Having an ad battle on Craig's list

jamesp
Cave Dweller

Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,612

Having an ad battle on Craig's list Nov 3, 2015 7:46:17 GMT -5 Fossilman, snuffy, and 4 more like this

Quote

Post by jamesp on Nov 3, 2015 7:46:17 GMT -5

You guys selling on Craig's list should check this treachery out.

Notice the guy selling burn barrels for $10-$15-$25 from Woodstock about a dozen ads in per day for his product.
Dominating the 'fire pit' category with multiple listings of the same product.

You can see he has pushed my three Oct. 31 listings ' Fire pit 24,30,36,42,48.......' way down to the bottom of this page.
I have three listings for three categories-farm, general for sale and household. Fair enough.

Perhaps his practice is not breaking any Craig's List policies-and that is OK.

What if, he listed his same product 200 times per day, seems as if that would put a kink in fair and equal advertising.
Ha, I guess anything is fair in Love and War. Bet Craig's List does not know this is going on.

Me and this guy have been fighting this war for 3 years. Probably could file a complaint w/Craig's List and win.

I think this guy filed a complaint on me for taking a photo a dog sitting in a fire pit. Cruelty to animals !!
Craig's List put me on probation and shut me done for a while,LOL.
Offending photo:

I think I need to drive up to Woodstock and open a can a whoop ass LOL.

I also get semi-obnoxious anonymous Craig's List messages saying my fire pits are to expensive, betcha it is my Woodstock friend.

Nov 2 METAL 55 GALLON FIRE DRUM DRUMS BURN BARREL BARRELS PIT PITS FIREPIT $10 (Woodstock) pic [×]

Nov 2 FIRE BOWL BOWLS CAN CANS PIT PITS BARREL BARRELS DRUM DRUMS $15 (Woodstock) pic [×]

Nov 2 STEEL BURN BARREL BARRELS METAL BURNING DRUM DRUMS FIRE CAN PIT PITS $10 (Woodstock) pic [×]

Nov 2 BURN BARREL BARRELS 40 AIR SUPPLY HOLES STEEL METAL FIRE PIT PITS BURN $25 (Woodstock) pic [×]

Nov 2 METAL BURN BARREL BARRELS STEEL BURNING DRUM DRUMS 55 GALLON FIRE PIT $10 (WOODSTOCK) pic [×]

Nov 2 METAL FIREPIT FIREPITS FIRE PIT PITS FIRE-PIT FIRE-PITS $15 (Woodstock) pic [×]

Nov 2 FIREPIT FIREPITS FIRE PIT PITS FIRE-PIT FIRE-PITS $15 (Woodstock) pic [×]

Nov 2 Stone Fire Pit & Bench Seating for 12 $200 (Tyrone Rd) pic [×]

Nov 2 BURNING BARRELS BURN BARREL FIRE DRUM DRUMS PIT PITS CAN CANS METAL $10 (Woodstock) pic [×]

Nov 2 Quadripod 26 in. Round Fire Pit $65 (Atlanta) pic [×]

Nov 2 SLICED-in-HALF BURN BARREL BARRELS steel metal iron FIREPIT fire pit $15 (Woodstock) pic [×]

Nov 2 BURN FIRE PIT FIRE-PIT BURNING DRUM DRUMS BARREL BARRELS METAL STEEL $10 (Woodstock) pic [×]

Nov 2 $10 Chimnea Chimanea Chimenea Chiminea Chimonea Chimunea Fire Pit Pits $10 (Woodstock Georgia) pic [×]

Nov 2 Granite Stone Round Fire Pit $375 (Monroe) pic [×]

Oct 28 BRAND NEW FIRE PIT! $350 (Marietta) pic [×]

Nov 1 METAL BURN BARREL BARRELS DRUM DRUMS 55 GALLON FIRE CAN PIT PITS $10 (Woodstock) pic [×]

Nov 1 Propane Fire Pit LP by RealFlame 3'x3' concrete with lid $450 OBO $450 (Cumming-South Forsyth) pic map [×]

Nov 1 Georgia burn barrel barrels firepit fire pits firepits fire pit $10 (Woodstock) pic [×]

