jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 7, 2015 0:53:11 GMT -5
While living in ND,we had deer (whitetail) in our yard all the time. The bucks were racking my one young tree and debarking it something serious!!!!! I did everything I could to keep the bucks away from that tree! Finally an oldtimer told me to pee on the tree and the local area for about a week!! Heck it was a nice tree,so yes,that's what I did and my boys too...(It worked) The buck left it alone the rest of its time.. As it grew bigger,the scares are still on the tree,but its a nice 40 footer with history..... They do not care for human scents. Have heard that humans urinating on his scrapes can really upset them. Keeping their girlfriends away. Ruining his bachelor's pad LOL. Observed snorting and grunting when finding such in their scrape. Sometimes there are 50 scrapes on a 1/4 mile trip along the trails in the woods. An interesting animal. They love rubbing the bamboo. Northern deer push so hard they dig a ditch pushing on a tree, rarely see that down here. |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 7, 2015 0:55:36 GMT -5
Yep, I've observed the same thing. Whitetail have a very small home range and the trees they use for scrapes have to be protected or they will debark them year after year. We had blacktail at our ranch in Commiefornia and they might rub a bit when removing their velvet but you seldom saw scrapes on the ranch as much as with whitetail. I do believe that the blacktail seemed more aggressive but were way less tame or numerous so not as dangerous as these dang whitetail here in Texas. Last census we had about 1100 here on the ranch so you have to literally wade through the dang things wherever you go....Mel Why so many Mel ? Do you sell them ? Is a blacktail a native deer ? |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 7, 2015 1:39:45 GMT -5
That is the best way. Not only is it more accurate, but a buck in the hand is worth two in the bush.  About the only time I see those older bucks 1Mark K is when 4-6 does are being chased or corralled by an older buck during rut. And those sightings are rare. Will move that camera to the deeper woods where they may be hanging out. Woods are 5-10 year clear cuts around me for the most part. Real thick brush, deer very shy. |
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Dec 7, 2015 7:52:50 GMT -5
James, We have so many whitetail because of several factors 1. We are an association/ membership run "no shoot/hunt" ranch. 2. Texas law requires any deer netted be processed and donated to charity ( we can eat some ourselves but most members are tired of venison). This requirement means each deer we net to remove costs the association about $75 up and we have to pay to trap too. We dropped almost 40K couple of years ago and trapped 330 deer. Did not even dent the population because of reason #3, we are low fenced. When we trap deer, new ones just come over the ranch exterior perimeter fences. Would cost half a million to high fence now days.
So, basically, we are overpopulated with whitetail because we cannot afford to have a proper control program. As a biologist this offends me but that's the way it goes when the ranch membership votes the way they do.
Re the blacktail deer. At our old Commiefornia ranch we had all native deer. Our blacktail though, were much larger than coast range blacktail which were whitetail in size. Probably a bit of mule deer influence in the Sierra Nevada Range.....Mel
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 7, 2015 9:49:48 GMT -5
I understand the blacktail deer arrangement. But am puzzled about an over population situation. As long as the deer are healthy then heavy population is no problem. You mentioned a control program and how the situation offends you. Just curious Sabre52. I know they control population here by simply allowing larger bag limits for does to the 500,000 hunters here in Georgia. In the past 20 years, the middle section of Georgia called the (clay soiled) piedmont has had constantly rising bag limits because of the fine habitat. Coastal and mountain populations much smaller/poorer habitat. Bag limits controlled proportionately. 168 counties here, each county(or group in given habitat) maintains counts and has it's own bag limit for the most part. Indicators such as browse being eaten to nothing as high as the deer can reach in late winter months is a sign of overpopulation. |
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on Dec 7, 2015 10:29:41 GMT -5
Whitetail deer population in ND and MT will get over crowded once in a great while,but it seems nature takes over and brings in "Blue Tongue" and 1000's die off and the deer rebuild their herds again...
ND controls their W/T herds by selling more doe tags per person on high populated herd areas...Usually could get five per person (that's a lot of meat),whitetail are big animals in the northern states...
As for Blacktail deer here in western Oregon,I bet I have only seen 20 deer (B/T) in the five years here,compared to seeing 200 (W/T) a day in ND and or (30-40) W/T and Mulies in MT....
They don't call the B/T deer the grey ghost for nothing... That's why I gave up hunting here...
Better off to head off to Montana and hunt with my brothers...
As for antler size and development,I use to shed hunt and sell the antlers I found,made great money doing it!! I found that certain areas,made for bigger racks than other areas...
Not as thick,stickily etc etc.... Some areas would boost huge antlers that would make an average guy drool!!
I have a set of sheds on the wall from a five year old (Montana valley area)it's a 163 1/3 size,huge W/T !!!
Than from the same area,in the hills,I have a Mule deer on the wall,antlers not as thick or wide,but with bone everywhere on its head a 5x10....(Harvested and shot by myself)
North Dakota was about the same way with sheds also....Some years it was more fun to shed hunt than it was to game hunt....LOL
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 7, 2015 11:24:45 GMT -5
The squirrels make our sheds disappear fossilman. Guess they chew on them to sharpen their teeth. Add thickest brush and sheds are hard to find. Yes, the blue tongue is a problem here. It is humane to kill them down to healthy populations. Blue tongue an agonizing death. The wardens do thin herds using a light at night. Local warden asks me to kill as many as I can since I have a year round permit, but that is a nasty job. Too much under hunted private land around me. Population close by a problem. And hunting is in decline, new generation different folks. |
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Mark K
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Post by Mark K on Dec 7, 2015 16:54:27 GMT -5
The big, smart bucks run the tiny trails you probably don't even realize are there. The big obvious trails are used mostly by doe and young bucks. The buck trails often parallel the doe trails, but in the heavy stuff.
