've never had venison - don't know anybody around these parts that hunts deer. Not even supposed to sell fish legally caught (unless you have a commercial permit). BUT, a friend of mine recently shot a boar (don't know where), and made some different types of incredible edibles. I'll be trading him some hot chili powder from my home grown chilies! A trade made in gustatory heaven. Next stop, a food orgasm!
Ah, c'mon, y'all have had one of those before, right?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 18:06:54 GMT -5
The finest trophies are elderly males of most species. Any species will always have too many males. Taking out an old one that has already spread his genes in the population will not harm the species in the least. In Namibia they hunt a small number of black rhinos and a few nations do elephants. The government biologist responsible for the species decides how many and sometimes which specimens may be hunted. Biology aside, the tags go to the highest bidder in many cases. That money benefits the species as a whole. This financing reSearch, game wardens and other axial services that in the long haul benefit the species. jamesp you too are confounding species with specimen. When a few specimen are taken the species is not effected. Money helps protect.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 18:08:02 GMT -5
Yeah, what Jean said, good shooting.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Aug 4, 2015 20:22:00 GMT -5
The finest trophies are elderly males of most species. Any species will always have too many males. Taking out an old one that has already spread his genes in the population will not harm the species in the least. In Namibia they hunt a small number of black rhinos and a few nations do elephants. The government biologist responsible for the species decides how many and sometimes which specimens may be hunted. Biology aside, the tags go to the highest bidder in many cases. That money benefits the species as a whole. This financing reSearch, game wardens and other axial services that in the long haul benefit the species. jamesp you too are confounding species with specimen. When a few specimen are taken the species is not effected. Money helps protect. Makes perfect sense. Genetic management and money. I was curious how the hunting was justified. They bought Virgina and Wisconson deer to Georgia to help broaden the gene pool when the deer herd was almost wiped out decades ago. White tail of N. America: O. v. acapulcensis – Acapulco white-tailed deer (southern Mexico) O. v. borealis – northern (woodland) white-tailed deer (the largest and darkest white-tailed deer) O. v. carminis – Carmen Mountains Jorge deer (Texas-Mexico border) O. v. clavium – Key deer or Florida Keys white-tailed deer (found in the Florida Keys an example of insular dwarfism) O. v. couesi – Coues white-tailed deer, Arizona white-tailed deer, or fantail deer O. v. dakotensis – Dakota white-tailed deer or Northern Plains white-tailed deer (most northerly distribution, rivals the northern white-tailed deer in size) O. v. hiltonensis – Hilton Head Island white-tailed deer O. v. idahoensis – white-tailed deer (western Canada, Idaho, eastern Washington)[8] O. v. leucurus – Columbian white-tailed deer (Oregon and western coastal area) O. v. macrourus – Kansas white-tailed deer O. v. mcilhennyi – Avery Island white-tailed deer O. v. mexicanus – Mexican white-tailed deer (central Mexico) O. v. miquihuanensis – Miquihuan white-tailed deer (central Mexico) O. v. nelsoni – Chiapas white-tailed deer (southern Mexico and Guatemala) O. v. nemoralis – (Central America, round the Gulf of Mexico to Surinam further restricted to from Honduras to Panama) O. v. nigribarbis – Blackbeard Island white-tailed deer O. v. oaxacensis – Oaxaca white-tailed deer (southern Mexico) O. v. ochrourus – (tawny) northwest white-tailed deer or northern Rocky Mountains white-tailed deer O. v. osceola – Florida coastal white-tailed deer O. v. seminolus – Florida white-tailed deer O. v. sinaloae – Sinaloa white-tailed deer (mid-western Mexico) O. v. taurinsulae – Bulls Island white-tailed deer (Bulls Island, South Carolina) O. v. texanus – Texas white-tailed deer O. v. thomasi – Mexican lowland white-tailed deer O. v. toltecus – Rain Forest white-tailed deer (southern Mexico) O. v. venatorius – Hunting Island white-tailed deer (Hunting Island, South Carolina) O. v. veraecrucis – northern Vera Cruz white-tailed deer O. v. virginianus – Virginia white-tailed deer or southern white-tailed deer O. v. yucatanensis – Yucatán white-tailed deer
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