Nov 1 BURN BARREL 55 gallon metal steel fire pit pits BURNING BARRELS drum $10 (Woodstock) pic [×]

Nov 1 FIRE PIT STEEL HALF BURNING BARREL BURN BARRELS METAL PITS $15 (Woodstock) pic [×]

Nov 1 BURN BARREL BARRELS METAL STEEL FIRE PIT PITS DRUM DRUMS TIN CAN CANS $10 (Woodstock) pic [×]

Nov 1 FIRE DRUM DRUMS BURN BARREL BARRELS BURNING CAN CANS PIT PITS $10 (Woodstock) pic [×]

Oct 31 Luxury Outdoor Fire Pit $1500 (Johns Creek) pic map [×]

Oct 31 METAL BARREL BARRELS FIRE PIT PITS BURN BURNING 55 GALLON STORAGE $10 (Woodstock) pic [×]

Oct 31 METAL FIRE PIT FIREPIT FIRE-PIT STEEL BURN BURNING LEAVES $10 (Woodstock) pic [×]

Oct 31 BURN BARREL // METAL STEEL // BURNING BARRELS / FIRE PIT PITS BOWL CAN $10 (WOODSTOCK) pic [×]

Oct 31 55 GALLON FIRE PIT PITS STEEL METAL BURN BARREL BARRELS DRUM DRUMS $10 (WOODSTOCK) pic [×]

Oct 31 Fire pit 24,30,36,42,48 inch fire pits starting at - $170 (Fairburn/South Atlanta) pic map [×]

Oct 31 Fire pit 24,30,36,42,48 inch fire pits starting at $170 (Fairburn/South Atlanta) pic map [×]

Oct 31 Fire pit 24,30,36,42,48 inch fire pits starting at $170 (Fairburn/South Atlanta) pic map [×]

kk has started giving rock gifts What a precious privilege it is to be alive- to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love. Member since October 2011 Posts: 3,223	Having an ad battle on Craig's list Nov 3, 2015 8:35:11 GMT -5 Fossilman, jamesp, and 2 more like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by kk on Nov 3, 2015 8:35:11 GMT -5 Does the dog come with the pit?
	Anything that is not given, is lost! And once you realize there is nothing lacking - the whole world belongs to you ~ Lao Tzu Introduction to my undertakings in this hobby: brilliantchallenge.webs.com/

spiritstone Cave Dweller Member since August 2014 Posts: 2,061	Having an ad battle on Craig's list Nov 3, 2015 8:36:02 GMT -5 Fossilman, jamesp, and 1 more like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by spiritstone on Nov 3, 2015 8:36:02 GMT -5 LMAO
	because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know.

Drummond Island Rocks
no longer being taken for granite

Member since October 2011
Posts: 8,913

Having an ad battle on Craig's list Nov 3, 2015 9:25:59 GMT -5 jamesp likes this

Quote

Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Nov 3, 2015 9:25:59 GMT -5

Have a similar situation here. I used to do a daily search just typing in my cities name to see what was posted locally each day but now every day the first couple pages are just this store spamming with hundreds of ads.

Notice I searched "sterling heights" not TIRES.

They also tag every possible tire size in each and every ad so if anyone types a tire size into there search 200 of these ads take over all the listings

Chuck

www.instagram.com/drummondislandrocks/

www.facebook.com/Drummond-Island-Rocks-302839849816115/

www.etsy.com/shop/DrummondIslandRocks

captbob
no longer being taken for granite

St. Pete FL

Member since December 2007
Posts: 8,186

Having an ad battle on Craig's list Nov 3, 2015 9:35:28 GMT -5 jamesp likes this

Quote

Post by captbob on Nov 3, 2015 9:35:28 GMT -5

Just so everyone else doesn't have to find it -

atlanta.craigslist.org/search/sss?sort=rel&query=fire%20pit

naught for naught, but I like the handles idea on this one: (providing they don't break off)

atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/for/5289129468.html

fire pits must be moved. handles handy.