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Dec 7, 2015 17:56:57 GMT -5
James, What bothers me is the extreme overpopulation ( about one deer per 2 acres when one per 8 acres is better) has created extreme overbrowsing. The entire ranch has a six foot browse line and almost no edible forbs last even a little while. As a wildlife biologist, I want the range to support about 200-300 deer so the range remains healthy and the deer healthy and big. The blackbuck and cattle are cash crops for us too and the deer do compete with them a bit. The only reason our deer do not starve is folks like me spend thousands of dollars per year on supplemental feed. When we don't feed we haul starved critters all year long and I hate watching animals starve. I actually quit my position on the Range and Wildlife advisory group because folks will not listen to reason re wildlife issues but would rather, I guess, watch Bambi starve....Mel
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 8, 2015 19:40:20 GMT -5
James, What bothers me is the extreme overpopulation ( about one deer per 2 acres when one per 8 acres is better) has created extreme overbrowsing. The entire ranch has a six foot browse line and almost no edible forbs last even a little while. As a wildlife biologist, I want the range to support about 200-300 deer so the range remains healthy and the deer healthy and big. The blackbuck and cattle are cash crops for us too and the deer do compete with them a bit. The only reason our deer do not starve is folks like me spend thousands of dollars per year on supplemental feed. When we don't feed we haul starved critters all year long and I hate watching animals starve. I actually quit my position on the Range and Wildlife advisory group because folks will not listen to reason re wildlife issues but would rather, I guess, watch Bambi starve....Mel That sounds severe. Not that bad out this way. The timber companies are constantly harvesting timber creating great browse. From stumpage and ground exposed to the sun growing new browse. They still manage to overpopulate. Central and west Texas does look a bit sterile to support heavy densities like what you describe. At that feed rate those rascals must get tame. Crop deer around here get much bolder. The lack of crops and only heavy woods or timbered land around this area really creates some shy and nocturnal animals. They depend heavily on the acorn crop in winter. In the mountains they follow the acorn crop as it drops to lower altitude. Mountain deer much more susceptible to food shortages. |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 8, 2015 19:52:30 GMT -5
The big, smart bucks run the tiny trails you probably don't even realize are there. The big obvious trails are used mostly by doe and young bucks. The buck trails often parallel the doe trails, but in the heavy stuff. I think they float. The big ones rarely run when you walk up on them. They just tippy toe away, in 5 predesigned escape routes. Bucks definitely stay in the cover, almost like a different species than does. Sounds discriminatory ha |
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Dec 8, 2015 21:00:02 GMT -5
James, Tame? *L* Yep. When they shed, some of the big bucks are like puppies. Follow you around and even push their heads up to be scratched. They will mug you for a corn tortilla. Still have to watch them as they can get rough and I never mess with them after the velvet is gone. Some have grown up right here by the house and of course most of the tame ones have names *L*. Oddly enough, blackbuck never tame down but do learn to let you fairly close to them..Mel
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Mark K
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Post by Mark K on Dec 8, 2015 21:45:03 GMT -5
Never trust a deer. One second they are eating food out of your hand, the next they are stomping a mudhole in your ass.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 9, 2015 11:14:27 GMT -5
I hear you both, deer is a wild animal. Never trust.
The horn cycle must be when they are at their worst. The hormone cycle.
Those bucks run together most of the year like brothers. Rut season a different matter.
They hang out together after rut but before shedding. But when heaven's scent is in the air they are enemies. Kind of a hint about the power of the opposite sex LOL.
Anything is fair in love and war.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Dec 9, 2015 11:18:27 GMT -5
Ha! Don't see them so often here. Maybe a good thing!
Did see some wapiti (elk) on a trip through Yellowstone one October. Yes, it was cold! Mrrockpicker walked off the road to get a picture of a bugling buck - Mistake! He got charged by it, but was not harmed. Still have the photo. In a photo album, pre-digital.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 9, 2015 13:02:52 GMT -5
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Post by rockpickerforever on Dec 9, 2015 15:00:05 GMT -5
Some shredding going on there, jamesp !
Here's a couple pics from Yellowstone, taken in Oct 1980. What is that, 35 years? Am I that old??? Dang... 
Not a nice doggie... Taken with a long lens, on the run. 
Yellowstone, elk, buffalo - STAY IN THE CAR! They are wild animals! No photo is worth your @ss!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 9, 2015 18:53:27 GMT -5
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Post by rockpickerforever on Dec 9, 2015 19:08:28 GMT -5
James, I may have been young, but I wasn't stupid, lol. I have great respect for the wild animals, and the havoc they can wreak on puny humans!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 9, 2015 20:34:46 GMT -5
James, I may have been young, but I wasn't stupid, lol. I have great respect for the wild animals, and the havoc they can wreak on puny humans! |
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