Dogs are unlimited lines of joyful credit with a payment that comes due all at once.

captbob
no longer being taken for granite

St. Pete FL

Member since December 2007
Posts: 8,186

Having an ad battle on Craig's list Nov 3, 2015 9:48:35 GMT -5 jamesp and snowmom like this

Quote

Post by captbob on Nov 3, 2015 9:48:35 GMT -5

After looking over the Atlanta area craigslist, I would recommend that you continue to do what you seem to be doing now.

Relist every 3 or 4 days and leave it go at that. Relisting daily only pisses people off - at least it does me when I'm scrolling craigslist.

Your fire pits are in a whole different class from what barrel boy is selling. I seriously doubt that his seemingly endless barrel supply is drawing from your customer base.

Downside is you have to relist every few days to keep your listings reasonably towards the top.
I see no other solution.

Dogs are unlimited lines of joyful credit with a payment that comes due all at once.

oregon
has rocks in the head

gem lap trim saw

Member since August 2015
Posts: 669

Having an ad battle on Craig's list Nov 3, 2015 11:17:15 GMT -5 captbob and jamesp like this

Quote

Post by oregon on Nov 3, 2015 11:17:15 GMT -5

Nov 3, 2015 9:48:35 GMT -5 captbob said:

Your fire pits are in a whole different class from what barrel boy is selling. I seriously doubt that his seemingly endless barrel supply is drawing from your customer base.

agreed - burn barrels do not equate to fire pits. Anyone searching for an actual fire pit should find your ad easily (as long as it's on the first page). Those few just browsing might more likely to miss it.

But my 2c, throw another adjective on your listing title to distinguish it, like Elegant Fire Pits, or High End, Commercial, Heavy Duty, Lifetime, something to help distinguish even more from the burn barrel. - Do you have any pictures from the ones that have gone to restaurant locales?

captbob
no longer being taken for granite

St. Pete FL

Member since December 2007
Posts: 8,186

Having an ad battle on Craig's list Nov 3, 2015 11:25:10 GMT -5 jamesp likes this

Quote

Post by captbob on Nov 3, 2015 11:25:10 GMT -5

Another thought on the way out the door is your lack of use of Key Words.

Folks search craigslist (like on eBay) using specific words for their search. The word they use may bring up items unrelated to their search, but this can be used to your advantage.

You are woefully lacking in your use of these words to bring your fire pits up in searches.

It illustrate, type in "drain plug" in the Atlanta craigslist. Your fire pits are there!

But, type in "patio", "backyard", "grill" "cook out" - heck, the list is endless - and you don't show up.

Put on your thinking cap while puttering around and come up with words that even kinda relate to what you are selling. Adding 10 (whatever) Key Words to your listings could easily double or triple your exposure.

Gotta run... thinking cap on!

Dogs are unlimited lines of joyful credit with a payment that comes due all at once.

captbob no longer being taken for granite St. Pete FL Member since December 2007 Posts: 8,186	Having an ad battle on Craig's list Nov 3, 2015 11:26:41 GMT -5 jamesp likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by captbob on Nov 3, 2015 11:26:41 GMT -5 oregon and I were typing at the same time (I type slow!!) But he is saying exactly my thought. Great minds!
	Dogs are unlimited lines of joyful credit with a payment that comes due all at once.

captbob
no longer being taken for granite

St. Pete FL

Member since December 2007
Posts: 8,186

Having an ad battle on Craig's list Nov 3, 2015 13:04:57 GMT -5 jamesp likes this

Quote

Post by captbob on Nov 3, 2015 13:04:57 GMT -5

unrefined thoughts from the notepad...

Show grill grate option for cooking on, explain drain plug (some won't think of rain filling the bowl up), appeal to the "housewife" type buyer more. You need to stress "rustic" and "pretty".

Your lid idea is a HUGE plus! It's not even shown in your ad. Emphasize that option for creating a table when not in use and show pictures of your fire bowls with a cover on and plants (whatever) "decorating" the top.

Ask your wife what would make her want one. Many buyers don't have acreage - average suburban wife unit will have to see this out her kitchen window on a daily basis.

So it is used a couple / few times a month, but must be seen daily.
Double function as a table would sure help.

Does the rust wear off? Like if someone sat on this, would it get on their clothes? Making it a seat or bench by adding a (customer supplied) cushion on the lid would be good IF the rust doesn't come off.

Must sell (appeal) to women before Joe Average is going to be allowed to bring home.

Explain that the lid also keeps rain out and maybe even show how sturdy the fire pit is with your dog picture - a couple dogs ON TOP of the cover would be way cool.

If lids are expensive, is there a less expensive option you could offer?

offhand thought: do you need to add any kind of safety disclaimer?
Like: this fire pit gets freakin' HOT you moron. Keep children, pets and stupid people away when in use and for several hours after use.

Some sneaking in key words:

Whether enjoying quiet time relaxing on your lawn furniture with family and friends in the backyard around a crackling fire, or roasting marshmallows and making s'mores on the patio with your children or grandchildren, this custom, handmade fire pit is sure to add fun to your party.

Optional stainless steel grill grate available if you are interested in using your fire pit for grilling or outdoor cooking. Perfect for your weekend barbecue or even preparing a meal using your Dutch Oven should the power go out. No expensive propane required.

MANY more Key Word options you could use, but I would sure add several to your ad.

Dogs are unlimited lines of joyful credit with a payment that comes due all at once.

jamesp
Cave Dweller

Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,612

Having an ad battle on Craig's list Nov 3, 2015 13:07:54 GMT -5

Quote

Post by jamesp on Nov 3, 2015 13:07:54 GMT -5

Quick retort, anxious to look at your suggestions captbob and oregon when back in house tonight.

Very interested in y'all 's tips.

Etsy analytics give counts on search of key words.

'fire pit' and 'fire pits' is lion share of searches. So I made the listing title clean and based on only two key est words.

Search Engines: Etsy Google Others

Veiws:

fire pit 1,645
fire pits 252
outdoor fire pit 180
fire bowl 156
outdoor fire bowl 113
metal fire pit 76
fire pit bowl 33

They just better search 'fire pit(s)' or they are Losers.

Yes, I have to update ad regularly. I made about 50 ads all the same in my account so I can do a revolving door post.
Made a file of 14 photos dedicated to Craig's List ad to expedite reposting.

Last Edit: Nov 3, 2015 13:15:16 GMT -5 by jamesp

captbob
no longer being taken for granite

St. Pete FL

Member since December 2007
Posts: 8,186

Having an ad battle on Craig's list Nov 3, 2015 14:49:59 GMT -5 rockpickerforever, jamesp, and 1 more like this

Quote

Post by captbob on Nov 3, 2015 14:49:59 GMT -5

Having trouble coming up with that amazing yet unique Birthday, Anniversary or Christmas gift? How about a present that surely won't get packed away in a closet or the garage! A true focal point of memorable outdoor gatherings with family and friends for years to come.

You just added folks searching:

Birthday
Anniversary
Christmas

gift
present

closet
garage

outdoor

AND, appealed to the losers that didn't type Fire Pit into the search area, yet are seeking ways to unite their dysfunctional families or attract their equally loser friends to come over!

win win

You want views by people that didn't even know that they wanted / need a fire pit until they saw your ad.

The picture with the fire is a very eye catching shot. Maybe good as your first picture?

You have more room in your title space - Custom or Rustic or Hand Crafted may help?

Or totally revamp title:

Custom Made Fire Pit - NOT some POS 55 Gal barrel cut in half by some inbred yankee lover up in Woodstock

be creative!

just sayin'...

Dogs are unlimited lines of joyful credit with a payment that comes due all at once.

rockpickerforever
In Memoriam

RIP Jean Bradley, you are forever loved

Member since July 2011
Posts: 12,069

Having an ad battle on Craig's list Nov 3, 2015 15:34:04 GMT -5 Pat and jamesp like this

Quote

Post by rockpickerforever on Nov 3, 2015 15:34:04 GMT -5

Nov 3, 2015 13:07:54 GMT -5 jamesp said:

Quick retort, anxious to look at your suggestions captbob and oregon when back in house tonight.

Very interested in y'all 's tips.

Etsy analytics give counts on search of key words.

'fire pit' and 'fire pits' is lion share of searches. So I made the listing title clean and based on only two key est words.

Search Engines: Etsy Google Others

Veiws:

fire pit 1,645
fire pits 252
outdoor fire pit 180
fire bowl 156
outdoor fire bowl 113
metal fire pit 76
fire pit bowl 33

They just better search 'fire pit(s)' or they are Losers.

Yes, I have to update ad regularly. I made about 50 ads all the same in my account so I can do a revolving door post.
Made a file of 14 photos dedicated to Craig's List ad to expedite reposting.

James, listen to captbob. He is a genius! If you do what he says, I guarantee your sales will at least triple! (Are ya ready for that? Could be a good thing ($$$) or a bad thing (busting your butt). Your decision.

(Maybe leave off the "inbred Yankee lover comment," so as not to alienate those folks. They got money, too, ya know... Just sayin')

Forty years of fur children

mohs In Memoriam RIP mohstly Member since January 2009 Posts: 19,412	Having an ad battle on Craig's list Nov 3, 2015 19:25:25 GMT -5 jamesp likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by mohs on Nov 3, 2015 19:25:25 GMT -5 just tell that Woodstock dude that quantity is no substitute for quality....
	dazagneiss

mohs
In Memoriam

RIP mohstly

Member since January 2009
Posts: 19,412

Having an ad battle on Craig's list Nov 3, 2015 19:31:59 GMT -5 jamesp likes this

Quote

Post by mohs on Nov 3, 2015 19:31:59 GMT -5

plus you could find some young whippersnapper geek
that's in front of a mobile device
to monitor Craiglist
and keep posting a single ad,
bringing your fire pits to the top of the page
every time dudley over posts

dazagneiss

oregon
has rocks in the head

gem lap trim saw

Member since August 2015
Posts: 669

Having an ad battle on Craig's list Nov 3, 2015 19:37:46 GMT -5 jamesp and snowmom like this

Quote

Post by oregon on Nov 3, 2015 19:37:46 GMT -5

Nov 3, 2015 13:07:54 GMT -5 jamesp said:

Etsy analytics give counts on search of key words.

Veiws:

fire pit 1,645
fire pits 252
outdoor fire pit 180
fire bowl 156
outdoor fire bowl 113
metal fire pit 76
fire pit bowl 33

Everything is marketing. Art, business, politics, I even tell the kids partial credit on their exams is really marketing.
Hate it but so it is, we're human. You don't have to be a great artist to be successful on etsy or elsewhere, but you do need successful marketing.

My take on that table above is: Cool, as long as I have fire pit in the title/listing (search area) my ad will show up. The next trick is getting someone to click on your ad rather than others. Showing up high in the search results is a bonus, on CL it's just chronological? Not sure how Etsy default ranks listings. Also CL the default searches the entire ad, not just the titles.

The Atlanta CL link now has a 'luxury' fire pit listed... That caches eyes (mine) much more than a list of long numbered sizes on your title. Captnbob has a long list of great suggestions. I would tighten up the title(s), loose some of your more cluttered pictures, show the features he mentions, expand your description a bit. Really - if you have some pictures in commercial settings in action, that'd give you huge credibility points...

Which reminds me, people have been studying marketing for a long time, and they know what works. Every ad you see is tugging at basic instincts, some in devious ways (ever wonder why so many Amazon ads say "Hurry, only a few Left!"?). Here's an old Scientific American article I like... digitalintelligencetoday.com/documents/CialdiniSciAmerican_01.pdf

2c...

Deleted Deleted Member Member since January 1970 Posts: 0	Having an ad battle on Craig's list Nov 3, 2015 19:50:18 GMT -5 via mobile jamesp likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 19:50:18 GMT -5 I'd drive up there and stuff his ass in one of his barrels.lol.like everyone said your stuff is in a class of its own. Dave

jamesp
Cave Dweller

Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,612

Having an ad battle on Craig's list Nov 4, 2015 5:14:56 GMT -5 snowmom likes this

Quote

Post by jamesp on Nov 4, 2015 5:14:56 GMT -5

Graciously thanking you guys for the input.
No doubt, improvements are needed.
Table tops created a substantial increase in sales starting 3 months ago.
I serve a lot of attention to the customers when they visit to pick up.
Carefully listening to how they found me and why they felt comfortable purchasing from me.
A large percentage is word of mouth.

Have been a bit cautious about changing the Craig's List ad title because word of mouth business.
People referring others to the short title on Craig's List.

Since Craig's List allows multiple ads I can keep the slim and trim ad for word of mouth situations.
And create another ad that is based on key words and appeal but keeping the range of sizes in numerical form in the title so they know it is likely the same seller.

Still in infancy. Oddly, a purchase of 6000 pounds of scrap table tops 4 months ago set things on fire.
Well, they were purchased very cheap, and I had to find a supplier that would make them at an affordable price for the future.
That took a long time in itself. Selling out of some sizes of table tops quickly.
Figuring out which sizes to have made and meeting minimum QTY's till I figure what I need to stock.
Even had an oversea container quote(don't tell).
Found a back yard guy to make them affordably for resale, took forever to find him. He has two rag tag $300,000 machines to make them with(required).

Focusing on who and why people are buying them-70-80% are (kid) fathers wanting to burn one with the kids in the backyard.
The other 20% are about ambiance. Advertised as 'fire pit', should appeal to all types...the family backyard burners are the majority buying mine.
Atlanta a giant suburbia, lots of kids, so appeal to the family unit should be considered a serious focus. A big market.

I have a serious competitor that makes 'art' pits not 15 miles away that appeals to the wilder crowd. We are in harmony.
I do the bone stock conservative simple pits, and he does the wild things. A lot of customers have talked to him before they buy from me.
He is a very active carny, and likes to do the festival circuit. And appeals to that crowd.
So I have some 'restrictions', and have no interest in moving fire pits all over the country doing art festivals.
I think I can make 4 fire pits in the time it takes him to make 1 pit, and he sells them for about 40% higher price. I think he enjoys the bravado of his fancy pits.
Have had clients attempt to commission him to make a basic unit and he seemed disinterested. Good for me.

Sorry to go into such detail, but it may help explain the situation better. Because the market is complicated and must be scrutinized.
And a competitor in this situation is in a sort a partner.

A symbiotic relationship with a competitor paid dividends for 25 years in the plant biz.
I grew hardy plants and Florida grew tropical plants(better than I could) and the gadget supplier stocked hard goods.
I approached my customers and my hand picked best Florida tropical plant supplier and worked a deal.
I would refer my large Atlanta base of customers to the Florida grower for tropicals and I would supply the hardy plants.
That team work ran all the serious competition out of Atlanta. And the Florida guy about kissed my butt for years to this day.
Same with the hard goods supplier based here in Atlanta. I referred him and he referred me. It was even more effective for my biz than the tropical plant supplier.
Mom and Pop(our clients) blew the box stores out of the water. Victory for all. And all three of us still in business today.

jamesp
Cave Dweller

Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,612

Having an ad battle on Craig's list Nov 4, 2015 5:41:15 GMT -5 snowmom likes this

Quote

Post by jamesp on Nov 4, 2015 5:41:15 GMT -5

No doubt, improvements needed in the marketing thru key word/descriptions needed.
Only after the recent wave of customers have I learned what market to appeal to. And why there is a market.

Price point-too important, must be efficient in manufacturing techniques, purchase of raw materials

Walmart and Home Depot pits-deterioration of such 'mass sold' pits in the past one to two years has created a huge market.
Those purchasing such pits has created a wave of 'fire pit addicted' customers looking for heavy duty pits.
The box stores did me a great service by marketing such junk. 3 out of 4 customers looking for a replacement that will last.
Words relating to longevity may be #1 key word.

jamesp
Cave Dweller

Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,612

Having an ad battle on Craig's list Nov 4, 2015 5:48:28 GMT -5 snowmom likes this

Quote

Post by jamesp on Nov 4, 2015 5:48:28 GMT -5

This is an article in 'Atlanta Magazine'. Features my small pit. Came out 4 days ago. A center cover page costing $4000/month to rent. Free for me.
Betcha I get more sales off of a free Craig's List ad. They listed my contact info. Will see.